Australia Australia - Joanne Ratcliffe, 11, & Kirste Gordon, 4, Adelaide, 25 Aug1973

[Cliff Hardy]

ive allways suspected this was the same man who abducted the beumont kids what do others on the thread think the cases are very simlar and happend in the same city but then agian adliade is big enough to have to people with the same predilictions and modus opriandi

We shouldn't discount the possibility but there was seven and a half years between the crimes.

 

[sportstergirl]

It suggests previous experience of child abduction. To abduct 2 girls in broad daylight at a busy sports stadium isn't his first crime. He was confident enough to do this, do we have any similar child abductions before or after this crime? There is a resemblance to the Beaumont childrens disappearance but 7 & 1/2 years is a hell of a long time between crimes. Was he serving a prison sentence, deployed overseas with the military?
Not familiar with Australia or it's crimes, just found this while checking out classic Australian cars & a Ford Falcon led me into Australian true crime!

 

[Markybug]

How a hat could be crucial clue to missing girls, 4 & 11, who vanished at footie

THE small handmade clay ashtray in her spare bedroom isn’t much to look at – but for Suzie Ratcliffe it’s one of her most precious possessions. Her sister Joanne had made it at school f…

www.thesun.co.uk

• Bethan King, 16 Jun 2024
• View attachment 510773
• A police sketch of the man believed to have abducted Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon
• View attachment 510774
• The police sketch bears a striking resemblance to known paedophile Stanley Arthur Hart, who died in 1999
• ''Determined to keep the case in the public eye Joanne has set up a group called Leave a Light On Inc to share Joanne and Kirste’s story and those of other families of missing persons, so their loved ones aren’t forgotten.''

That’s got to be him , especially the ears !

 

[mrC]

many killers have had long pauses between their crimes admittedly 7 and a half years is a very long pause but considering it such a bold sort of crime maybe it took that long for him to have the confidence to do it again and its also not common to get that sort of opportunity young kids on there own with no adult to protect them would be rare even then

 

[worldwatcher]

The Age

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia •
Tue, 10 Jul 1979
Page 6

Inquest on Adelaide Oval girls:

“McCall said investigations had no been able to indenting the person responsible for the abduction.
Mr. Leslie Henry Radcliffe, bread salesman of Munson street,Campbell Town, told the inquest his daughter would not have left the Oval..”on her own steam”.
He criticised a man who he said had refused to use the ground’s broadcasting system to tell of the girls disappearance.
Mr. Radcliffe said there would be a chance in a million of the abduction being prevented if the announcement had been made.
Anthony G.Kilmartin,19,unemployed,of Salisbury,had been selling Ollie’s at the oval.
He said he had to move over for two girls in the Sir Edwin Smithe stand.They walked down the stairs.
Mr. Kilmartin said he had seen a man “running or trotting “ towards the gate.The man had been watching the girls in the stand.
In his police statement he said the man caught up with the girls,lifted the little one and carried her to the gate.
He told the Coroner,Mr.K.B. Ahern,that the bigger girl had looked frightened and grabbed the man. “He told her to”take off” or something,and I thought he must have been a friend and they just had an argument,”he said.(thought the man was the girls father)
He saw the man grab the bigger girl and had gone towards the corner of the tennis courts,near a pine tree.That was the last he had seen of him
Radcliffe told the Inquest that at about 3.50pm Joanne went to the lavatory with Kirste Gordon
At 4.06 pm,when Joanne and Kirste not returned,Mrs.Ratcliffe went to the secretary’s office to report them missing...”
Article clipped from The Age

 

[Cliff Hardy]

As best as I understand the case, there are two main suspects :

1/ Arthur Stanley BROWN - although Brown lived in Brisbane, he travelled a lot and was believed to be in Melbourne in 1973 and perhaps Adelaide in 1973 as well. His own relatives claim he molested children and only ill health saw him avoid going down for the 1970 murders of the Mackay sisters. As per the post above, he had an absolutely striking resemblance to the identikit sketch from the Adelaide abductions, even down to the wide brimmed hat.

2/ Stanley Arthur HART - Hart was a notorious sex offender who also looked uncannily like the identikit sketch, including the big ears. Hart, unlike Brown, also lived nearby. Much of the information linking Hart to the case seems to rely on the memory of his incarcerated, convicted, pedophile grandson Mark Marshall, who was only 3 years of age at the time of the Adelaide girl's disappearance. Marshall presented about an 80 page submission to the inquest and to me it reads like the work of a twisted guy in jail with too much time on his side. However, it is Hart who is linked to the barrels that blood samples are being sent overseas to be tested from.

 

[Deleted member 306806]

How a hat could be crucial clue to missing girls, 4 & 11, who vanished at footie

THE small handmade clay ashtray in her spare bedroom isn’t much to look at – but for Suzie Ratcliffe it’s one of her most precious possessions. Her sister Joanne had made it at school f…

www.thesun.co.uk

• Bethan King, 16 Jun 2024
• View attachment 510773
• A police sketch of the man believed to have abducted Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon
• View attachment 510774
• The police sketch bears a striking resemblance to known paedophile Stanley Arthur Hart, who died in 1999
• ''Determined to keep the case in the public eye Joanne has set up a group called Leave a Light On Inc to share Joanne and Kirste’s story and those of other families of missing persons, so their loved ones aren’t forgotten.''

Looking into this case. I only had general knowledge, so I stared with the wikipedia article and read each associated case. Then I got to the list of suspects.

That man pictured is one of TWO remarkable similar looking suspects. This article has a photo of a hand holding two photographs. They identify man in the white hat as Arthur Stanley Brown. The second photograph is another pedophile names Stanley Arthur Hart who is very similar looking and in a darker hat. This article also shows the photo of the man in the white hat as Brown, not Hart.

Maybe someone can put that photo that shows a picture of each man in a post.

 

[mrC]

how many witness were there to the actull abduction

 

[Cliff Hardy]

how many witness were there to the actull abduction

There are numerous and the more I read and listened to about this case the more I have become aware of.

 

[dotr]

Arthur Stanley Brown (left) and Stanley Hart (right). (9News)

Drawing of Adelaide Oval abductor. (9News)
2023

Sister of Adelaide Oval abduction victim knows in 'heart of hearts' the perpetrator

www.9news.com.au

''Police are yet to rule out other suspects including Arthur Stanley Brown who was charged over the rape and murders of the Mackay sisters in Queensland in 1970.
The other suspect is Errol Radan who was interviewed four years ago but has since died.
"You know, mum always told me you keep an open mind because if you only focus on one, you let the other bugger get away," Suzie said.''

 

[Cliff Hardy]

One of the obvious hinderances in solving this case is the 3 main suspects are all dead.

Stanley Hart died in 1999. Arthur Brown in 2002 and Errol Radan in 2022.

 

[mrC]

thatis a problem as they can never face trial so it woul e hard to prove their guilt to everybody's satisfaction unless the bodies were found of course

 

[mrC]

i would like to know a bit more about this frank character who was a family friend he doesnt seem to have been mentioned much but a lot of people think his actions were rather suspicious Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon - Wikipedia

 

[mrC]

a bit more about him https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...m/news-story/c5449152bfe324dd65b4bead5fcc7fc1

 

[Cliff Hardy]

thatis a problem as they can never face trial so it woul e hard to prove their guilt to everybody's satisfaction unless the bodies were found of course

Susie Radcliffe says her priority is to find the bodies and bury Joanne next to her mum.

 

[Deleted member 306806]

i would like to know a bit more about this frank character who was a family friend he doesnt seem to have been mentioned much but a lot of people think his actions were rather suspicious Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon - Wikipedia

The only culpability I could think for Frank would be him giving information to another party about Joanne and Kristie during the match. It does not sound like he had enough time during his 30 minutes of leaving to supposedly go to the bathroom. Venues typically have a policy where viewers cannot reenter if they leave, or must show a ticket for re-entry. Sitting in his seat during the search could be suspicious, but it precludes him from being elsewhere.

 

[mrC]

i find it rather odd that he doesn't take part in the search seeing as hes supposed to be a family friend they said he had knowledge of kirsty and joanes movements but im not really sure what they ment by that

 

[Cliff Hardy]

i would like to know a bit more about this frank character who was a family friend he doesnt seem to have been mentioned much but a lot of people think his actions were rather suspicious Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon - Wikipedia

Pieced together that Frank was likely a friend/acquaintance of the Ratcliffes and pretty sure I read somewhere him being referred to as one of those 'uncles' who isn't really a blood relative.

We know the seats the group were sitting in in Row L of the Edwin Smith stand were reserved seats and they sat in those same seats every home game that Norwood played at Adelaide Oval. So Frank must have either had his own ticket and therefore likely to have been a regular attendee - in which case he would have been very familiar with Joanne, as she was a regular at games and had been attending for about 5 years. Alternatively, Frank might have been attending on a spare ticket the Radcliffe's might have held. Perhaps whoever usually used it didn't go to the football that day?

If Frank was connected to the Radcliffe's he would never have seen little Kirste before because she was attending with her grandparents and had never been to the football before.

The biggest question in my mind is, did Frank wear or have with him, a broad brimmed hat that day? All the witness accounts mentioned the man seen with the girls was wearing a broad brimmed hat and if Frank didn't have one it eliminates him straight up in my opinion.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

The only culpability I could think for Frank would be him giving information to another party about Joanne and Kristie during the match. It does not sound like he had enough time during his 30 minutes of leaving to supposedly go to the bathroom. Venues typically have a policy where viewers cannot reenter if they leave, or must show a ticket for re-entry. Sitting in his seat during the search could be suspicious, but it precludes him from being elsewhere.

I don't think Frank is the guy either but you make a good point about him perhaps conveying information to another party. Unlikely, but not out of the question.

I'm picturing Frank as an aging guy who was more comfortable remaining in his seat than running around after a couple of kids who, for all they knew would probably turn up of their own accord any minute.

 

[Deleted member 306806]

I don't think Frank is the guy but you make a good point that he may perhaps have conveyed information to another party. Unlikely, but not out of the question.

I think the same about the unlikeliness. But according the article MrC linked; Frank later sold his house to the mother of another POI in the case - Bevan Spencer von Einem. Joanne's sister asked police to formally interview Frank.