AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[JLZ]

If there was insufficient evidence to show in which state the killing took place, would that be enough to prevent the case being tried in either jurisdiction?

 

[Makara]

If there was insufficient evidence to show in which state the killing took place, would that be enough to prevent the case being tried in either jurisdiction?

I would think not JLZ. Khandalyce's remains were found in South Australia and a coroner's report would be issued in that state. The coroner would order it to go to trial in South Australia if it can't be determined in which state the murder took place.

 

[JaneSA]

IMO DH's attitude and any response to police questioning is "Prove it." And "It's not my problem, ask Hazel."

IMO HP is the one who has been singing like a canary.

Yep, I have to agree that HP has been providing all the useful information.
Whether or not it implicates her in any crime is yet to be seen.

 

[Wexford]

and even odder, it turns out that he , it is alleged, took 2 suitcases of stuff to his sisters place, and lo and behold, Khandalyce's birth certificate is found at the sisters place.. coinkidink? now ... that's bad luck, here s 2 persons you don't know, both of whom are murdered and hidden for years, and whaddayaknow, in your pocket you have one dead persons card, and at Sis's place, the other dead persons birth certificate... I just don't know. It's awful.

It would be interesting to know if, when they searched the sisters place and found the birth certificate....was there still TWO suitcases....or only 1. It seems quite specific to say he 'took 2 suitcases' rather than just suitcases or her stuff or some of her stuff.

 

[Makara]

Yep, I have to agree that HP has been providing all the useful information.
Whether or not it implicates her in any crime is yet to be seen.

Of course HP will be trying very hard not to implicate herself in any crime but IMO she is in very deep and it's just a matter of time before she is arrested.

 

[JaneSA]

It would be interesting to know if, when they searched the sisters place and found the birth certificate....was there still TWO suitcases....or only 1. It seems quite specific to say he 'took 2 suitcases' rather than just suitcases or her stuff or some of her stuff.

According to The Daily Telegraph, police took 2 suitcases from the sister's home.
"Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off."

http://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-daily-telegraph-sydney/20151112/281599534386693/TextView

 

[Trooper]

It would be interesting to know if, when they searched the sisters place and found the birth certificate....was there still TWO suitcases....or only 1. It seems quite specific to say he 'took 2 suitcases' rather than just suitcases or her stuff or some of her stuff.

So specific I wonder if it was the little 16 yr old hands of a 'fiancee' who helped pack the stuff into 2 suitcases for the 'boyfriend'... not knowing the significance of the objects. Which leads one to ponder where these articles had been stored and where the packing took place since the suitcases were taken to Sis's place. This whole story has wings , to me.. the transient nature of Holdom , and yet he hangs on to stuff that has the capacity to imprison him for life. There must have been times when he had big throwouts, when he was moving on, from caravan park to caravan park, from shelter to house, to squat, to hostel, in and out of .. you know what.. and yet, he hangs on to these things.

And one could say, well. it's just a bit of paper, but..... it really isn't.. it's something he should never be associated with, and yet.. ..... he hoards it. Taking it to his sisters place, he cant even throw it out then..it is 8 years!! he has to pack it up . take it there, get Sis to store it.. why ? why? why? ..

It is remarkable how often suitcases crop up in this story.. no stripey bags, no rolled up swags, or bundles..

 

[Makara]

It would be interesting to know if, when they searched the sisters place and found the birth certificate....was there still TWO suitcases....or only 1. It seems quite specific to say he 'took 2 suitcases' rather than just suitcases or her stuff or some of her stuff.

The two-year-old’s birth certificate was reportedly found at the home of Holdom’s sister during a search last month. Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off.

http://news.anotao.com/link/au/www....ry-fnii5yv7-1227605383339?from=herald+sun_rss

BBM.

 

[JaneSA]

Of course HP will be trying very hard not to implicate herself in any crime but IMO she is in very deep and it's just a matter of time before she is arrested.

I agree she may be implicated in the long-running fraud, maybe, but I don't think she could be involved in the murders due to being hospitalised.
But as you already know, my personal theory is that whatever she did she did in good faith, believing that she was aiding Karlie in various ways, rather than aiding DH.
It's just my own feeling about her, but I don't think she knew Karlie or Khandalyce were dead until recently, and even then it may have been a long dawning suspicion.

 

[Trooper]

He couldn't get rid of them!!.. this whole event, taking the suitcases stuffed with Karlie stuff , with Khandalyce stuff, the nature of which would instantly put a noose around his neck.. his inability to eradicate the articles. . Burn them? he cannot bear to, . Drown them? he cant do it. Bury them? no.. he saves them. Freud, eat your heart out. This is such a huge and empty country in many ways, yet in the entire 7.692 million km² of Australia, he couldn't find a place to discard these tiny feminine articles, objects, papers, it's like a slamdunk of psychiatry.

 

[Makara]

I agree she may be implemented in the long-running fraud, maybe, but I don't think she could be involved in the murders due to being hospitalised.
But as you already know, my personal theory is that whatever she did she did in good faith, believing that she was aiding Karlie in various ways, rather than aiding DH.
It's just my own feeling about her, but I don't think she knew Karlie or Khandalyce were dead until recently, and even then it may have been a long dawning suspicion.

IMO I don't think that HP had a hand in either murder but she knew about both and therefore is an accessory to murder times two. I believe that she is guilty of identity theft and fraud and will be charged accordingly. I don't believe she thought she was helping Karlie in any way, shape or form. She was helping herself. Helping herself to Karlie's identity and money and she continued to do so for years.

 

[Trooper]

IMO I don't think that HP had a hand in either murder but she knew about both and therefore is an accessory to murder times two. I believe that she is guilty of identity theft and fraud and will be charged accordingly. I don't believe she thought she was helping Karlie in any way, shape or form. She was helping herself. Helping herself to Karlie's identity and money and she continued to do so for years.

it would be almost saintly of HP to keep on 'helping Karlie'....for years, committing fraud on a weekly basis, and not just ordinary fraud but defrauding the Commonwealth of Australia, a big enemy and imagine, she must have done it without one word of thanks from Karlie, because Karlie was dead.. one has to wonder where she sent the money on to, what address she had to shunt Karlie's money on to her, the money HP is helping Karlie access.. there are no postboxes in the Belanglo Forest.

 

[Maggie_May]

It all depends doesn't it on how soon after Karlie was killed did someone kill poor little K (police comments have varied from some time after to not long after) because maybe it wasn't necessary to bring her back at all...

Ok, so this is possibly a loopy idea, but what if the reason the person carrying Karlie's card went to Alice Springs was to take Khandalyce back home and leave her with her family?

A tricky situation and I'm not sure how you could do that with a 2yo. Obviously you couldn't just turn up at mum's or gran's place and just drop her off, but maybe that was the vague plan, with details to be worked out later.

Maybe something went hideously wrong with that plan.

Just a wild flight of fancy, but who knows, it might lead someone here to think of something more...

 

[Maggie_May]

Has to be more than just the tower dumps

I really wish we knew why the police are so certain that Karlie was killed between December 14 and 15, 2008. I wonder what evidence they have that convinces them of that specific time period?

 

[Maggie_May]

But didn't police confirm that K & K were last sighted in Charnwood?

Yes, I have wondered about that too.

Those 2 suitcases of Karlie's belongings found at DH's sister's house are interesting because it seems that by the time she got to Canberra her belongings and her daughters were separated into different suitcases.

I am still wondering if Khandalyce was left with someone in the Mt Gambier area and if that explains the side trip there, which is so far out of her way if Karlie's destination was Canberra.

 

[Maggie_May]

A lot of drugs are dropped off in Mt Gambier...

Yes, I have wondered about that too.

Those 2 suitcases of Karlie's belongings found at DH's sister's house are interesting because it seems that by the time she got to Canberra her belongings and her daughters were separated into different suitcases.

I am still wondering if Khandalyce was left with someone in the Mt Gambier area and if that explains the side trip there, which is so far out of her way if Karlie's destination was Canberra.

 

[Maggie_May]

Depends I guess whether a) they were transactions at the counter eg for drinks, snacks, etc or b) withdrawals at the ATM inside the servo or c) at the pump. Also, maybe police have strategically released some of the 1200 transactions in order to keep the perpetrators on hot bricks.

Another thing I just noticed about the transaction history is that prior to her murder there are no apparent fuel purchases on KP's card, yet after her murder there are service station transactions at mobile, BP and OTR.
Not sure if that has any significance though and the list of transactions is too small to say it is really a change of pattern, but it seems to be.

 

[Found]

Karlie would have to be present, to complete the procedure, because Khandalyce is a minor. Her signature wouldn't be enough, although it sometimes happens but not to anyone I know who has gone thru the same procedure with their minor children. ..to do it without Karlie would require a mandatory declaration signed by a JP and a few other things as well, and one of the irritating thing about all this, is, it is highly likely it would be suggested that Khandalyce be added to Karlie's passport, considering her age, which means Karlie would have to be in possession of a passport.

it could be done at any place in Australia, it doesn't have to be done at a specific place. All applications go to a central place and are issued from the central Passport office in Canberra, so it doesn't matter where it is applied from. Official residence not withstanding. Ditto visa's , etc.

There is no longer an option to have a young child on your own passport. They always have to have their own. The passports are not all issued in Canberra. You can pick them up hot of the press in Sydney and maybe other large cities I'm not sure. If the father is on the birth certificate pretty sure he has to sign too.


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[Makara]

The article in the Maitland Mercury below has always intrigued me. It states in part that...Someone told police Holdom allegedly took two suitcases believed to be carrying some of Ms Pearce-Stevenson's possessions.

Took them from where? Who was the someone?

In trying to nut this out my first thought was that when HP was first questioned by police in early October she has told them that when she and DH finally parted ways (sometime in 2011 or later), DH left the family home with not only his own gear but the two suitcases belonging to Karlie. "Yep, he took all of his stuff and the two cases belonging to Karlie, went to his sister's place and I haven't seen him since."

In the second article quoted below from the Herald Sun it states in part that...Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off.

This is where it becomes a little confusing. Did DH finally pack up and leave HP in Adelaide, taking Karlie's luggage with him. During the investigation the police received a tip-off (from HP) that Karlie's luggage is at DH's sister's place and that's exactly where they find it?

Did HP try and throw DH under the bus early in the peace or has one or both of the newspapers got it all wrong?

If HP is totally clueless about Karlie's murder, what reason did DH give her for having Karlie's luggage? "Oh, Karlie's away working (or visiting family, picking fruit, running drugs, drilling for oil etc. etc.) and she wants you to impersonate her to update her bank account and Centrelink details so that we can draw money from her account and send it to her."

Nup, I don't buy that one.

Whoever the 'someone' was that tipped off the police, they knew that those two suitcases contained Karlie's possessions. Perhaps DH's sister simply contacted the police to let them know that Karlie's luggage was at her place.

Nup, I don't buy that one either.

Thoughts?

IMO.

BBM: UBM:

The birth certificate of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson's daughter was allegedly discovered at a home linked to her accused killer last month.

Fairfax Media understands on the day police revealed the breakthrough in a press conference, detectives searched Holdom's sister's home after receiving a tip-off.

Someone told police Holdom allegedly took two suitcases, believed to be carrying some of Ms Pearce-Stevenson's possessions, after Karlie died.

It will be alleged detectives found Khandalyce's​ birth certificate at Holdom's sister's home during the search last month.

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/s...d-to-accused-killer-daniel-james-holdom/?cs=7

Nov. 12, 2015, 1:25 p.m.

THE birth certificate of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson’s young daughter has allegedly been found inside a home connected with the young mother’s accused killer.

The two-year-old’s birth certificate was reportedly found at the home of Holdom’s sister during a search last month. Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off.

http://news.anotao.com/link/au/www....ry-fnii5yv7-1227605383339?from=herald+sun_rss

November 12, 2015 11:26am

 

[plongi]

HP has a lot to answer to. I find it hard to think they didn't know. After the mass saturation of the story the are very guilty in the cover up.

Of course HP will be trying very hard not to implicate herself in any crime but IMO she is in very deep and it's just a matter of time before she is arrested.