AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Trooper]

Do you think the main purpose is for financial gain or a "cover/proof of life" scenario or behind the third door option 3 .... Determining murdering psychos motives for ID theft is like trying to herd cats. Hopeless and futile.

I still find it hard to calm my anger when I think of the call to the mother... Cold cold cold blood.




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I think it is a combination of all those factors.. you would have to say the overriding compulsion would be to hide the crime, and hide one's involvement in it, that would be an immediate impulse.. and to do that, identity theft would have to be part of the process.. Elliot Coulson, who , you may recall was part of Q @ A the other night, after murdering his girlfriend , used her card to book himself a ticket to QLD... theft of money or identity theft? inextricably entwined, I don't think those two elements can be separated.. John Sharpe, who murdered his wife, then murdered his little daughter with a spear gun, used his wife's bankcard and credit card .. was he short of money or to keep the myth of Anna being still alive? . two motives, too entwined to separate, is how I see it.

Bankcard fraud is not difficult.. we know this because the stupidest people seem to do it with ease.. its just another temptation, and while Snowtown was , I suppose , the benchmark people use to measure this, Bunting and Company 's main motive was punishment.. the card fraud was handy and successful,but not the driving force, according to Bunting, but he is a congenital liar, so... and it's awful to think that 16 years on from Snowtown , it is still easy to do.

 

[Trooper]

I don't see the call to Colleen, Karlie's mother, as having money as the driver.. I think it was to keep Colleen from posting that official Missing Persons request... although, I think that Colleen had already done that, which is what provoked the phone call to her from the female impersonator. There could be no other reason to run such a hell of a risk.. money alone wouldn't account for that, considering they were smoothly going about withdrawing money from Karlie's account without hindrance.

As it happened, and luckily , Colleen , ill and dying, and knowing she was dying was vulnerable to this call , and it has always seemed to me that she would have offered the money , she wouldn't have needed to be asked, but perhaps I project my own mother here. That they accepted the money and promptly withdrew it is about as cold as it gets.. I always see in my 'cosmic eye', to borrow a phrase, the female impersonator grinning with delight at Colleens offer. ' yes , mum , thanks,.'...

Hours of rehearsal must have gone into that call. days, weeks... it had to be precise and absolutely foolproof, both of their lives depended on it. Once Karlie was officially removed from the Missing Persons list, and bloody quickly, too, easier breaths could be drawn. Every hour Karlie was on that list could have seen some nosy and interfering policeman deciding to check on Karlie's bank account, or check Karlie's phone, or god help us all, even ring Karlie's phone number.

But no. All went well. The scam worked, the circus carried on.

Thank God Colleen died not knowing she had spoken not to Karlie but to her daughters murderers accomplice.

 

[Wolfinator]

Grrrrr. That proof of life phone call/s...


My niece pretends to be her mother and asks me questions via SMS to sleuth birthday surprises etc. I generally know it's her from the grammar or the nature of the question. I always send an identifying question back about old times that only my sister would know. If only...

But I guess by then the damage was well and truly done.


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[Kouriouskell]

yes , I've always liked this theory as well Jane .

What a great photo to find, Dutchtreat

Just to clarify my "burglar" theory; it was all I could come up with to explain why the case containing the bones was left where it was, on the roadside.
Without that case being found and the remains nearby, neither Karlie or Khandalyce would ever have been identified. Indeed, nobody other than the killer(s) would even know they were dead.

What I could never understand or give credence to, from the beginning of this case, was the idea that the Wynarka suitcase was either deliberately or carelessly left on the roadside by someone who knew what was in it.

It seemed highly unlikely to me that even the dumbest criminal would leave bones and identifying evidence together in a public place after keeping them so well hidden for 7 years, and I don't think the other explanation of "a guilty conscience that wants to be exposed" really occurs in real life.

Disposing of the Wynarka suitcase in a way that nobody would ever connect the clothes, bones and murder would have been incredibly simple and involve nothing more than tipping out the contents in various locations up a dirt road somewhere.
For that reason, it was my opinion that whoever left the case on the roadside at Wynarka did not know what was in it. Hence my theory that it was an item from a shed theft, dumped when it was obvious it contained nothing valuable.

But there was another great theory posted here a while back, and my apologies for being unable to remember who posted it, that linked it to the roadworks.
I thought that was brilliant!

As I recall, the theory was that someone driving late at night with the suitcase (and knowing the contents) saw the flashing lights of roadworks ahead and thought it may be police. So they pulled over and dropped the case in the scrub.

As I say, I thought that was a very clever idea and one that could possibly also tie in with the idea of suitcase-man out searching for it to retrieve it.

 

[Trooper]

It is interesting ( to me, at least ) that Karlie had a combination of types of Identity theft and keycard theft committed against her after her death... I don't know how often this happens, not very often, I suspect.. I cant think of another murder where fronting up to Centrelink ( as opposed to just 'ringing in ' or 'online responses' ) and a bank, in person, claiming to be the dead person happened, and was successful. Maybe others might know...

• Lost / stolen – transactions made on a card that has been lost by
or stolen from the rightful owner. ( this happened when her card was used almost immediately after her death, I think 2 days after and continuing.. )

• Never received – transactions made on a card that was stolen before
it was received by the rightful owner. ( this happened when the female impersonator went to the bank to give Karlie's details when the bank changed it's corporate workings and the account was set up in the new banks name )

• Fraudulent application – transactions made on a card where the
account was established using someone else’s identity or other
false information. (this happened when the female impersonator fronted up to Centrelink claiming to be Karlie ( false information ) and so continuing the Gov. payments to a false entity. )

 

[Wolfinator]

It is interesting ( to me, at least ) that Karlie had a combination of types of Identity theft and keycard theft committed against her after her death... I don't know how often this happens, not very often, I suspect.. I cant think of another murder where fronting up to Centrelink ( as opposed to just 'ringing in ' or 'online responses' ) and a bank, in person, claiming to be the dead person happened, and was successful. Maybe others might know...

• Lost / stolen – transactions made on a card that has been lost by
or stolen from the rightful owner. ( this happened when her card was used almost immediately after her death, I think 2 days after and continuing.. )

• Never received – transactions made on a card that was stolen before
it was received by the rightful owner. ( this happened when the female impersonator went to the bank to give Karlie's details when the bank changed it's corporate workings and the account was set up in the new banks name )

• Fraudulent application – transactions made on a card where the
account was established using someone else’s identity or other
false information. (this happened when the female impersonator fronted up to Centrelink claiming to be Karlie ( false information ) and so continuing the Gov. payments to a false entity. )

Don't forget the ABNs. We know of Karlie's pre-death accounts. I think the police will unveil myriad fraudulently created accounts, credit/loan accounts (defaulted), fuel cards etc. etc. I think Karlie's ATM card will be the tip of the iceberg.


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[Trooper]

and it's just occurred to me that Craig Meffert and the Snowtown victims were on a different kind of pension than Karlie, they were on the Disability one, which does not require the regular front up to Centrelink, at least as far as I can ascertain. Craig's murderers , apparently, never got the call-in, or if they did, it may have only required a phone call, not a personal appearance.. ditto the Snowtown victims.. Their deaths didn't require the impersonation aspect that Karlie's demanded. .....it could be dealt with electronically.. but not Karlie's. At some point, A Karlie Pearce-Stevenson would have to materialise at Centrelink. In the flesh. Bearing the appearance of someone of the age of Karlie, at the very least.

And when this someone, this female impersonator is on trial, we will see either (a )the same relentless determination and sense of entitlement it took to perform these antics, the same utter fearlessness and capacity to be persuasive under enormous pressure, or (b) a fabricated air of helplessness and hopelessness allied with a touching air of the naïve and possibly a bit of simple housewifery added in..

I look forward to it, either way.

 

[Trooper]

Don't forget the ABNs. We know of Karlie's pre-death accounts. I think the police will unveil myriad fraudulently created accounts, credit/loan accounts (defaulted), fuel cards etc. etc. I think Karlie's ATM card will be the tip of the iceberg.


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oh hell yes, the ABN's.. I cant find anything where these buggers profited from the ABN's in her name, except for one tiny hint, according to the police , somebody's wages were being entered into Karlie's account.. I'm thinking tax dodge there, Wolf.. while claiming a Gov payout at the same time.. but even so, it still wouldn't be a huge amount, but then.. and that had the possibility of putting Karlie's payments entered by the Gov. at risk, to a certain extent... the amount of the theft doesn't have any bearing, I suppose.

 

[Trooper]

Don't forget the ABNs. We know of Karlie's pre-death accounts. I think the police will unveil myriad fraudulently created accounts, credit/loan accounts (defaulted), fuel cards etc. etc. I think Karlie's ATM card will be the tip of the iceberg.


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tip of the iceberg in spades.. my working theory is that the female impersonator joined Karlie's family Facebook thing, under a spurious handle , just to keep an ear to the ground as to how Karlie's disappearance was travelling within the family.. and of course it would be where the news of Colleen bunging in the Missing Persons report would have been discussed etc,,

Certainly, Khandalyce's indentity was stolen also. .. the Child Payment would have been appropriated by the killer and his accomplice, Khandalyce being presented falsely as a living child, when we know now ....

I am unsure of what discounts Single Parent mothers get these days, it's never enough anyways but I digress , perhaps he registered a car in her name to get the Registration discount, electricity bills, phone, gas, train travel, dentist, pharmaceuticals.. where did it stop?

 

[Makara]

MOD ALERT: Enough with the image of the vehicle that DutchTreat posted! It is off topic and has derailed the thread. The owner(s) of that vehicle are likely innocent of any involvement in this case. Think about that!

Any further posts about this vehicle will be removed and your posting privileges will be removed.

Stick to the facts as we know them to date. Cosmic fingers don't equal facts.

 

[Makara]

http://www.kidspot.com.au/breaking-haunting-image-of-khandalyce-at-car-show/

Is this the whole photo or has it been cropped?

What strikes me as odd about it is that it doesn't really seem to be a photo of anything in particular. It doesn't seem like it was meant to be a photo of Khandalyce, the car or the person just in the frame. Almost like it was taken by accident when fiddling with the settings.

I don't particularly see it as relevant but odd to post a mishmash photo like that on facebook unless it was part of a photo dump. I don't have a clear memory of the types of other photos that were posted at the place where this picture originated from.....

BBM: Yes, the photo has been cropped and it was cropped for a reason. To protect those who don't have any involvement in the murder of Khandalyce.

 

[JaneSA]

Don't forget the ABNs. We know of Karlie's pre-death accounts. I think the police will unveil myriad fraudulently created accounts, credit/loan accounts (defaulted), fuel cards etc. etc. I think Karlie's ATM card will be the tip of the iceberg.

When doing contract work in Australia you need an ABN.
If a person wanted to do some work but not under their own name, a fake ABN might be useful.
Not sure how that would really benefit anyone unless it was a huge contract financially and you wanted to avoid paying tax, or perhaps wanted to do some work without Centerlink cutting off your benefits.

IMO the curious thing is the name though - the "exploration drilling" part.
So, just off the top of my head... would using a company name that included "exploration drilling" enable you to convince a landowner to give you access to their land?
And if so, to what purpose?

What I am getting at is, if all you wanted was the fake ABN, why add the word "exploration drilling" to it? A simple name such as KPS Enterprises, or KPS Services would have been just as useful for a tax or benefit fraud, if that was the intention.

 

[Wolfinator]

When doing contract work in Australia you need an ABN.
If a person wanted to do some work but not under their own name, a fake ABN might be useful.
Not sure how that would really benefit anyone unless it was a huge contract financially and you wanted to avoid paying tax, or perhaps wanted to do some work without Centerlink cutting off your benefits.

IMO the curious thing is the name though - the "exploration drilling" part.
So, just off the top of my head... would using a company name that included "exploration drilling" enable you to convince a landowner to give you access to their land?
And if so, to what purpose?

What I am getting at is, if all you wanted was the fake ABN, why add the word "exploration drilling" to it? A simple name such as KPS Enterprises, or KPS Services would have been just as useful for a tax or benefit fraud, if that was the intention.

Think I've posted this before but a start up exploration/drilling company could be a good vehicle for a gst return fraud. From memory the abn was not registered for GST. However that's very easy to change after registration.
It could be that the ATO and Centrelink cross matching databases picked it up in 2011 and started asking questions?


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[Freddo Frog]

It is interesting ( to me, at least ) that Karlie had a combination of types of Identity theft and keycard theft committed against her after her death... I don't know how often this happens, not very often, I suspect.. I cant think of another murder where fronting up to Centrelink ( as opposed to just 'ringing in ' or 'online responses' ) and a bank, in person, claiming to be the dead person happened, and was successful. Maybe others might know...

• Lost / stolen – transactions made on a card that has been lost by
or stolen from the rightful owner. ( this happened when her card was used almost immediately after her death, I think 2 days after and continuing.. )

• Never received – transactions made on a card that was stolen before
it was received by the rightful owner. ( this happened when the female impersonator went to the bank to give Karlie's details when the bank changed it's corporate workings and the account was set up in the new banks name )

• Fraudulent application – transactions made on a card where the
account was established using someone else’s identity or other
false information. (this happened when the female impersonator fronted up to Centrelink claiming to be Karlie ( false information ) and so continuing the Gov. payments to a false entity. )

This got me thinking just how easy identity fraud may be after all (if one is that way inclined).

We've lived at our address for many years but still get mail for the sons of the previous owners. I still get their various credit cards when the old ones expire plus their monthly statements (the banks have told me to keep returning them as they're legally obliged to send them to the last known address and as the payments charged to the card are made automatically there's not much they can do as it's not an outstanding debt), Dept of Immigration letters about residency and visas, Centrelink documents (including when one of them claimed for disaster relief payments using our address as their own which I promptly reported to Centrelink, and yes, I did open the mail that time!), superannuation and shareholding statements, medical records etc. If I was a criminal I would have more than enough information to pass myself off as them online at least.

Like you, I can't think of an instance where someone has fronted up to a govt dept claiming to be a deceased person but there are so many reports of people continuing to claim payments of the deceased. Hopefully this case will spur a major overhaul of the system, but, as pointed out earlier, if it hasn't happened since Snowtown I can't see it happening anytime soon

 

[Trooper]

Think I've posted this before but a start up exploration/drilling company could be a good vehicle for a gst return fraud. From memory the abn was not registered for GST. However that's very easy to change after registration.
It could be that the ATO and Centrelink cross matching databases picked it up in 2011 and started asking questions?


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I think he wanted to be known as some sort of guru in the fracking business...quite a few of his ABN's hint of that line of business .. . perhaps he thought it gave him status as opposed to his reality in which he is merely an almost unemployable layabout with a murderous hobby and a penchant for very young women. And a thief, of course. . .

 

[JaneSA]

Think I've posted this before but a start up exploration/drilling company could be a good vehicle for a gst return fraud. From memory the abn was not registered for GST. However that's very easy to change after registration.
It could be that the ATO and Centrelink cross matching databases picked it up in 2011 and started asking questions?


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You are correct to say it was not registered for GST, Wolfie (http://abncheck.com.au/abn/94740016021)
But if GST fraud was intended (and this would be a whole new level of sophistication not previously seen in this case) any business name would do.
So I am curious why the "exploration drilling" part was added.

 

[Freddo Frog]

and it's just occurred to me that Craig Meffert and the Snowtown victims were on a different kind of pension than Karlie, they were on the Disability one, which does not require the regular front up to Centrelink, at least as far as I can ascertain. Craig's murderers , apparently, never got the call-in, or if they did, it may have only required a phone call, not a personal appearance.. ditto the Snowtown victims.. Their deaths didn't require the impersonation aspect that Karlie's demanded. .....it could be dealt with electronically.. but not Karlie's. At some point, A Karlie Pearce-Stevenson would have to materialise at Centrelink. In the flesh. Bearing the appearance of someone of the age of Karlie, at the very least.

And when this someone, this female impersonator is on trial, we will see either (a )the same relentless determination and sense of entitlement it took to perform these antics, the same utter fearlessness and capacity to be persuasive under enormous pressure, or (b) a fabricated air of helplessness and hopelessness allied with a touching air of the naïve and possibly a bit of simple housewifery added in..

I look forward to it, either way.

BBM Correct. I checked with a friend who is on a disability pension and she said (in Qld at least) she only had to front up to Centrelink once (after she applied in person with all of her substantiating paperwork) to have an interview with a social worker.

 

[Wolfinator]

You are correct to say it was not registered for GST, Wolfie (http://abncheck.com.au/abn/94740016021)
But if GST fraud was intended (and this would be a whole new level of sophistication not previously seen in this case) any business name would do.
So I am curious why the "exploration drilling" part was added.

Exploration and drilling companies can have lots of start up costs and take a long time to show any revenue hence on a BAS can show paying out a lot of GST and not collecting much/any - hey presto - GST return cheque until you trigger an audit.


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[JaneSA]

Exploration and drilling companies can have lots of start up costs and take a long time to show any revenue hence on a BAS can show paying out a lot of GST and not collecting much/any - hey presto - GST return cheque until you trigger an audit.

Sure. So what would the person using the ABN be doing?
Are you suggesting fake accounts to other fake companies?

 

[Wolfinator]

Sure. So what would the person using the ABN be doing?
Are you suggesting fake accounts to other fake companies?

No fake accounts or interaction with other companies even required. Just fake BAS/GST returns. It's a one page form submitted quarterly. I think the ATO though now has some pretty serious data mining and connectivity to banks and other government databases to search for any red flags. But not so long ago this was a problem for them.

It was more likely used as contracting and PAYG tax avoidance. Lots of companies don't even check the ABNs supplied to them. ABN holders also get trade discounts, can open up trade accounts etc.




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