Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022

[Angleterre]

I worry about this child, but - I hope Grandma doesn't have to look after another (that may sound mean, sorry)

She may not be even considered as a potential choice of candidate to do so, not because she is not capable or caring enough and not because she has done any wrong but because it may be deemed, due to overwhelming circumstances and tragedy plus previous family history and depending upon guilt or innocence of JS/KM , the state may step in and decide that a best course of action is something different

 

[brissygirl2019]

A police source told Daily Mail Australia that officers who attended the scene were horrified by what they encountered when the contents of the barrel were revealed.

'There will be people that won't be coming back to work for a while,' the source said.


Cops who found CM's body inside a barrel are too traumatised to return to work | Daily Mail Online

And that just makes hearts break all over again doesn't it.

The knock on trauma effects from these horrible, tragic events ripple far and wide and affect so many

 

[Angleterre]

IMO this Police statement led to some confusion on behalf of listeners. .. I think perhaps certain words were a bit rushed & it sounded as if there was a discussion between KM & JS about those purchases - which imo is misleading.

I worked for a longtime with a mobile network ( years ago so it may’ve changed ) - phone calls are not recorded.
Police can get a warrant to intercept / listen in / record a phone call HOWEVER since it’s been stated that these calls were on Thursday (before C was reported as missing) I can’t see that said warrant would’ve been in place.

IMO, it’s more likely that:
records of JS phone activity showed calls to the Mother
his GPS / surveillance showed trips to Bunnings / receipts obtained showed the sand purchase
his GPS / surveillance showed the Servo fuel up

And then the rest of his journey. IMO, he was on their radar from the get go ...

As a Detective in charge of Murder investigation, I have answered this question in post #310 #311

 

[bearbear]

so i wonder how much of the holiday cm spent at the holiday park, was that the first week and then the second week up at the mountains but her mother had to work so the plan was to meet js and cm back up there on thursday or friday, how was cms car ride with him, did she even make it there that tuesday?
im always amazed at the stupidity of the men who commit crimes against children, its like the urge of the crime completely overtakes them

 

[ximenalaballena]

With respect, why do you say that it’s impossible for them to have intercepted calls? It’s not impossible because we don’t know what preceded the report of C being missing and any concerning discussions that may have taken place between LE and people other than JS and KM. Authorities could have been granted and then an outside call made from a n other relative, concerned because they hadn’t been able to speak to CM so a plan of action was formed and implemented ( I’m not being too specific so as not to compromise procedural investigation tools). Or it could have been intercepted when JS first went to the LE office to speak with Detectives and was allowed to speak to KM
Certainly in U.K., we have the technology to listen in to your right to inform someone of your detention provided certain criteria are fulfilled. Who is to say that it isn’t the case here ? I’m genuinely concerned to hear your point of view?

That is really interesting feedback, thank you.

To your second theory that it could have been intercepted when JS went to the LE office to speak with Detectives, I just wanted to note in the timeline that the conversation at the LE office occurred on the Friday, the day following the phone conversations police refer to that preceded the purchasing of sandbags etc. So, it is not possible that calls from a previous day were intercepted after the fact.

To the first theory, yes potentially, however in your experience, would it be likely that police would intercept calls specifically discussing the burying of a body of a possible child murder, in which they hear and are aware of the contents of the discussion and aware of the specific movements around Sydney, but then take a full 6 days to arrest the suspect during which time there are hundreds of crews still searching for a child missing in the bush?

 

[Beans]

I now wonder if the child protection officers and convoy were bringing the grandparents on to the property. Maybe they wanted them to check through her belongings and any clothing they’d found etc. identify what was hers, what wasn’t, and what was missing. Might explain the sudden demand for media to clear out.

 

[Scrapper18]

A police source told Daily Mail Australia that officers who attended the scene were horrified by what they encountered when the contents of the barrel were revealed.

'There will be people that won't be coming back to work for a while,' the source said.


Cops who found CM's body inside a barrel are too traumatised to return to work | Daily Mail Online

Typically, LE sees a lot. Exactly what did JS allegedly do to this baby???

 

[Marg944]

The report of a neighbour seeing a car driving without lights around 4.30am on the Friday, the report doesn't state if the vehicle was arriving or departing the area. Could it be that the vehicle was returning, and not departing?

We do not know how when CM actually arrived in the area to stay on holidays with her mother. All we know is that she was to stay for 2 weeks.

 

[they'll get you]

Typically, LE sees a lot. Exactly what did JS allegedly do to this baby???

These cops have seen it all.
I hear you.

 

[Angleterre]

IMO this Police statement led to some confusion on behalf of listeners. .. I think perhaps certain words were a bit rushed & it sounded as if there was a discussion between KM & JS about those purchases - which imo is misleading.

I worked for a longtime with a mobile network ( years ago so it may’ve changed ) - phone calls are not recorded.
Police can get a warrant to intercept / listen in / record a phone call HOWEVER since it’s been stated that these calls were on Thursday (before C was reported as missing) I can’t see that said warrant would’ve been in place.

IMO, it’s more likely that:
records of JS phone activity showed calls to the Mother
his GPS / surveillance showed trips to Bunnings / receipts obtained showed the sand purchase
his GPS / surveillance showed the Servo fuel up

And then the rest of his journey. IMO, he was on their radar from the get go ...[/

YES, I followed Erin's case closely. I grew up in the Palo Alto area. Very sad loss.

So much confusion at the end of her life.

There’s no autopsy that can determine that the cause of death was a manic event . Autopsies don’t work like that and I have been to literally hundreds of men women and children. Yet that was the given cause of death. Furthermore, there was another silicone valley tech entrepreneur who also died ( if I recall correctly) a month or so before who was the CEO of a company to do with AI, that Erin worked for before setting up on her own. Very bizarre circumstances plus I have seen people murdered who have not had a single mark inside or outside of their body yet we could prove Murder because of circumstances, yet they seem to say no injuries whatsoever so the cause of death is a manic episode ???? Unless I have read it wrong or the articles I’ve read have been wholly inaccurate press reports?
As a Detective in charge of Murder investigation, I have answered this question in post #310 #311

That is really interesting feedback, thank you.

To your second theory that it could have been intercepted when JS went to the LE office to speak with Detectives, I just wanted to note in the timeline that the conversation at the LE office occurred on the Friday, the day following the phone conversations police refer to that preceded the purchasing of sandbags etc. So, it is not possible that calls from a previous day were intercepted after the fact.

To the first theory, yes potentially, however in your experience, would it be likely that police would intercept calls specifically discussing the burying of a body of a possible child murder, in which they hear and are aware of the contents of the discussion and aware of the specific movements around Sydney, but then take a full 6 days to arrest the suspect during which time there are hundreds of crews still searching for a child missing in the bush?

you still have to have tangible evidence so from what I read the discussion was about sandbags which doesn’t mean a murdered child albeit with hindsight we now think of sandbags weighing a body down
So they still would have to have sufficient evidence to perform a legal arrest as otherwise the whole investigation could be compromised
I don’t want to say too much but think about intercepts and wire taps of phones in general when gathering evidence for major criminals and the history around JS so who is to say that they didn’t already have something in place
I accept what you say about the phone call between JS/KM on Friday but we actually do not know if they spoke to one another before we were told of his presence at the police station on Friday and in what circumstances and if the police had a chat with him at the police station before Friday and we just haven’t been told the facts
Until court trial, we are guessing
Who is to say that because CM could not be reached Tue pm/Wed am by other family members that LE weren’t contacted and asked JS to accompany them to the station once it became apparent that things were amiss and if this took place Friday morning for the first time or if he went prior to speak to them without our knowledge
We don’t actually know and atm they only tell us part of their deck of cards and keep some back
I am not saying I’m right btw, it’s just options for consideration

 

[centred]

Neighbours have previously told police they saw a car leaving the Mount Wilson property without headlights on at about 4.30am on Friday.

snipped from media sources , i cannot link due to rules perhaps

Hope this helps

The report of a neighbour seeing a car driving without lights around 4.30am on the Friday, the report doesn't state if the vehicle was arriving or departing the area. Could it be that the vehicle was returning, and not departing?

We do not know how when CM actually arrived in the area to stay on holidays with her mother. All we know is that she was to stay for 2 weeks.

 

[katydid23]

The report of a neighbour seeing a car driving without lights around 4.30am on the Friday, the report doesn't state if the vehicle was arriving or departing the area. Could it be that the vehicle was returning, and not departing?

We do not know how when CM actually arrived in the area to stay on holidays with her mother. All we know is that she was to stay for 2 weeks.

I think he may have been leaving:

It is alleged Stein tried to drag the barrel from the boat and dispose of it in the river, but due to its weight didn't get very far and dumped it in scrub near the bank.

Almost four hours later a person, believed to be Ms Mutten, dialled Triple-0 to report that Charlise was missing from the Wildenstein property.

When police arrived, Ms Mutten was present at the estate without the company of her fiancé and during an informal round of police questions she had 'a medical episode' and was taken to Blue Mountains Hospital at Katoomba.

The car without lights on was seen at around 4:30 am. Just 4 hours later, KM was there alone and called 000. So it seems to me that he was taking off that morning. I wonder if she even knew he was leaving?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

With new information coming out each day, the course of events are starting to make sense.

So CM was holidaying with KM and JS in a caravan at a Hawkesbury caravan park. CM made a little friend at the park, there are witnesses.
JS has access to Mt Wilson property and convinces KM he can take CM there, they leave 7pm Tues. Does park have cctv of residents coming and going?
JS returns to caravan park at 10am Wed. to pick up KM. This is also recorded by cctv, and no CM.
They both return to property, JS explains to KM why CM is not there.
That's as far as I can go, could this explain the reported timeline of when CM died, without the autopsy report? Jmo

 

[centred]

Neighbours have previously told police they saw a car leaving the Mount Wilson property without headlights on at about 4.30am on Friday.

snipped from media sources , i cannot link due to rules perhaps

Hope this helps

Also by DT ...nvestigators are now reportedly focusing their attention on the movements of a red ute which Mr Stein was known to drive, with police sifting through hours of CCTV footage from cameras around the area, according to The Daily Telegraph.

 

[katydid23]

With new information coming out each day, the course of events are starting to make sense.

So CM was holidaying with KM and JS in a caravan at a Hawkesbury caravan park. CM made a little friend at the park, there are witnesses.
JS has access to Mt Wilson property and convinces KM he can take CM there, they leave 7pm Tues. Does park have cctv of residents coming and going?
JS returns to caravan park at 10am Wed. to pick up KM. This is also recorded by cctv, and no CM.
They both return to property, JS explains to KM why CM is not there.
That's as far as I can go, could this explain the reported timeline of when CM died, without the autopsy report? Jmo

That sounds pretty accurate but it brings up so many new questions.

What reason could he give KM for him taking her little girl at 7 pm to go to the other property, without her coming along ? Did he tell her he was spending the night at the venue with her girl?

So the next day when he returns to pick up KM, what can he say to explain her child not being with him?

And of course we can repeat that same question for Wed night, Thursday and Friday.

 

[Trooper]

The report of a neighbour seeing a car driving without lights around 4.30am on the Friday, the report doesn't state if the vehicle was arriving or departing the area. Could it be that the vehicle was returning, and not departing?

We do not know how when CM actually arrived in the area to stay on holidays with her mother. All we know is that she was to stay for 2 weeks.

What is also known, is this was not the first meeting between CM and JS, apparently. The mother of JS had met CM , and this would most likely be in the presence of JS.. yet , something went wrong this time. This particular school holiday visit.

Some X-factor, imagined, or real, occurred. Something sparked a murderous outcome.

Some event, entirely in the mind of the murderer , happened.

 

[Random-me]

A police source told Daily Mail Australia that officers who attended the scene were horrified by what they encountered when the contents of the barrel were revealed.

'There will be people that won't be coming back to work for a while,' the source said.


Cops who found CM's body inside a barrel are too traumatised to return to work | Daily Mail Online

sadly this confirms my suspicion. The way they were saying 'remains consistent with the 9yo' and that she wasn't formally identified days in, gave me a horrible feeling

 

[JayJay01060]

Also by DT ...nvestigators are now reportedly focusing their attention on the movements of a red ute which Mr Stein was known to drive, with police sifting through hours of CCTV footage from cameras around the area, according to The Daily Telegraph.

JS should just explain exactly what happened at this point. As the father of an unborn child, has he no humanity left within him? It’s outrageous.

 

[bearbear]

sadly this confirms my suspicion. The way they were saying 'remains consistent with the 9yo' and that she wasn't formally identified days in, gave me a horrible feeling

some articles say decomposed, so i guess after a week in a barrel of sand?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think any article that mentions where CM died states it was at the estate.

And the police have searched the caravan over the weekend, and taken away evidence bags.

Presumably there is evidence that we do not yet know about that leads them to believe the murder happened at the estate.

For example, this DT article mentions it twice.

One paragraph says that mum was staying at the rundown caravan park when it is alleged by police that the fiance murdered CM "more than an hour’s drive away".

Another sentence says that mum was staying 80km away from the wedding venue where CM was murdered.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph
January 21, 2022 - 6:05AM