Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[papertrail]

the 3 Dorrough family members - mother, father and Richard Dorrough are buried in the "FC" section of Karrakatta which is the Wesleyan section of Karrakatta - if is situated very close to the rear of the cemetery adjacent to the Karrakatta rape victim location (as described). Could this 'wesleyan' connection hint that Dorrough was raised in a strict household ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyanism

 

[papertrail]

How do you make a fake taxi? You need a roof sign, some door signs, maybe some fake taxi plates, if fake plates were policed ever

Oh, and you need a car. What happens if you lose your taxi licence, but you own a cab? Were taxi roof lights laying around the local panel beaters?

1996 media reports stated that there was no onus on the owners or operators of degregistered taxi vehicles to remove signage etc. Think it would have been a different scenario with taxi plates though because it is the plates that are of value as part of the taxi operators' license. The shakeup of the industry back in 1996 / 1997 was also supported by legislation or regulation to 'clean' vehicles before disposal; that is to strip of all prior taxi related logos / stickers etc / meters etc.

Yes there were deregistered taxi vehicles laying around panel beaters and in card yards and the like.

 

[papertrail]

Yeah, you are right. There is no media source to support that.

Without a media or police source, not that police are going to come out with operational information stating, yeah, we know these crimes are connected because the perpetrator has left clues for us to connect the crimes. Well have to wait for a trial that will never happen because it is so high profile, it will never be able to proceed, especially with those POIs cleared of not having DNA on the crime scene connected with the Karrakatta rape.

Unfortunately, without a source, no matter how reliable info it maybe, cant put it in here, because it is not considered reliable.

Would a hospital not do rape testing on a girl who runs to the hospital doors naked? Straight from the crime scene?

Remember, police have motive. That must give police reasonable clue to who it may be.

Would the police have motive before the perpetrator / s are arrested and their (the perp's) explanations given. I don't believe so ! Many many times perpetrators of crimes do not divulge to police what their motive was.

 

[papertrail]

1. It's not a waste of time and money at all. There's almost no doubt that they didn't have a DNA profile in the first 10 years or so. There's a couple of good reasons to collect DNA even if they don't have a profile; a) In case through tech advances a profile becomes available, and b) to make POIs think they have a sample

2. No one said they had a rape kit straight away. This was speculated in a discussion. She ran to a hospital. It's likely they took samples.

3. It's not definite the cases are connected. Again - this is reported by media. The first report claimed "forensic link", the second "DNA link". The whole blitz attack theory is also media driven and potentially an extrapolation of the Karra link.

Media reports in 1996 with quotes of Ferguson stating they believed the victims were 'blitz attacked' shows it is NOT media driven. Blitz attack doesn't mean the attack occurred on the street. What it can mean it that the victim was attacked by surprise. That could have eventuated in the vehicle after he gained the victim's confidence enough to enter his vehicle.

 

[papertrail]

1. It's not a waste of time and money at all. There's almost no doubt that they didn't have a DNA profile in the first 10 years or so. There's a couple of good reasons to collect DNA even if they don't have a profile; a) In case through tech advances a profile becomes available, and b) to make POIs think they have a sample

2. No one said they had a rape kit straight away. This was speculated in a discussion. She ran to a hospital. It's likely they took samples.

3. It's not definite the cases are connected. Again - this is reported by media. The first report claimed "forensic link", the second "DNA link". The whole blitz attack theory is also media driven and potentially an extrapolation of the Karra link.

Didn't the fundraising foundation raise the funds the import the DNA testing equipment to assist WA Police after Ciara Glennon's disappearance and discovery ? Taxi drivers voluntarily handed over their DNA to police didn't they. From my understanding of the relative legislation with taxi drivers voluntarily handing over DNA samples, these samples cannot be used to convict or results used at trial. DNA collected must be done under stringent circumstances and only if the person is a person of interest in a crime. With all these 1000s of taxi drivers voluntarily handing over their DNA, did this episode put WA police and DPP in a difficult position legally ? I also noted that when the WA police obtained the DNA from Lance Williams, it was done in the back of a police vehicle immediately after he was removed from his vehicle and being driven to police HQ in April 1998 (described by LW in a couple of articles) so this may have also compromised the ability of WA police to use the DNA in a prosecution.

 

[papertrail]

would DNA obtained from chemically treated hair (eg dyed) or degraded hair and the inability to obtain a full forensic DNA profile, could that then be described as a forensic link instead of DNA link or vice versa as was described by The Post articles ?

 

[papertrail]

Here is the news article that contains a lot of information on Richard Edward Dorrough obtained via the 1-day coroner's inquest (re Sara Lee Davey's disappearance) held in Broome April 2016.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...rd-dorrough-behind-broome-womans-disa/7304038

 

[papertrail]

in The Post article Steven Ross did not mention 'blond haired guy'; this colour description was only detailed in the 2004 news article.

We do not know that "MACRO approached him 12 months ago asking about the blonde guy" - the detail in the Ross letter only stated "two detectives". We only know, from the correspondence detail printed in The Post, that Ross detailed that two detectives visited him about 12 months ago. And we must trust that the version printed in The Post is not abridged in any way.

What I have noticed about Dorrough is that a couple of photographs show him with lighter hair. I've also mentioned this before and that is when does the colour brown change to blonde ? Many people have a different perception and would describe light brown as being blonde, and dark blonde as being light brown etc.

BTW earlier articles did detail that the man that traveled with Sarah Spiers to the Windsor had pushed Sarah out of the vehicle and that he had paid the cab fare. It was also stated that (Ross has said) the guy with Sarah had wanted to go clubbing in Perth (central).

Interesting (now) is that Ross has indicated that Sarah had changed her mind about going to Mosman Park.

The date Ross is referring to must be the night of 25 January or early morning 26 January. Therefore Sarah has gone back to Club Bayview after the Australia Day celebrations firstly to OBH then to Club Bayview on the night of 26, left early am on the early morning of 27 January. She had phoned her sister Amanda whilst at the OBH and Amanda picked Sarah and her friends up and transported them to Claremont. Was it Amanda who had a connection to someone in Mosman Park and that is why she'd made the quick trip to the OBH to pick up Sarah ? Amanda and Sarah shared the flat accommodation in South Perth.

I wish Ross had given his perception of age of this guy with Sarah !

 

[Bartholemeus]

Media reports in 1996 with quotes of Ferguson stating they believed the victims were 'blitz attacked' shows it is NOT media driven. Blitz attack doesn't mean the attack occurred on the street. What it can mean it that the victim was attacked by surprise. That could have eventuated in the vehicle after he gained the victim's confidence enough to enter his vehicle.

1. Can you provide a link for that

2. In the context of this subject (the CSK) there have been 2 main opposing theories; a) the girls got into a car willingly, and b) the girls were blitz attacked and then forced into a vehicle (i.e. Karra abduction). Blitz attack has never referred to the girls willingly getting into a car and then being attacked.

 

[JackHigh]

1. Can you provide a link for that

2. In the context of this subject (the CSK) there have been 2 main opposing theories; a) the girls got into a car willingly, and b) the girls were blitz attacked and then forced into a vehicle (i.e. Karra abduction). Blitz attack has never referred to the girls willingly getting into a car and then being attacked.

BBM, why not? Like you said they are just theories, why does one carry weight and the other not.
Who decided it couldnt possibly refer to that?

This is what i dont understand, there WAS an attack on a woman from Claremont by a person hiding in the back of a taxi.
If that is not willingly getting in and then being attacked and that doesnt constitute a blitz, i dont know what does.

I just dont get it, there is an almost identicle attack which occurs in a taxi by two men, in the same area.
This screams CSK like no other incident.

 

[firestarter]

Claremont's calendar of tragedy

1994, October: A woman (31) entered a taxi near Club Bayview. A man hiding in the back of the taxi grabbed her. She jumped out and broke her leg.
1994, New Year's Day: A man dragged a woman from her car after she left Club Bayview. He attempted to sexually assault her but she fought him off.

1995, February: A girl (17) left Club Bayview - she was tied with electrical cord and left for dead in Karrakatta Cemetery. She had been abducted walking home from the club.

1996 (Jan 27): Sarah Ellen Spiers (18) - never found - first to go missing. She left Club Bayview - last seen in telephone booth, Stirling Highway, Claremont. Police believe a golden sunflower key ring may help find Sarah.

1996 (May 3): Woman (21) indecently assaulted in laneway behind Club Bayview. 2am assailant ripped her skirt off and her head was bashed against a wall six times before she fled.

1996 (Jun 8): Jane Louise Rimmer (23) found murdered in bushland at Wellard, 35km south of Perth, last seen Continental Hotel.

1997 (Mar 14): Ciara Eilish Glennon (27) disappeared from Stirling Highway, Claremont. Had been at the Continental Hotel that night. Body found at Eglinton, 45km north of Perth, on April 3. Missing from the body: a silver Claddagh brooch.

2000 (Nov 8): Sarah McMahon (20) disappeared. Left her Stirling Highway workplace 5pm Friday, disappeared, her car found abandoned at Swan Districts Hosp

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Spiers.htm


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[firestarter]

Just because she was seen in another area the police discount a link.
Yeah I suppose the csk only wanted to take girls from Claremont.


http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Spiers.htm
Sgt Stanley denied there was any link between the Claremont cases and the disappearance of Sarah McMahon (20), who was last seen leaving her Stirling Highway workplace at 5pm on November 8 last year.

He said they had not seriously looked at a link with the previous Claremont murders and disappearance because Miss McMahon's whereabouts had been confirmed in another area after she had left Claremont.


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[JackHigh]

Claremont's calendar of tragedy

1994, October: A woman (31) entered a taxi near Club Bayview. A man hiding in the back of the taxi grabbed her. She jumped out and broke her leg. Oops, a failed attempt left a witness.

1994, New Year's Day: A man dragged a woman from her car after she left Club Bayview. He attempted to sexually assault her but she fought him off. Oops, another failed attempt left a witness again.

1995, February: A girl (17) left Club Bayview - she was tied with electrical cord and left for dead in Karrakatta Cemetery. She had been abducted walking home from the club. Got this one, no witnesses...Oops, despie leaving her for dead, she's a witness, better wait and see what happens, this witness thing has to stop...

1996 (Jan 27): Sarah Ellen Spiers (18) - never found - first to go missing. She left Club Bayview - last seen in telephone booth, Stirling Highway, Claremont. Police believe a golden sunflower key ring may help find Sarah. No witnesses here...

1996 (May 3): Woman (21) indecently assaulted in laneway behind Club Bayview. 2am assailant ripped her skirt off and her head was bashed against a wall six times before she fled. Oops, think i'll go back to what works best...

1996 (Jun 8): Jane Louise Rimmer (23) found murdered in bushland at Wellard, 35km south of Perth, last seen Continental Hotel. Back on track...

1997 (Mar 14): Ciara Eilish Glennon (27) disappeared from Stirling Highway, Claremont. Had been at the Continental Hotel that night. Body found at Eglinton, 45km north of Perth, on April 3. Missing from the body: a silver Claddagh brooch. Like a swiss watch...Oops, lucky we missed hitting that bricklayer but the heat is rising...might have a spell.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Spiers.htm


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BBM
5chars

 

[Parkie]

MM had probably been to a crack house before he walked past Conti.

Your credibility is cracking with this one Barth.

 

[lampformypath]

First time poster, been following for months now. Very interested in this case and grateful for all the input. Some wonderful detective work happening on here. I've been doing a lot of research of my own, but thought I'd share this that I found today from an ABC interview some years back about CSK and in particular, towards the middle and end of this interview, there is some great (well I think it is anyway) scientific info about DNA.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ge-of-our-convictions---the-claremont/3473202

Hope that link came up o.k. haven't done this before!
Keep up the great work everyone!

 

[crabstick]

The police would DNA test Dorrough and clear him in a second just like they have the hundreds of POIs,taxis etc.

In Dorrough's mind he wasn't responsible for Campbell's murder because he was NOT convicted of that murder at trial. They never got Dorrough to trial over the Davey murder so in his mind (again) he was not her murderer. You are only a murder when convicted of such a heinous crime. Given the circumstances of what occurred on the Davey night, he may have also convinced himself that her death was an accident not murder. So that leaves 3 girls - Claremont girls. But I think he is reponsible for a couple more.

 

[crabstick]

Taxi plates were like $100000 plus interest. When you consider the saving on that type of loan in 1996 with 12% interest on a loan. Thats not bad extra earnings not having to purchase taxi plates. What was the average wage in 1996? $30000?

1996 media reports stated that there was no onus on the owners or operators of degregistered taxi vehicles to remove signage etc. Think it would have been a different scenario with taxi plates though because it is the plates that are of value as part of the taxi operators' license. The shakeup of the industry back in 1996 / 1997 was also supported by legislation or regulation to 'clean' vehicles before disposal; that is to strip of all prior taxi related logos / stickers etc / meters etc.

Yes there were deregistered taxi vehicles laying around panel beaters and in card yards and the like.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Welcome LFMP,

Thanks for your post. May I ask the City in which you currently reside, and if you've had any connection with the Claremont area?

P

 

[crabstick]

Ill find the motive statement. I read it about 3 weeks ago somewhere.

This is not the piece. But it does start with police understanding motives. What I read said clearly, exactly "Police have motive". It is in an image, which does not make it 'searchable'

Would the police have motive before the perpetrator / s are arrested and their (the perp's) explanations given. I don't believe so ! Many many times perpetrators of crimes do not divulge to police what their motive was.

 

[Bartholemeus]

BBM, why not?

Because police don't know whether the girls got into a car or were abducted on the street. That is what is up for conjecture.

In such a context, you can't call an attack after the girls got into a car a blitz attack.

Who decided it couldnt possibly refer to that?

Captain Commonsense

I just dont get it

I know.