GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[nursebeeme]

ACTIVE SEARCH Austrailia: Riley Martin (Graham), 4y/o, missing little boy with Down's Syndrome - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

off topic: but still relevant to the missing persons forum; thread started on little Riley who is missing in Australia. He has down's syndrome.

(link above)

 

[Love Coco]

http://progress-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/hunt-for-sex-offender/

:banghead: too many of these sickos around!

 

[possumheart]

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Why-I-organized-30000-strong-Jill-Meagher-march-in-Melbourne-Australia-172445181.html?mob-ua=Y
Why I organized 30,000 strong Jill Meagher march in Melbourne, Australia


]In hindsight, the whole experience feels very ephemeral and yet powerful at the same time. All these souls, beings of light, came together, marched in a silent, peaceful show of the strength of hope, nonviolence and love, and then vanished again, taking with them a brighter flame than with which they came. Like a wide, wide river that chose for a moment to channel itself through a ravine, running slow and very, very deep, before spreading out again over the land, refreshed and charged.

 

[macsleuth]

I'm new to this and may be wish off the mark, but if you consider the comments of the police and journalists post arrest, and take into account the reports of the neighbours, it would seem to me that JM was abducted from an unspecified location in Sydney Rd/Hope Street and possibly taken to the alleged offenders residence where the assault and possibly murder took place. That would explain the timeline being the abduction in Brunswick some time between 145am and 150am with the subsequent arrival at a Coburg address at 200am (as reported by the neighbours). It could also give some meaning to "he used his own shovel" i.e one from his residence (I doubt he had the shovel in his vehicle if the reports that it was an opportunistic attack as reported by the police is true). Returning to the residence where a prolonged attack may have occurred also goes some way to explaining the reporters horror at what they were told at the briefing. This theory depends largely on the neighbours report of a car arriving at the alleged offenders residence shortly after the CCTV footage in Sydney Rd but i see no reason to doubt the validity of their statements.

Sorry to rant but i think there is definitely more to this than has been reported thus far.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Why-I-organized-30000-strong-Jill-Meagher-march-in-Melbourne-Australia-172445181.html?mob-ua=Y
Why I organized 30,000 strong Jill Meagher march in Melbourne, Australia


]In hindsight, the whole experience feels very ephemeral and yet powerful at the same time. All these souls, beings of light, came together, marched in a silent, peaceful show of the strength of hope, nonviolence and love, and then vanished again, taking with them a brighter flame than with which they came. Like a wide, wide river that chose for a moment to channel itself through a ravine, running slow and very, very deep, before spreading out again over the land, refreshed and charged.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...to_lead_the_jill_meagher_march_in_my_opinion/
Andrew Bolt blog.

'Not the man to lead the Jill Meagher march, in my opinion'

Yes, a lovely gesture:

Tens of thousands of people have rallied in inner Melbourne to mourn Jill Meagher, grieving her horrific death, and urging harmony and an end to violence in the community…
Local resident Philip Werner, who organised the march, led the procession with a banner that read “Choosing peace, hope, non-violence and solidarity with all women”.

But that’s Philip Werner, as in the professional photographer of whose bondage pictures, several graphic, I dare show only the most “demure”:

The model in one picture even looks like a bound woman dug out from the earth, perhaps a grave. And the sentiments expressed are a bit ... off

 

[Berry]

KG that "presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill"....did I hear that or is that linked, I am sure I read it somewhere.

Angeline, sorry to quote KG1 (previously) and now myself, but the area where Jill was found is somewhere chosen and may have been for a reason.
Hope the police do not find any others.

 

[moreinfo]

I'm new to this and may be wish off the mark, but if you consider the comments of the police and journalists post arrest, and take into account the reports of the neighbours, it would seem to me that JM was abducted from an unspecified location in Sydney Rd/Hope Street and possibly taken to the alleged offenders residence where the assault and possibly murder took place. That would explain the timeline being the abduction in Brunswick some time between 145am and 150am with the subsequent arrival at a Coburg address at 200am (as reported by the neighbours). It could also give some meaning to "he used his own shovel" i.e one from his residence (I doubt he had the shovel in his vehicle if the reports that it was an opportunistic attack as reported by the police is true). Returning to the residence where a prolonged attack may have occurred also goes some way to explaining the reporters horror at what they were told at the briefing. This theory depends largely on the neighbours report of a car arriving at the alleged offenders residence shortly after the CCTV footage in Sydney Rd but i see no reason to doubt the validity of their statements.

Sorry to rant but i think there is definitely more to this than has been reported thus far.

but remember he lived at home with his partner? in a bungalowbehind a main house at the front.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

but remember he lived at home with his partner? in a bungalowbehind a main house at the front.

And the landlady said she didn't hear the cars that night.

 

[LeoBear]

:banghead:H

That's an interesting theory too. My thought was that after their encounter outside Duchess Boutique, he walked ahead of her and turned onto Hope Street as though he was going to leave her alone. She dawdled behind very slowly, speaking on her phone to allow for him to get a safe distance ahead (safe enough for her to pick up pace again.)

Your theory would explain why no-one seemed to hear/see anything unusual, even in the laneway where "Sally" the resident didn't notice anything suspicious (where the handbag was found).

I too think he had watched her before and knew her route home. I mean, how did he know she would turn onto Hope St? The other young lady in the article posted here mentioned that she had encountered a similar man twice over a matter of weeks, as though she was singled out.

The only other way he could know where Jill lived was if he had used his, "Someone's following you" spiel and she had accidentally said, "Oh, I'll be OK. I live just around the corner."

Personally, I think he'd been planning to murder for some time. The women who had encountered (what they believe) was the same offender, both said they were sure they would be killed (the backpacker and the aforementioned woman who was approached by him twice over the weeks.)

Thanks. It's possible but in my mind, it still leaves too much to chance. There is always the possibility that they will meet someone on the way to JMs home - a witness or someone who will rescue her. He can't mitigate against this. No. I think he has to subdue her somehow. This needs to be done either through stealth or wit. He either threatens her with the gun some of us believes he has with him in front of the bridal shop and/or he says that he has an accomplice that has her husband - which they will kill if she doesn't go with him. [I assuming here she has a wedding band ...] So she gets into his car and the rest is history. This is just a theory of course but in the absence of a weapon, a ruse or physically knocking her down with his car, I can't see how he can subdue her in a public place with the possibility of witnesses. It doesn't make sense.

 

[macsleuth]

but remember he lived at home with his partner? in a bungalowbehind a main house at the front.

Yes true but has there been anything to suggest the partner was there that night?....possibly out for an evening?

Also is there any defined time on the tollway records to say when he passed under the toll gantries? That would certainly go a long way towards providing a time line of events.

The returning to residence is my interpretation of a series of comments by the police, reporters and neighbours and as mentioned is probably off the mark but worth considering just the same.

 

[FruitTingles]

Yes true but has there been anything to suggest the partner was there that night?....possibly out for an evening?

Also is there any defined time on the tollway records to say when he passed under the toll gantries? That would certainly go a long way towards providing a time line of events.

The returning to residence is my interpretation of a series of comments by the police, reporters and neighbours and as mentioned is probably off the mark but worth considering just the same.

Welcome Macsleuth!

 

[Blue Bottle]

but remember he lived at home with his partner? in a bungalowbehind a main house at the front.

Also, if that was the case, to what I understand, the house would have been sealed off as a crime site and would have been swarming with cops at some stage... something which hasn't been reported by either the media or by anyone who lives either at the house or close by.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Also, if that was the case, to what I understand, the house would have been sealed off as a crime site and would have been swarming with cops at some stage... something which hasn't been reported by either the media or by anyone who lives either at the house or close by.

Police doing all this searching at Gisborne is a worry.

 

[macsleuth]

but remember he lived at home with his partner? in a bungalowbehind a main house at the front.

Very very true....I know that the exact address of the house has been suppressed but in saying that you would assume as you say that there would at the very least be some media commentary to that effect.

That being the case the crime scene would have to be his car or an unspecified location presumably between where the abduction occurred and where JM was subsequently located after the arrest.

I also can't help but keep thinking back to a reported attempted abduction in the same area earlier this year where the perp (not suggesting same offender) was said to have thrown some type of liquid substance into a female victims face to possibly try and disable/stun them.

Clutching at straws perhaps but it seems inconceivable that JM was simply abducted from a busy area (albeit it at night) and taken away without any signs or evidence of a struggle taking place as advised by police during the initial investigation.

 

[LeoBear]

Very very true....I know that the exact address of the house has been suppressed but in saying that you would assume as you say that there would at the very least be some media commentary to that effect.

That being the case the crime scene would have to be his car or an unspecified location presumably between where the abduction occurred and where JM was subsequently located after the arrest.

I also can't help but keep thinking back to a reported attempted abduction in the same area earlier this year where the perp (not suggesting same offender) was said to have thrown some type of liquid substance into a female victims face to possibly try and disable/stun them.

Clutching at straws perhaps but it seems inconceivable that JM was simply abducted from a busy area (albeit it at night) and taken away without any signs or evidence of a struggle taking place as advised by police during the initial investigation.

Exactly my point in an earlier post. He was alone - so it wasn't an ambush as in the Anita Cobby case. It wasn't indoors - where she was asleep and couldn't get away - like the sorority killings by Ted Bundy. And, as far as we know, this was a fledgling killing. He's leaving a lot to chance. As you say. In a public area that she knows better than him because she lives there.

 

[Maigret]

Exactly my point in an earlier post. He was alone - so it wasn't an ambush as in the Anita Cobby case. It wasn't indoors - where she was asleep and couldn't get away - like the sorority killings by Ted Bundy. And, as far as we know, this was a fledgling killing. He's leaving a lot to chance. As you say. In a public area that she knows better than him because she lives there.

They could have seized his car - would we necessarily have been informed if they had?

 

[macsleuth]

They could have seized his car - would we necessarily have been informed if they had?

Yes you would think they have seized his car as a matter of due process. I cannot recall that being reported but i am local to Melbourne so perhaps that has been suppressed at this stage.

Perhaps our insterstate/international friends could confirm whether this has been reported in their local media?

 

[fruity]

And the landlady said she didn't hear the cars that night.

Also, the police said that the murder occurred in Brunswick.

 

[KG1]

KG that "presumably somewhere familiar to him to bury Jill"....did I hear that or is that linked, I am sure I read it somewhere.

Berry, I don't know if you did hear or read it somewhere. From my reading of many cases, it is quite common for murderers to dump or bury their victims in areas which may be far away from where the crime was committed, but in an area known to the murderer. Often victims are also taken to an area well away from where they live or were last seen and killed in an area familiar to the killer. A case in point is the Backpacker murders and the killing and leaving of victims in the Belanglo State Forest, an area very familiar to Ivan Milat, but a long distance from where he lived at various times.

 

[DrWatson]

Clutching at straws perhaps but it seems inconceivable that JM was simply abducted from a busy area (albeit it at night) and taken away without any signs or evidence of a struggle taking place as advised by police during the initial investigation.

Not inconceivable at all, actually, <modsnip>

Jill walks around the corner into Hope St heading for home - and Hope St is much darker and quieter than Sydney Rd. As she passes the end of the laneway on the left (she would almost certainly have been walking on that side of the street as that is the side off which Lux Way turns), alleged perp grabs her and a quick king hit uppercut and she's out cold. That would leave no signs of a struggle, as there would be NO struggle. And she dropped her handbag right there, which he didn't see or notice, especially since she probably still had the bigger ABC bag over her shoulder and he probably assumed that was the only one she had.

Then, presumably either assaulted on the ground down the end of that laneway where the grassy bit is, or dragged into his car and raped there.

Nope - not inconceivable at all. The more I ponder it, the more I see this as the most likely scenario.

Whether the murder part was then carried out deliberately somehow, the details of which we don't know, or whether she died from airway obstruction, for example, due to being unconscious, is something that we may know much later. After all, there is a reason why we place people/patients in the semi-prone position if they're unconscious - to protect their airway and keep it open. I doubt the alleged perp even thought of that... and may have been surprised to find she had died. Which may in turn lead to a "Not guilty" plea at least to the murder part...