Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Spooks-R-Us]

Absolutely. Its my personal opinion that ON/ON meant their position only & I think everything on BLF would have been inoperable before it hit the bottom. I may be one of the few that has bi-passed the weather debate entirely too as it has always been my belief that the ocean was rough & the car didnt stand a chance, no doubt going into the ocean the same night. Perhaps one day the photo I know exists & Ive seen, that was taken from below the SLSC before the car was retrieved will surface.
In saying that, IC has said that their beliefs about the lights & the time the car entered the water was due to knowledge obtained from people that saw the car in the water and from the results of the battery having been tested which of course can not be proved to us, but may well be correct also. We can only go by MSM obviously, yet we know it often yields info that is untrue.

I'm guessing the Cott SLSC clubbies were quite knowledgeable about their own patch of surf and turf. But just because they didn't notice the Fiat in the water before it was found on the Wednesday, doesn't mean the Fiat wasn't actually in the water since early hours of Monday morning.

What IC describes at "witness" accounts is misleading, because these so called "witnesses" only saw the car being retrieved from the water. They also claim to have NOT seen the car in the water before Wednesday. But these hearsay accounts do nothing to prove when the car entered the water.
These "witnesses" did NOT see car entering the water, so therefore these "witnesses" are NOT knowledgeable witnesses at all with respect to what day/time the Fiat entered the water.

JMO


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[Canning Vale]

Hi Spooks - yes unclipping the back seat when hiding in the car makes sense. That would be a reason for the seat to float out of car in the ocean. MOO

Most of the older cars were easy to dislodge the back seat. Perhaps, at the Parmelia car park, the perp. removed the back seat to place JC into the boot. Trapping her for the ride.

Also, what if JC was too scared to go home but went to stay somewhere else. I'd be scared to go home if I was recently followed and burgled.

 

[Canning Vale]

As I live near Canning Vale prison, I often see the prison vans out and about. I suppose taking the prisoners to and from court - I don't know where else they'd take them.

Wednesday morning I'll keep a look out for BREs van and let you all know ASAP, what time and whether it's police escorted etc.

Regards CV

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm guessing the Cott SLSC clubbies were quite knowledgeable about their own patch of surf and turf. But just because they didn't notice the Fiat in the water before it was found on the Wednesday, doesn't mean the Fiat wasn't actually in the water since early hours of Monday morning.

What IC describes at "witness" accounts is misleading, because these so called "witnesses" only saw the car being retrieved from the water. They also claim to have NOT seen the car in the water before Wednesday. But these hearsay accounts do nothing to prove when the car entered the water.
These "witnesses" did NOT see car entering the water, so therefore these "witnesses" are NOT knowledgeable witnesses at all with respect to what day/time the Fiat entered the water.

JMO


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Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion when it's stated as opinion. However I'm against anyone using the word "witness" when the people being called witnesses only saw the cleanup of a crime scene. Like the Cott clubbies who saw the Fiat being hauled out of the ocean. To take the word of the clubbies as 'fact' is wrong, as it was only their OPINIONS that stated that if the Fiat was submerged since early Monday morning then they would have noticed.




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[no name]

Thats right Spooks, the clubbies accounts to IC do not PROVE what time the car went into the water. But it is those accounts that formed IC's opinion on when that may have been as they believe the lights were shining brightly ON. If that it is in fact true, & the time taken for the battery discharge offered by Pandit is accurate, it does hold weight that the car had only just been delivered into the ocean, does it not? Hence, me saying that although they can not prove it, it may well be true. Do I agree it likely happened like that, no.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Thats right Spooks, the clubbies accounts to IC do not PROVE what time the car went into the water. But it is those accounts that formed IC's opinion on when that may have been as they believe the lights were shining brightly ON. If that it is in fact true, & the time taken for the battery discharge offered by Pandit is accurate, it does hold weight that the car had only just been delivered into the ocean, does it not? Hence, me saying that although they can not prove it, it may well be true. Do I agree it likely happened like that, no.

Where was it confirmed that "lights on" meant that lights were shining light?
And not just turned in "on" position?


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[Pandit]

Frankston serial killer Paul Denyer was an opportunist, hid in the back seat of a woman's car when she ran into a shop and she didn't see him there on getting back to the car, he killed her. Most of his victims he blitz attacked getting off a bus, walking through a park but he was also prepared to attack them in their homes. He took it out on their pets if they weren't there.

His MO was not always the same, he used a fake gun sometimes, a knife and sometimes ligatures.

He's cross dressing in prison now and in 2013 applied for a sex change operation. Not sure how that panned out ...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...k=c4ab6482c7929a550037cbf9a2558d12-1508663168

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...k=c4ab6482c7929a550037cbf9a2558d12-1508664096





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Most of the older cars were easy to dislodge the back seat. Perhaps, at the Parmelia car park, the perp. removed the back seat to place JC into the boot. Trapping her for the ride.

Also, what if JC was too scared to go home but went to stay somewhere else. I'd be scared to go home if I was recently followed and burgled.

 

[DRT]

I've read that JC didn't smoke, but there were cigarettes found in her ashtray. It would be interesting to know whose they were.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103679664

The findagrave site has a site with an article from the Post Newspapers "by Romy Ranali, post.com.au"

Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught.
"With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said. "They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need."

The quote as it stands is ambiguous it could be interpreted as "we know Julie didn't smoke" or They were from a type of cigarette that Julie didn't smoke. I would be leaning towards the latter.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103679664

The findagrave site has a site with an article from the Post Newspapers "by Romy Ranali, post.com.au"

Rachel said the family hoped new evidence would lead to the perpetrator being caught.
"With advances in technology, we hope DNA can be obtained off cigarette filters that were found in Julie's car," she said. "They were from a type of cigarette we know Julie didn't smoke and it might prove to be the lead we need."

The quote as it stands is ambiguous it could be interpreted as "we know Julie didn't smoke" or They were from a type of cigarette that Julie didn't smoke. I would be leaning towards the latter.

I interpret that statement to mean that JC was a smoker, and the butt/s found in Fiat's ashtray were a different brand than her usual brand. Whether she 'bummed' a cigarette because she had run out, or it belonged to the rubbish conscious (Clean Australia) perpetrator that may have killed her.

Also the butt/s maybe were in ashtray for days or weeks beforehand. Who knows.


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[meticulously]

No evidence of anyone being in the car. Article said there was no one in the vehicle. Police said there is no evidence that it was driven into the ocean or that Julie was in it when it went in. It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Petedavo :
"It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far."
________________________________

Petedavo the car was found underwater afaik, i think the car was just that bit further out, than that of an easily explainable freak occurence .
We would have more than likely found out by now with all the brains on here & ideas but no , not many likely theories so far imo .
So it wouldn't be a "Freak wave", no other cars have done the same .
Experts have identified the two windows of time where powerful ocean conditions occured .
Early AM on 20 & 22 june ,
Midnight until Dawn .
Some smart sleuths are discussing this at the moment, the lights on etc .
Could it be that the car went in on the tues night ?
Well done , good enquiries, Thank you all . Especially to the sleuths talking about the lights, battery, backseat etc .

 

[Canning Vale]

I interpret that statement to mean that JC was a smoker, and the butt/s found in Fiat's ashtray were a different brand than her usual brand. Whether she 'bummed' a cigarette because she had run out, or it belonged to the rubbish conscious (Clean Australia) perpetrator that may have killed her.

Also the butt/s maybe were in ashtray for days or weeks beforehand. Who knows.


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Many thanks. I must have read the cigarette part very quickly and misunderstood.

When you think about it, we know what people smoke but don't take any notice of what brand.

Out of my daughter's friends I wouldn't know what they smoked.

 

[Pandit]

If the headlights were still beaming, there would be taillights. There are none, they're as dead as a doornail.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

If the headlights were still beaming, there would be taillights. There are none, they're as dead as a doornail.

Exactly


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[meticulously]

I interpret that statement to mean that JC was a smoker, and the butt/s found in Fiat's ashtray were a different brand than her usual brand. Whether she 'bummed' a cigarette because she had run out, or it belonged to the rubbish conscious (Clean Australia) perpetrator that may have killed her.

Also the butt/s maybe were in ashtray for days or weeks beforehand. Who knows.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

"I interpret that statement to mean that JC was a smoker, and the butt/s found in Fiat's ashtray were a different brand than her usual brand."

Yeah Spooks agreed !

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Many thanks. I must have read the cigarette part very quickly and misunderstood.

When you think about it, we know what people smoke but don't take any notice of what brand.

Out of my daughter's friends I wouldn't know what they smoked.

That's true.
But if cops asked the shop assistant at the corner Deli closest to JC's house where she probably bought cigarettes regularly, I bet the shop assistant would/might know!


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
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[DRT]

"I interpret that statement to mean that JC was a smoker, and the butt/s found in Fiat's ashtray were a different brand than her usual brand." Yeah Spooks agreed !

I had this conversation a while ago in PM which is why I could come up with the article fairly easily. We were of the conclusion that she was a smoker. There were also reports to say she was not a smoker. Like many things reported at the time with JC, there was a lot of inaccuracies. In both instances if there was any DNA on the cigarettes the scenario would be that it was not JC smoking them unless she had borrowed one. May indicate a second person in the car in any case. Spooks, I worked in a Supermarket about the time of JC's disappearance when prices were a lot cheaper. I tended to know the brand and type that people bought if they were regular customers.

 

[Canning Vale]

I had this conversation a while ago in PM which is why I could come up with the article fairly easily. We were of the conclusion that she was a smoker. There were also reports to say she was not a smoker. Like many things reported at the time with JC, there was a lot of inaccuracies. In both instances if there was any DNA on the cigarettes the scenario would be that it was not JC smoking them unless she had borrowed one. May indicate a second person in the car in any case. Spooks, I worked in a Supermarket about the time of JC's disappearance when prices were a lot cheaper. I tended to know the brand and type that people bought if they were regular customers.

As that is the case, JC being a smoker, the only item which someone would probably stop for on route home would be cigarettes. Whilst travelling home from Parmelia she would have known how many she had left. She may have stopped at a deli, garage or a hotel's vending machine.

Also, might have been low on petrol and looked somewhere to fuel up.

Alternatively, once home, and realizing she didn't have any milk someone would probably go back out for milk. From the local deli or garage on roster.

For those that don't realize, back in 1988 garage's opened, after hours on a roster system - except the one in Perth and domestic airport.

These are just a couple of thoughts.

 

[Pandit]

As that is the case, JC being a smoker, the only item which someone would probably stop for on route home would be cigarettes. Whilst travelling home from Parmelia she would have known how many she had left. She may have stopped at a deli, garage or a hotel's vending machine.

Also, might have been low on petrol and looked somewhere to fuel up.

Alternatively, once home, and realizing she didn't have any milk someone would probably go back out for milk. From the local deli or garage on roster.

For those that don't realize, back in 1988 garage's opened, after hours on a roster system - except the one in Perth and domestic airport.

These are just a couple of thoughts.

Good thinking CV. Didn't LW's parents have a garage just up the road?

 

[Canning Vale]

Good thinking CV. Didn't LW's parents have a garage just up the road?

I'm not sure if LWs parents had a garage. If JCs car was low on petrol she may have needed to divert to fuel up. She would have been in a bad spot if she'd ran out of petrol - no mobile phones back then. Perhaps she actually ran out and a predator stopped to assist.

 

[Innerchild]

If the headlights were still beaming, there would be taillights. There are none, they're as dead as a doornail.

The reports say the headlights were on when the car entered the water. Also it was found with its headlights on! That wouldn't be the case many our later after it was retrieved. Both these articles have been posted many times before and while some information seemed to change this was always constant.

And yes talking with first hand witness's that saw the car in the water and when retrieved, I believe that the car was only in the ocean a matter of hours before it was found.

Daily Mail late June 1988 Police seek 2 in car puzzle by Steve Manchee

Police forensic tests have shown that when the car entered the water the ignition and lights were turned on …

The West Australian July 8th 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped

....They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on,…

… Miss Cutler did not smoke and was not a regular drinker….