AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #7

[DutchTreat]

What I don't get, if KP didn't die in Belanglo forest, how stupid is it to bring the body to a forest with you phone with you and switched on. So your phone will be tied to the remains.

How could someone pull off a successfull identity fraud for years, but be pinged with a dead body.

 

[Wolfinator]

Does anyone know the history behind DJH multiple names? (holdom, Marshall, bishop)

Why the name changes? And any known dates?

I have my suspicions as to why someone would change their name so often but I think that would lead me to subjudice topics.


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[Trooper]

What I don't get, if KP didn't die in Belanglo forest, how stupid is it to bring the body to a forest with you phone with you and switched on. So your phone will be tied to the remains.

How could someone pull off a successfull identity fraud for years, but be pinged with a dead body.

because everyone has a quota of stupid. ... .. keep in mind .. until the police had a name to attach to a search for pings, no one would have ever known Holdom was in the Belanglo Forest on that day..

The ping could have remained anonymous for centuries.. it wasn't the ping that caught him.. it adds to his case, but his case doesn't rest on that ping.

 

[sleepinoz]

It wasn't that long, really.. Colleens illness was aggressive and progressing.. a year?? perhaps less?

as to the motive of the family in re-reporting Karlie as a missing person, it may have been a matter of Colleen's death, and Connie's death that halted this direction.. who knows?? the family have not said, one could guess that perhaps no one knew exactly who could report Karlie as a Missing Person now..

And they had the experience of Karlie suddenly being 'Not Missing' a real anchor in determining to put it to the police again. No doubt , they wish they had, would things have been different? who knows.. of course, both Karlie and Khandalyce were long dead while this indecision was probably going on..

Not a direct response to your post Trooper just the family looking for Karlie in general.

Makara - in the past we have been able to paraphrase from FB so I hope this is allowed.

Speaking of sleuthing a few pages ago, if you can manage to find the cache of the old FB account: Please Help find Karlie Stevenson - you will find that whoever ran that page was still posting in Aug 2013 looking for Karlie.

However, it was stated that Karlie wasn't missing but they wanted to find her. Also that a Missing Persons report that was filed came back empty - which is very sad when you see the continued pleading to find her.

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone know the history behind DJH multiple names? (holdom, Marshall, bishop)

Why the name changes? And any known dates?

I have my suspicions as to why someone would change their name so often but I think that would lead me to subjudice topics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was reminded of Adrian Bailey and his name changes, and the reasons for that, as well, Wolfers...

 

[inkpink]

Not a direct response to your post Trooper just the family looking for Karlie in general.

Makara - in the past we have been able to paraphrase from FB so I hope this is allowed.

Speaking of sleuthing a few pages ago, if you can manage to find the cache of the old FB account: Please Help find Karlie Stevenson - you will find that whoever ran that page was still posting in Aug 2013 looking for Karlie.

However, it was stated that Karlie wasn't missing but they wanted to find her. Also that a Missing Persons report that was filed came back empty - which is very sad when you see the continued pleading to find her.

That's interesting if this is referring to a 2nd missing persons report.

 

[JaneSA]

I couldn't agree more. And to me, the fact that the drug debt story isn't formally denied by police is more revealing then them telling us that the story isn't true or yet unconfirmed. And I guess some people are starting to sweat and getting more and more nervous. And police are smart for not commenting on this drug debt story. I guess they're watching and waiting for the sc.mbags to crawl from underneath their stones.

I do not think that identity theft was the motive in this case. It might even have been done in order to cover up something way bigger. And I also believe that this is way bigger than DH and HP. I think this is about drugs, cars, prostitution, sexual exploitation, possibly child , possibly some pedophile ring, money and power. And God knows what else.

I think you are right and the police are letting people sweat in anticipation that they will then rat on each other to exonerate themselves.
I agree that this is much bigger than it initially appears and involves many more people than we currently know about.
IMO it's a tangled web the police are unravelling.

 

[DutchTreat]

because everyone has a quota of stupid. ... .. keep in mind .. until the police had a name to attach to a search for pings, no one would have ever known Holdom was in the Belanglo Forest on that day..

The ping could have remained anonymous for centuries.. it wasn't the ping that caught him.. it adds to his case, but his case doesn't rest on that ping.

The body could also have been found the next day by someone walking his dog in the forest. Karlie's bank card was used a day after she died. So that is very, very 'careless'.
Combined with the phone and the bank transactions, DH could have been in jail within days.

So this doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Trooper]

That's interesting if this is referring to a 2nd missing persons report.

I have often wondered if the family went through Red Cross, or the Salvo's.. they have services, that contact the missing person and ask them to contact the family, perhaps give some assurance.. there is a huge gap between missing a person from your family, who either wants to remain 'missing' or has to remain missing due to unfortunate elements and a Missing Person in the legal and official sense.. ... and sometimes, like in this instance, the gap is fatal.

 

[sleepinoz]

That's interesting if this is referring to a 2nd missing persons report.

It's hard to tell, but I think it was the first one.

 

[sleepinoz]

I think you are right and the police are letting people sweat in anticipation that they will then rat on each other to exonerate themselves.
I agree that this is much bigger than it initially appears and involves many more people than we currently know about.
IMO it's a tangled web the police are unravelling.

I also agree that this is much bigger than what appears, however in just about every case I've seen the Police do not deny or agree to anything written in MSN unless asked during a PC and feel they should respond, or for the reason of Public Safety - hence the mention of the Serial Killer.

 

[JaneSA]

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Karlie was murdered by more than one killer.
Being hunted down in the woods, being killed as an example of what happens to people who want to get out, flee, or do not listen (cooperate).

Why did she go to Canberra? If Khandalyce was not with Karlie in Canberra, what was the reason for that? Who did they stay with? Why was DH there? How did DH get there? With Karlie, or in a different way? Who else's phone was pinged in the Belanglo Forest on december 14-15th? I do NOT think they were there for some romantic holiday. I'm still not even convinced that they were romantically involved.

Interesting, Dutch.
I am not convinced they were romantically involved either.
I am 100% convinced Karlie and HP were best friends though; which is mainly why I don't see Karlie suddenly getting romantically involved with DH straight after after tragedy.

 

[Panda]

These dichotomies trouble me greatly and to me, make no sense.

Mentally deranged enough to kill 2 people with extreme violence VS controlled enough to keep quiet about it for 7 years
Out of control murders VS careful concealment of remains
Crazed killing VS long-running, well planned financial fraud

These don't align at all.
Yet we know the facts to the right are correct.
So we have to question the facts on the left.

I think we are looking at a group, not an individual; planned executions not rage; prosaic motive, not emotionally complex motive.

I don't know any more than anyone else here about Holdom, but if the reports of his personality are true and he is really just an overgrown child, while he may well be involved, I can't see him being either the main protagonist of the murders or the person who has covered them up and mislead/misdirected people for 7 years.

Of course, it is always possible he is a criminal mastermind who has cunningly hidden behind the facade of a simpleton for 40 years, but I doubt it based on what we know of his lifestyle.

With the utmost respect Jane, but ...

"controlled enough to keep quiet about it for 7 years". You have more chance of a sole operator, or a couple who have history keeping it quiet than a group. The more people involved, the more they talk, the more gets leaked. I don't think there was that much "control" involved, in any case.

"careful concealment of remains". They weren't that carefully concealed in my opinion. Karlie's body was found in about 18 months from when she was murdered. And it's quite possible that Khandalyce was just kept because whoever killed her couldn't think what to do with her remains, or they were quite secure where they were. When they were found in the suitcase, everything started to unravel quite quickly. Nothing careful about it in my view.

"well planned financial fraud". I wouldn't say it was well planned at all. If it was well planned, they wouldn't have left a trace. The audacity of fronting up to Centrelink, the Credit Union, all the transactions, quite frankly, it was only a matter of time before they would be found out.

You may be right - it could be a group, but I personally lean towards a single person with the possible involvement of a partner, ex partner or friend who had history with the offender (for the fraud), and the same again with the possibility of a family member who helped cover it up (I only say that because of the birth certificate of Khandalyce's that was found by police. I'm not saying she was specifically involved, but may have had knowledge after the event). On the evidence so far, I can't see the way clear to think in terms of highly organised crime groups. But I've been wrong before ...

7 years isn't really that great for getting away with murder. In fact, it's not much time at all.

 

[Trooper]

The body could also have been found the next day by someone walking his dog in the forest. Karlie's bank card was used a day after she died. So that is very, very 'careless'.
Combined with the phone and the bank transactions, DH could have been in jail within days.

So this doesn't make sense to me.

yes.. it is careless and yes the body could have been found, and yes, using the card was more than careless it was terrifically risky..... but the thing is, luck just isn't for you or me. Murderers can be famously careless and still get away with it for years.. its a matter of so many other factors.. no body , in fact did walk their dog in the forest in that spot.. no one complained about Karlie's money going in and out of her account.... ringing the family and impersonating Karlie worked a real treat, it not only kept the scam going , but it kept Karlie off the Officially Missing list ,.. along with Khandalyce..

Luck has no morals at all.

 

[inkpink]

I have often wondered if the family went through Red Cross, or the Salvo's.. they have services, that contact the missing person and ask them to contact the family, perhaps give some assurance.. there is a huge gap between missing a person from your family, who either wants to remain 'missing' or has to remain missing due to unfortunate elements and a Missing Person in the legal and official sense.. ... and sometimes, like in this instance, the gap is fatal.

Yes, good thinking 99!

 

[sleepinoz]

The body could also have been found the next day by someone walking his dog in the forest. Karlie's bank card was used a day after she died. So that is very, very 'careless'.
Combined with the phone and the bank transactions, DH could have been in jail within days.

So this doesn't make sense to me.

I think at that time people didn't just go walking in Belangalo with their dogs - besides the fact that there isn't a lot of people live in the area there are too many reminders of Milat.

 

[DutchTreat]

yes.. it is careless and yes the body could have been found, and yes, using the card was more than careless it was terrifically risky..... but the thing is, luck just isn't for you or me. Murderers can be famously careless and still get away with it for years.. its a matter of so many other factors.. no body , in fact did walk their dog in the forest in that spot.. no one complained about Karlie's money going in and out of her account.... ringing the family and impersonating Karlie worked a real treat, it not only kept the scam going , but it kept Karlie off the Officially Missing list ,.. along with Khandalyce..

Luck has no morals at all.

:doh: if the killer would assume the body wouldn't be discovered any time soon (hence the choice of a creepy forest), using the bank card the very next day and leaving an electronic trail back to Adelaide ('visiting her friend HP') would make perfect sense.

Like 'yeah Karlie went to Canberra, but she was back in Adelaide on December 22.'

- Rabbit Photo/Strandbag, Mount Gambier, SA, on November 17, 2008
- ATM withdrawal, Kippax Fair, Canberra, on November 24, 2008
- Transaction at Charnwood, Canberra on December 16, 2008
- Transaction at Deakin, Canberra, on December 19, 2008
- Transaction at BP OTR, Broadview, on December 22, 2008
- Transaction at Coober Pedy, SA, on January 6, 2009
- EFTPOS purchase from Mobil, Alice Springs, on January 7, 2009
- ATM withdrawal at Broadview on January 10, 2009.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29920242/khandalyce-was-kept-alive-after-mother-karlies-murder/

 

[Panda]

I think at that time people didn't just go walking in Belangalo with their dogs - besides the fact that there isn't a lot of people live in the area there are too many reminders of Milat.

Not necessarily sleepy. Belanglo, if anything, has become somewhat of an attraction because of Milat. It is quite a popular camping/4WD spot, especially in summer. I can't say I've seen people walking dogs in Belanglo myself. I wouldn't say it's inconceivable though, Belanglo is not far from a couple of towns and an ideal place to take the dogs for a bit of a run for those who put their dogs in the car and go off somewhere to give them some decent space to run around.

 

[Trooper]

I think at that time people didn't just go walking in Belangalo with their dogs - besides the fact that there isn't a lot of people live in the area there are too many reminders of Milat.

I don't think any selfrespecting Au dog will have a bar of a 'walk in the Belanglo Forest'.. I was travelling with my dog , down the Hume Freeway and she would rather hold on than get out near Belanglo...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yup. Thanks, Jane.

'Superintendent Bray said Karlie left Alice Springs in 2008 with her daughter to travel and find work.

Police believe they also travelled to Darwin, Adelaide and throughout the Murray and Riverland districts.

"Karlie and Khandalyce travelled extensively from Darwin through central Australia, Adelaide, probably through Victoria, Canberra and the Riverland," Superintendent Bray said.

"So what we need is friends and associates to come forward."

He asked owners of motels, hotels and caravan parks to check their records to see if the mother and daughter stayed at their business anytime since 2006.'

Says they 'left' The Alice in 2008. Permanently? Temporarily?

Before that Karlie and Khandalyce traveled from 2006-2008? On the road before(?), since(?) Khandalyce was born? Who with? Not with a tiny baby and working surely?

Oh cr*p! Here we go again. Fruit picking, drag racing, etc. Was that question ever settled?

Not a well constructed article; chronologically. MSM is starting to give me the pip!

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgu...ved=0ahUKEwjd0sWkxJ7JAhWHYA4KHY1ZCeEQ9QEIIzAC

Link shows a pic of little Khandalyce (with bottle), <modsnip> So, if you are able to estimate the toddler's age - at that time Khandalyce seemingly didn't travel with Karlie. Maybe, that helps to create the timeline a bit more.