AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Trooper]

I've always found Des Bray's choice of words in the press conference interesting.



Does that mean there are more sightings that were not "recorded" - I think yes....

And if you straight away read his next sentence about "different times and locations" - it has led me to believe that there were "sightings" of the non recorded variety that separated mother and daughter post 14/15 December - IMO

I think there are LOTS of witness statements to come - people we have never heard of who are helping LE obtain justice for K&K.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2015/s4339988.htm


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edited by me for brevity..

I agree with you comprehensively on this, Wolf. While there was only a small window of opportunity for sightings of Karlie and Khandalyce in Canberra.. ( she was dead within just 3 weeks of first using her keycard there ) it was Spring, a gorgeous time in Canberra, and they both would have been out and about, to my way of thinking..

 

[Wolfinator]

These threads of "Mr Big" only make me lean closer to my very sad feelings that this was all actually really really small. Welfare fraud, violence, drug habits and dysfunction, predation and opportunism.

IMO - The cover up, welfare fraud, robbing the family and the ABN racquet smacks of lessons learnt in jail or in the dark belly of the welfare "underclass". It's a train wreck.


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[Trooper]

These threads of "Mr Big" only make me lean closer to my very sad feelings that this was all actually really really small. Welfare fraud, violence, drug habits and dysfunction, predation and opportunism.

IMO - The cover up, welfare fraud, robbing the family and the ABN racquet smacks of lessons learnt in jail or in the dark belly of the welfare "underclass". It's a train wreck.


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again,,, I 'm with you, wolf.. it has the air of unwashed laundry, scrabblin for rent, unpaid electricity bills, petty crime and a strong thread of opportunism.. nothing planned out, nothing thought out, and a certain sort of up yours to govt agencies that hassle, like the Housing Commission and Centrelink .. all that nasty nosy officialdom.

I reckon it would have surprised Holdom himself that the Centrelink fraud , for example , came to so much over the years.. this killer and his accomplice settled for dribs and drabs for years, and neither appear to have been advanced by the criminal advantage they took of Gov payouts. Their situation seemed to remain the same year in , year out, even with the extra secret income.

 

[DutchTreat]

edited by me for brevity..

I agree with you comprehensively on this, Wolf. While there was only a small window of opportunity for sightings of Karlie and Khandalyce in Canberra.. ( she was dead within just 3 weeks of first using her keycard there ) it was Spring, a gorgeous time in Canberra, and they both would have been out and about, to my way of thinking..

With a bounty on their head? Under normal cicumstances yes, but knowing that Karlie ended up dead in Belganlo State Forest three weeks later supposedly on the run because of drug debt and Khandalyce ended up brutally murdered in a suitcase in Wynarka. Mwah, chances are that they weren't enjoying a gorgeous time in Canberra.

 

[Trooper]

With a bounty on their head? Under normal cicumstances yes, but knowing that Karlie ended up dead in Belganlo State Forest three weeks later supposedly on the run because of drug debt and Khandalyce ended up brutally murdered in a suitcase in Wynarka. Mwah, chances are that they weren't enjoying a gorgeous time in Canberra.

well. I don't give any credence to the bounty theory at all. So for me, it remains absolutely certain that Spring IS a gorgeous time in Canberra, I really can assure you it is. .... and Karlie and Khandalyce would have been out and about in it. Even MORE gorgeous to someone who's life had been spent in Alice Springs and for a short while, in Adelaide.. A Canberra spring is just irresistible to be getting that pram out, scrubbing up the babe, , pulling on the leotards and be jogging downtown to the Canberra market!!.. oh yes.

 

[Wolfinator]

well. I don't give any credence to the bounty theory at all. So for me, it remains absolutely certain that Spring IS a gorgeous time in Canberra, I really can assure you it is. .... and Karlie and Khandalyce would have been out and about in it. Even MORE gorgeous to someone who's life had been spent in Alice Springs and for a short while, in Adelaide.. A Canberra spring is just irresistible to be getting that pram out, scrubbing up the babe, , pulling on the leotards and be jogging downtown to the Canberra market!!.. oh yes.

Hehe - thanks for the levity.

It's somewhere in between for me.

There's no question that Karlie was covering some serious miles and leading what on a bank statement looks like a very unconventional life.

Do I see her sipping latte's in the sunshine with her mothers group? Hell no.

Do I see the double-blind-carer-holdom-bounty fiction just described as plausible - not really but I'm maybe just not that imaginative.


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[Trooper]

Hehe - thanks for the levity.

It's somewhere in between for me.

There's no question that Karlie was covering some serious miles and leading what on a bank statement looks like a very unconventional life.

Do I see her sipping latte's in the sunshine with her mothers group? Hell no.

Do I see the double-blind-carer-holdom-bounty fiction just described as plausible - not really but I'm maybe just not that imaginative.


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I agree re the serious mileage. .. . I found the amount they both did a bit gobsmacking and the cost of it has always seemed to me to be way , way out of the possibilities of anyone on Unemployment, and/or Single Parent Payment. .. An example.. Karlie's legitimate income for November , Single Parent Payment, I worked that out to $1574.. ( plus or minus a few extras that I cant ascertain) yet her outgo for just fuel for those trips came to around $620.. that's nearly 30% of her legitimate income... doesn't add up, does it? ..

It s just to me, from what I know of drug dealers, users, and sellers, although my circle resides in Sydney in that area, and the Eastern Suburbs, to boot, a whole other thing than the level of Karlie, and Holdom, the bounty thing is absurd, but also the amount that Karlie is given a run with, , like $25,000? She would be an urban legend , songs would be sung about her, if she managed to scam some Mr Biggish person of that. EVERYONE would know. About it, of her, and who did it.

 

[Amee]

Oct 31st

Karlie left Alice Springs in 2006, driving off into the dust in an old Commodore with her daughter Khandalyce.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...e/news-story/b7161105e0f5fb2810716cc9ab19677d

2006, when Khandalyce was only a baby, Karlie took to the road. It appears there had been some dispute with her mother.

“They moved away from their family and started to travel and over time contact with the family became less for reasons that are not yet apparent to us,” Bray said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...580625047?sv=258d143a7e4bfbbc6daebd1b732a0f0f

 

[Panda]

It also says unconfirmed in the scentence you quoted.

So when Des Bray says: 'The last reported sighting' how sure can we be that he's not referring to another sighting.

Cause if the last confirmed sighting was of BOTH mother and daughter, IMO that SHOULD be on the SAPOL site, cause that is quite crucial for any possible witness sightings.

23 October 2015
JOINT STATEMENT FROM SA AND NSW POLICE

"Investigators then located a witness who had seen Khandalyce and her mother at Marion Shopping Centre, Adelaide in November 2008. She had taken photos of Khandalyce wearing a pink dress.That dress is identical to that found with the remains in the suitcase."

 

[DutchTreat]

23 October 2015
JOINT STATEMENT FROM SA AND NSW POLICE

"Investigators then located a witness who had seen Khandalyce and her mother at Marion Shopping Centre, Adelaide in November 2008. She had taken photos of Khandalyce wearing a pink dress.That dress is identical to that found with the remains in the suitcase."

I know, but that is about a sighting in Adelaide. Or am I missing your point?

 

[Wolfinator]

I agree re the serious mileage. .. . I found the amount they both did a bit gobsmacking and the cost of it has always seemed to me to be way , way out of the possibilities of anyone on Unemployment, and/or Single Parent Payment. .. An example.. Karlie's legitimate income for November , Single Parent Payment, I worked that out to $1574.. ( plus or minus a few extras that I cant ascertain) yet her outgo for just fuel for those trips came to around $620.. that's nearly 30% of her legitimate income... doesn't add up, does it? ..

It s just to me, from what I know of drug dealers, users, and sellers, although my circle resides in Sydney in that area, and the Eastern Suburbs, to boot, a whole other thing than the level of Karlie, and Holdom, the bounty thing is absurd, but also the amount that Karlie is given a run with, , like $25,000? She would be an urban legend , songs would be sung about her, if she managed to scam some Mr Biggish person of that. EVERYONE would know. About it, of her, and who did it.

IMO there's probably nuggets of truth in all of the rumour. When it all comes out I expect it to be very grubby.

Maybe the $$$ of the drug/bounty story need to be made irrelevant ie does the story change in its believability when you play around with the sums? If you lower them does it become more believable and even sadder? The larger the more incredulous and glamorous?

I still think it was a cash for comments/story told at the end of the bar and was exaggerated and inflated - and maybe that's why I found it so disingenuous?


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[Makara]

I'll float my kooky thought about the $5000. The carer, having been scammed of his drug money (they told him Karlie ran off with it), is double-scammed into putting up $5000 to bring back Karlie and the drugs or the money. Later when he's telling the story, the $5000 becomes "bounty" and he neglects to mention that he offered and paid the bounty himself.

or,, in a parallel world, Holdom is the one with the bounty on his head for having scarpered off with $25,000 of investors money, Granma's Carer got the story cackhanded backwards, and Karlie is the bounty hunter, instructed to get the money back, and so she calls in at Mt Gambier to get a suitcase big enough to carry all this in, and then she arrives in Canberra, tracking Holdom down and somehow Holdom gets wind of this hunter, and drags her into Belanglo and murders her, and then , taking her key card and kid, he screams off to Broadview SA and then up to see 'Mr Big" in Alice Springs, tells him he couldn't get the money back but she wont be a bother anymore, ( and Mr Big keeps quiet about this ) and collects the $5000 and jiggles back to Broadview, and then back to Canberra , oh, where is Khandalyce, .. .. ah.. back in a moment. I have to think this stuff thru..

blackmailed by 'Mr Big'?? I don't know.. Holdom would surely have stuff to blackmail 'Mr Big' about, .. blackmail isn't the kind of successful enterprise that drug dealers and buyers and sellers engage in usually. Is that common in Holland? Confessing to murder is probably nothing to ripple the surface about in those worlds.. after all, Holdom would be doing in on Mr Big's orders, not that he would get any discount on sentencing should he be caught, quite the opposite, he would be tariffed with a longer one, but so would Mr B.. it would be a Mexican standoff, if anything.

Allow me to float my kooky thoughts. There was no $5000 bounty. There was no bounty at all. Karlie was not a bounty hunter. There was no $25,000 in cash to buy drugs. There is no Mr. Big. There is no drug syndicate. There are no blackmailers. There were no passports. There was no passing Khandalyce onto some unknown person/people.

DH murdered Khandalyce within hours/days of murdering Karlie. He murdered her in a fit of rage and that rage carried over to Khandalyce. It wasn't about drugs or money. It was about pure unadulterated rage.

IMO.

 

[Bohemian]

Didn't we read that there was a confirmed sighting of both in Canberra? and that the phones of both Karlie and DH were tracked to be at Belanglo at the same time, on the night of Dec 14/15?

Yes, Karo, if you're'te speaking of Karlie and Khandalyce, Des Bray has said that they were last reported sighted at Charnwood ACT; around 24/11/2008 IIRC.

I haven't read that Karlie's phone pinged at Belanglo between 14-15/12/2008; only DJH's.

_______________

All in my opinion.

 

[Trooper]

IMO there's probably nuggets of truth in all of the rumour. When it all comes out I expect it to be very grubby.

Maybe the $$$ of the drug/bounty story need to be made irrelevant ie does the story change in its believability when you play around with the sums? If you lower them does it become more believable and even sadder? The larger the more incredulous and glamorous?

I still think it was a cash for comments/story told at the end of the bar and was inflated - and maybe that's why I found it so disingenuous?


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oh certainly, people are murdered for $20... people are murdered for a tinny.. the ridiculous amount this unconfirmed story from a convicted drug dealer and user , told to crimestoppers then shopped to newspapers has all the hallmarks of someone in a dozy world of their own, inhabited by shrouded people on corners, and the peculiar dreams of certain drug users, where having a bounty on one's head of $5000 confers some sort of status, and scamming $25,000 is the very height of the dreams of having such a disposal amount.. ... .

It's amazing how much mileage this unconfirmed story with it's dodgy source manages to run on. It is a story lots of people seem to want to cling to, with a tenacious and persistent determination that flies in the face of known logic, mostly.. .

 

[Bohemian]

I don't think Karlie would have left her child with anyone as is it seems she was insistent on taking her with her, despite family pleas to leave her behind when she left to go travelling.

I personally haven't yet read an MSM article or SAPOL presser that says Karlie's family pleaded with her to leave Khandalyce beind in The Alice when she left to go traveling. Do you have a link to that please, Karo? TIA.

 

[Panda]

I know, but that is about a sighting in Adelaide. Or am I missing your point?

"So when Des Bray says: 'The last reported sighting' how sure can we be that he's not referring to another sighting."

My point is, that is all they have confirmed, released, whatever. If there was another reported sighting, in all likelihood, they would have referred to that sighting, and not the one at Charnwood.

 

[plongi]

yep the first murder may not have been intentional. just got out of hand. Then you got to clean up. Oh and well might aswell milk the bank account for as long as you can . keeps her alive and keeps them in some cash and otyher potential frauds. A win win situation of the ugliest form.

These threads of "Mr Big" only make me lean closer to my very sad feelings that this was all actually really really small. Welfare fraud, violence, drug habits and dysfunction, predation and opportunism.

IMO - The cover up, welfare fraud, robbing the family and the ABN racquet smacks of lessons learnt in jail or in the dark belly of the welfare "underclass". It's a train wreck.


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[plongi]

yep sound about right.

Allow me to float my kooky thoughts. There was no $5000 bounty. There was no bounty at all. Karlie was not a bounty hunter. There was no $25,000 in cash to buy drugs. There is no Mr. Big. There is no drug syndicate. There are no blackmailers. There were no passports. There was no passing Khandalyce onto some unknown person/people.

DH murdered Khandalyce within hours/days of murdering Karlie. He murdered her in a fit of rage and that rage carried over to Khandalyce. It wasn't about drugs or money. It was about pure unadulterated rage.

IMO.

 

[plongi]

The cops know a lot. The ability to say to the public that they were murdered at dif times says it all. They release so little but to say that says a lot. They know of the where about's of the who's who of this case. Could even be a forensic something picked up in the suitcase. A date on something that puts a time stamp. knowledge of who Kandhalyse was with. CCT of DH and Kandhalyse. might be tactical as well .. make others sweat or blab or go do something telling

 

[Trooper]

The cops know a lot. The ability to say to the public that they were murdered at dif times says it all. They release so little but to say that says a lot. They know of the where about's of the who's who of this case. Could even be a forensic something picked up in the suitcase. A date on something that puts a time stamp. knowledge of who Kandhalyse was with. CCT of DH and Kandhalyse. might be tactical as well .. make others sweat or blab or go do something telling

Bang on the money there, plongi...

I have been convinced that to claim that they were murdered at different times, at different locations, and I think Des Bray said, with similar violence, but he did hint at some difference in method, or technique between both killings, and I don't think that kind of knowledge would have come entirely from forensic medicine.. after all those years ... it seemed to me that it was the kind of thing verified by some other event or /and outcome. Des didn't go as far as to say murdered by different people though.. I thought that may have been an oversight, or it may be quite deliberate.

And I don't think Holdom is as quiet as is made out, merely by lack of released statements by the police, or anyone else.. I think he is blabbing for his very life. Naturally.. it is a matter of how the rest of his long life is going to go.