Australia AUSTRALIA - 4YO AUGUST (GUS) Missing from rural family home in Outback, Yunta, South Australia, 27th Sept 2025

[Ellery84]

I'd say basing such assumptions from one incident happening in extreme circumstances is in it's actuality, creating a work of fiction.

MOO

Or its tendency evidence. IMO

One or the other.

 

[Kemug]

PS I just remembered something else - my father lived there most of his life, and I'm pretty sure he told me that once when he was youngish the pit got too high, so it was filled in, and a new one dug almost right next to it. And my point is that some new concreting was done.

 

[Hexe]

Or its tendency evidence. IMO

Considering it is a single incident that happened under extreme circumstances (like, you know, having a missing grandson certainly increases ones stress levels), it's not enough of adequate evidence to infer anything about Josie's tendences.

MOO

 

[RobinCAL]

DBM

 

[sapphire blue]

<modsnip>

The following is relevant to the thread for readers wondering why Josh did not push his safety concerns more, especially for overseas readers.....

Family law in Australia is worse than in much of the US, but not quite as bad as Japan. jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

If Josh or any parent wanted to do more than voice complaints, and the other parent did not agree, they would need to invest $20000 to $150000 on legal and other fees and be prepared to wait two to ten years for an outcome. That much is probably similar to the US.

They may also risk retaliatory legal actions, including losing all legal parental responsibility, which is quite common here, especially where family members who are used to threatening people to get their way (aka Josie).. jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

Things that are worse here:
1) family court procedings here do not require evidence to come to conclusions, many decisions are just he said/she said and who the judge sympathises with, which is a complete lottery. In the US there seems to be a little more need for some basis in reality and following clear rules of evidence. (I am not saying that many cases do not provide evidence, but in many cases that evidence of DV or similar may be ignored) jimo imo omo moo imho jmho
"In many parenting cases in Australia, certain provisions of the Evidence Act do not apply." due to provisions in the Family Law Act.

2) family courts in Aus cannot do much to enforce their orders if the other parent ignores this. If the parent complains that a court order relevant to a child's safety is being contravened, then it could take years for the case to get to court.... jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

Can Police Enforce Family Court Orders In Australia?

This guide will help you understand the role police play in enforcing family court orders, the limits of their involvement, and how they can assist in specific circumstances.

www.mondaq.com

"Police enforcement of family court orders is limited to situations where safety is at risk or where there are immediate concerns about family violence or child abduction."

In Japan, all one parent has to do is abduct/remove the child from the other parent if they disagree with a complaint that is voiced, and the other parent loses all rights to see the child (although that is changing a little recently).

So, in Australia, a parent needs to be very careful how they voice complaints about parenting of their child to the family of the other parent, especially if that family are the type who have a member who is in the habit of waving a gun and threatening you to shut up. The police are not well positioned to deal with situations of concerns about child safety and they and the courts often get it wrong, sometimes by not believing when there is a serious problem, but sometimes making the opposite mistake.

<modsnip>

I don't think Josh had much choice regarding doing more than voicing a concern, and even that has its risks.

<modsnip>

Yet some are able to use the family courts to continually harass and terrorise their ex and kids, all whilst not paying a cent in legal fees and also requesting no financial responsibility and being granted it.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder if the police have a fair idea what happened

I hope so, because if they are naming anyone as a suspect merely because they haven't yet located the child, then that would be an atrocity.

 

[rhino]

DBM

 

[TMich6811]

I’m not a violent person but let someone from the media approach my house if my kid is missing and you best hold my bag cause I’m taking them out.

Protection. Of what yet for Josie we don’t know. IMO it’s protecting Shannon but truly we have no idea at this point

 

[GracefulD1an]

Almost anything is possible at this point. JMO

Exactly. No one is talking and we are just speculating at this point

 

[GracefulD1an]

<modsnip>

The following is relevant to the thread for readers wondering why Josh did not push his safety concerns more, especially for overseas readers.....

Family law in Australia is worse than in much of the US, but not quite as bad as Japan. <modsnip>

If Josh or any parent wanted to do more than voice complaints, and the other parent did not agree, they would need to invest $20000 to $150000 on legal and other fees and be prepared to wait two to ten years for an outcome. That much is probably similar to the US.

They may also risk retaliatory legal actions, including losing all legal parental responsibility, which is quite common here, especially where family members who are used to threatening people to get their way (aka Josie).. <modsnip>

Things that are worse here:
1) family court procedings here do not require evidence to come to conclusions, many decisions are just he said/she said and who the judge sympathises with, which is a complete lottery. In the US there seems to be a little more need for some basis in reality and following clear rules of evidence. (I am not saying that many cases do not provide evidence, but in many cases that evidence of DV or similar may be ignored) <modsnip>
"In many parenting cases in Australia, certain provisions of the Evidence Act do not apply." due to provisions in the Family Law Act.

2) family courts in Aus cannot do much to enforce their orders if the other parent ignores this. If the parent complains that a court order relevant to a child's safety is being contravened, then it could take years for the case to get to court.... <modsnip>

Can Police Enforce Family Court Orders In Australia?

This guide will help you understand the role police play in enforcing family court orders, the limits of their involvement, and how they can assist in specific circumstances.

www.mondaq.com

"Police enforcement of family court orders is limited to situations where safety is at risk or where there are immediate concerns about family violence or child abduction."

In Japan, all one parent has to do is abduct/remove the child from the other parent if they disagree with a complaint that is voiced, and the other parent loses all rights to see the child (although that is changing a little recently).

So, in Australia, a parent needs to be very careful how they voice complaints about parenting of their child to the family of the other parent, especially if that family are the type who have a member who is in the habit of waving a gun and threatening you to shut up. The police are not well positioned to deal with situations of concerns about child safety and they and the courts often get it wrong, sometimes by not believing when there is a serious problem, but sometimes making the opposite mistake.

<modsnip>

I don't think Josh had much choice regarding doing more than voicing a concern, and even that has its risks.

<modsnip>

I got that feeling from reading all the posts hence why I said he’s going to be arguing with Jessie about her not listening to him and his rightful concerns

 

[Puzzles]

I'm certain I'm one of many strangers who thinks of little Gus every day. If dead, we all want this little child returned to his mum and dad.


As searches have taken place on two properties, a distance of 30km and 24km from Oak Park, there’s a suggestion that little Gus was harmed or hidden away from his home.

And from the attached link: "… SA Police Commissioner Grant Stevens said police would maintain a presence in the area in the state's Mid North and did not rule out searching an adjoining conservation park."
Police to return to Oak Park 'frequently' in search for Gus Lamont

IMO, it’s unfathomable that Oak Park, a sheep station of some 60,000 hectares (148,000 acres), is managed by two septuagenarians with what appears to be help at times from the mum of a four-year-old and a baby.

I wonder if they used an agricultural drone for herding? Google tells me: Agricultural drones typically carry payloads between 10 kg and 50+ kg (22–110+ lbs) for spraying and spreading, with advanced, heavy-lift models like the DJI Agras T100 or specialized units capable of lifting up to 100 kg to 150 kg.

We’ve discussed various accidents that may have caused his death, but have we talked about the possibility that it was planned? If so, I apologize for bringing that hideous thought back into your mind.

 

[Ruminations]

<modsnip>

The following is relevant to the thread for readers wondering why Josh did not push his safety concerns more, especially for overseas readers.....

Family law in Australia is worse than in much of the US, but not quite as bad as Japan. jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

If Josh or any parent wanted to do more than voice complaints, and the other parent did not agree, they would need to invest $20000 to $150000 on legal and other fees and be prepared to wait two to ten years for an outcome. That much is probably similar to the US.

They may also risk retaliatory legal actions, including losing all legal parental responsibility, which is quite common here, especially where family members who are used to threatening people to get their way (aka Josie).. jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

Things that are worse here:
1) family court procedings here do not require evidence to come to conclusions, many decisions are just he said/she said and who the judge sympathises with, which is a complete lottery. In the US there seems to be a little more need for some basis in reality and following clear rules of evidence. (I am not saying that many cases do not provide evidence, but in many cases that evidence of DV or similar may be ignored) jimo imo omo moo imho jmho
"In many parenting cases in Australia, certain provisions of the Evidence Act do not apply." due to provisions in the Family Law Act.

2) family courts in Aus cannot do much to enforce their orders if the other parent ignores this. If the parent complains that a court order relevant to a child's safety is being contravened, then it could take years for the case to get to court.... jimo imo omo moo imho jmho

Can Police Enforce Family Court Orders In Australia?

This guide will help you understand the role police play in enforcing family court orders, the limits of their involvement, and how they can assist in specific circumstances.

www.mondaq.com

"Police enforcement of family court orders is limited to situations where safety is at risk or where there are immediate concerns about family violence or child abduction."

In Japan, all one parent has to do is abduct/remove the child from the other parent if they disagree with a complaint that is voiced, and the other parent loses all rights to see the child (although that is changing a little recently).

So, in Australia, a parent needs to be very careful how they voice complaints about parenting of their child to the family of the other parent, especially if that family are the type who have a member who is in the habit of waving a gun and threatening you to shut up. The police are not well positioned to deal with situations of concerns about child safety and they and the courts often get it wrong, sometimes by not believing when there is a serious problem, but sometimes making the opposite mistake.

<modsnip: Stop with the excessive emojis.>

I don't think Josh had much choice regarding doing more than voicing a concern, and even that has its risks.

<modsnip>

Nobody knows that Josh voiced a concern. Friends get it wrong when talking to media, and reporters get it wrong when talking to friends. The alleged quote was made after it was quite clear that Gus was not safe, so if something to that effect was said, it could have been the perception after Gus was reported missing.

The situation with a reporter passing gates and no trespassing signs to attempt to talk to Josie while she had a gun in her hand is literally on video. There is no brandishing of the gun, there are not threats except to involve LE in trespassing. There is no reason to jump from that scenario, where the reporter was very much in the wrong, to assume that Josie has a violent nature. If anything, if she was prone to violence, you would think she would have aimed or fired the gun that was in her hand.

Josie's words were angry to the reporter. Yet she failed to use violence that was literally at her fingertips. That episode did not reveal a violent nature; it revealed a person in the typical control of anger we expect from gun owners.

There is no evidence that Josh was negligent. But if what is being suggested above is true, if he had concerns, and did not act on them, THAT would be negligent. Even if, as you allege, courts are slow.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Having trouble quoting tonight; re: gerardo20 post upthread:

I have missed the information <snip out rumor>?

IMO, no, because there have been no such reports. It's a rumor.

She was verbally angry with a trespassing reporter who crossed a lot of ground and had to know very well they were trespassing. And, it was very public that the family is private; there was no excuse for the reporter.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

IMO, it’s unfathomable that Oak Park, a sheep station of some 60,000 hectares (148,000 acres), is managed by two septuagenarians with what appears to be help at times from the mum of a four-year-old and a baby.

^^ This.

 

[Ruminations]

Yes, I understand. But doesn't the father have to be on the Birth Certificate ?

A man can't just register himself and claim paternity though, can he?

In the US a woman can register a birth without mentioning the father. In Australia, the father also has to register the birth, from what I see posted by Australians. Thus, paternity would be established in a much higher proportion of births from birth.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I’m not a violent person but let someone from the media approach my house if my kid is missing and you best hold my bag cause I’m taking them out.

Protection. Of what yet for Josie we don’t know. IMO it’s protecting Shannon but truly we have no idea at this point

Yet, Josie didn't "take out" anyone. She yelled.

It takes mind-gymnastics to conclude she is violent from that.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Yet, Josie didn't "take out" anyone. She yelled.

It takes mind-gymnastics to conclude she is violent from that.

MOO

But I don't think the speculation that Josie might be volatile is only because of the rifle incident on the porch.

I think it is because of the recent statements from the authorities, basically accusing one of the grandmothers with involvement in Gus's disappearance. Given that information from LE, people are going to speculate. And with that info, the incident on the porch looks even more revealing and potentially important. At the very least it appears to be someone who is impatient and can be threatening when angry. imo

 

[Raina_the_observer]

IMO, it’s unfathomable that Oak Park, a sheep station of some 60,000 hectares (148,000 acres), is managed by two septuagenarians with what appears to be help at times from the mum of a four-year-old and a baby.

Does not surprise me at all, the size of the property and, most importantly, the reported stocking numbers would indicate the enterprise would not support the dollars required to employ staff.

I wonder if they used an agricultural drone for herding? Google tells me: Agricultural drones typically carry payloads between 10 kg and 50+ kg (22–110+ lbs) for spraying and spreading, with advanced, heavy-lift models like the DJI Agras T100 or specialized units capable of lifting up to 100 kg to 150 kg.

Drones of that capability are expensive and require extensive training to operate. They are used more for work with high value crops than sparsely stocked un-improved sheep grazing country. I doubt that this station would be using them. I am sure if they had them, there would be media photos in the fist days of the search of the drone in the air.

^^ This.

Welcome the the brutal reality of the economics of agriculture in Australia today.

Vast majority of farmers are now over or approaching retirement age and the next generation is unwilling to sacrifice so much to keep the farm going.

 

[LookingForClues]

The farming situation is the same here in the US. The children don't want to take over the family farm. It is very difficult nowadays to make farming profitable. Here in Vermont, we do have many people in their 70s and 80s running farms, and eventually they sell their milkers and say goodbye to a way of life that is not as enticing as it used to be. It's a heartbreaking decision that I'm only familiar with because I have friends and neighbors who have faced it head on.

 

[katydid23]

The farming situation is the same here in the US. The children don't want to take over the family farm. It is very difficult nowadays to make farming profitable. Here in Vermont, we do have many people in their 70s and 80s running farms, and eventually they sell their milkers and say goodbye to a way of life that is not as enticing as it used to be. It's a heartbreaking decision that I'm only familiar with because I have friends and neighbors who have faced it head on.

We had a lot of farms and ranches in my extended family---my grandparents, three of my uncles all had large working farms.

NONE of my cousins ended up staying on to work the farms or the ranch. The land was eventually sold.