Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #10

[they'll get you]

I'm not sure if dress shops buy their stock a year in advance.
This year's stock may have been ordered and signed for before Karen died and there was a contractural obligation. I'm also thinking of pre-ordered and lay-by garments say, weddings & formal do's.
:thinking:

 

[sosocurious]

If that was the case why not have a sale within the first couple of months and close the store. It seems odd to pay almost another years rent plus wages & utilities if things were that bad. No point dragging it in for so long, cut your losses sooner rather than later.

That may have looked a bit to sus. Shutting up shop to soon. Borce had not long taken over as director.

Very early in the case 19 July Family of missing Melbourne mum dogged by debt
A spokeswoman for Victoria Police declined to comment on whether the family’s finances continued to factor in their investigation. “The investigation into the disappearance of Karen Ristevski remains ongoing,” she said.
“We will not be providing a running commentary on the investigation.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/7b0d23acfbce06c11b31e022a7b7161e

August 2016
He was especially perturbed by any suggestion that the couples Bella Bleu retail business had money troubles.
Mr Ristevski strongly denied that the couple were dogged by debt, telling me that “Karen hadn’t done a runner on the basis on our finances”.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/a-...i/news-story/114d6958f6ca1b4f6079839367de184a

Proud of his wealth and business achievements, he was furious that his business track record had been made public, telling family members the report was wrong. He rejected any suggestion he was in financial trouble, insisting the media coverage was affecting his business and giving the false impression his wife had run away from money problems.
He claimed The Australian had been leaked financial information by Victoria Police — when in fact it came from the public database run by the Australian Securities & Investments Commission.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/65baeaefafdf08d7725f924ff14c18cd

Maybe he needed to keep up appearances. No money troubles, we are not dogged by debt. Still trading.
All was good until the media coverage and it has affected business.
Though I am sure that the police have a very good handle on all the business affairs.
Maybe there is some cash flow that may not be attributed to any legitimate business.

AR said that the police asked him did Borce own any property in the area. I wonder if he did/does?

 

[sosocurious]

I'm not sure if dress shops buy their stock a year in advance.
This year's stock may have been ordered and signed for before Karen died and there was a contractural obligation. I'm also thinking of pre-ordered and lay-by garments say, weddings & formal do's.
:thinking:

Surely not when it is suggested that you do monthly overseas trips for 10 years.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe he needed to keep up appearances. No money troubles, we are not dogged by debt. Still trading.
All was good until the media coverage and it has affected business.
Though I am sure that the police have a very good handle on all the business affairs.
Maybe there is some cash flow that may not be attributed to any legitimate business.

AR said that the police asked him did Borce own any property in the area. I wonder if he did/does?

Yes, I think it is very likely that - with his history of rolling (failed) business ventures - Borce has another business venture in the pipeline. One that needs interested financial backers.

His ongoing public anger and denials about his poor financial position seemed to be his most prominent public feature. More than his wife going missing, more than his wife's obvious murder, more than his daughter's (or his son's) reputation and peace of mind.

 

[Goldilox]

Well if the stuff the Australian dragged up is any indication their financial management left a lot to be desired going back some ways now. From pecan nuts to jeans and fancy frocks, none of it was successful.

With a gambler in the family it probably doesn't matter if successful or not. Never going to stay afloat for long.

Was this his biggest gamble?!

 

[Amalgam]

New article here : http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...r/news-story/b8afa390cd3b94a4d993bd1c41d4b494

 

[they'll get you]

New article here : http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...r/news-story/b8afa390cd3b94a4d993bd1c41d4b494

Thanx Amalgam.

“Research has shown that when a body is transported to and deposited in a bushland setting, the furthest distance from the parked vehicle is about 30 metres through bushland if easy going, or less than 20 metres if difficult terrain,” Ms Illingsworth told news.com.au.
“This is due to the physical exertion required to carry or drag a body. (According to reports) the body was found about 50 metres from the nearest parking opportunity.
“If this distance is correct then it is significant as it would require a strong person to carry the body that far; or perhaps two people were involved in the disposal. More so if there was scrub or difficult terrain involved.
“The location of the two logs between which the body was found is also significant. If these logs are not visible from the parking location then it is highly suggestive of the offender having previous knowledge of that concealment site, ie he had been there before.
“If it is visible from the parking site then it is less suggestive of prior knowledge. Having said that, depending on how accessible and visible that parking site is from the usual route in/out would influence prior knowledge of the disposal site.
“Basically, the harder it is to find that site, the more likely the offender had previous knowledge of it.”

 

[they'll get you]

“To mitigate [the] risk of discovery at the scene, [the person] may have chosen a little used track to find that site; and/or taken the body there at first morning light or dusk when there is less risk of people being in the vicinity.
“The nights before and after she was reportedly last seen had last quarter moons so the night sky would have been fairly dark — probably too dark to find that site and the forest debris with just a torch.
“So dusk or first light was more likely the time when the body was disposed, unless the access road and parking site afforded good privacy, then daylight was an option.”
Asked about speculation about the gravesite’s location on Mt Macedon inside Macedon Regional Park, Ms Illingsworth said it was probably a matter of convenience rather than anything significant.

 

[ozazure]

New article here : http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...r/news-story/b8afa390cd3b94a4d993bd1c41d4b494

Illingsworth failed to acknowledge that Mt Macedon is much more of a destination for people versus the forest. I have been in the area for 40 years and to my knowledge no one I know ever heads off into Lerderderg, I was not aware of the forest myself nor would think of it as a place to visit. You go up Mt Macedon to look at the cross, have a devonshire tea, go on a walk, see the occasional snow.

It is interesting about the distance of her body from the parking spot and what offenders normally do. I wonder if the shovel story is true, and it proved too hard to dig a shallow grave, that he had to scout around the area to find a natural hidey hole. If you took the body 30 metres in and failed to hide it, finding a good spot another 20 metres in doesn't seem too improbable - you find it and go back and move the body another 20. Or if you went in just with the shovel 20 or 30 metres and failed to dig a grave, you would commit to going further in order to hide it well without a grave.

 

[richieswan]

Illingsworth failed to acknowledge that Mt Macedon is much more of a destination for people versus the forest. I have been in the area for 40 years and to my knowledge no one I know ever heads off into Lerderderg, I was not aware of the forest myself nor would think of it as a place to visit. You go up Mt Macedon to look at the cross, have a devonshire tea, go on a walk, see the occasional snow.

It is interesting about the distance of her body from the parking spot and what offenders normally do. I wonder if the shovel story is true, and it proved too hard to dig a shallow grave, that he had to scout around the area to find a natural hidey hole. If you took the body 30 metres in and failed to hide it, finding a good spot another 20 metres in doesn't seem too improbable - you find it and go back and move the body another 20. Or if you went in just with the shovel 20 or 30 metres and failed to dig a grave, you would commit to going further in order to hide it well without a grave.

I often seek out "inconvenient forest locations" when travelling to give my dog a short run. I let the dog go exploring while I wander around to stretch my legs. Maybe that's how the person knew of such a specific disposal location (the logs). If I was travelling homeward (towards Melbourne), it would be my instinct to give the dog a run (toilet) before hitting the traffic.

 

[emirates1957]

Illingsworth failed to acknowledge that Mt Macedon is much more of a destination for people versus the forest. I have been in the area for 40 years and to my knowledge no one I know ever heads off into Lerderderg, I was not aware of the forest myself nor would think of it as a place to visit. You go up Mt Macedon to look at the cross, have a devonshire tea, go on a walk, see the occasional snow.

It is interesting about the distance of her body from the parking spot and what offenders normally do. I wonder if the shovel story is true, and it proved too hard to dig a shallow grave, that he had to scout around the area to find a natural hidey hole. If you took the body 30 metres in and failed to hide it, finding a good spot another 20 metres in doesn't seem too improbable - you find it and go back and move the body another 20. Or if you went in just with the shovel 20 or 30 metres and failed to dig a grave, you would commit to going further in order to hide it well without a grave.

Profilers fascinate me. In the heat of the moment, grabbing a shovel would appear the most likely way of concealment. Digging a deep hole could take hours and hours (referring to my partner who is a builder). Felled logs seem a logical placement, in the event of being unable to dig a suitable depth. Wonder if there was evidence of a partial dig site? As for a stealth burial with limited moonlight would suggest big time premeditation. Wonder why Bezzina suggested a "cold case" may prevail in the early weeks? Sorry too many questions.

 

[matey]

New article here : http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...r/news-story/b8afa390cd3b94a4d993bd1c41d4b494

In this article, it states that investigators with Victoria Police have remained tight-lipped on the case which is getting colder by the day and have yet to reveal the results of the post mortem examination on Karen's body including the cause of death.

What the hell is going on with this case? :banghead:...:maddening:

 

[Cads]

Interesting article. I really didn't think it was 50 metres. Yes - the final resting place can not be seen from where you could park the car (note - it is not a car park.. just the dirt road with perhaps a slightly cleared area (tight to turn a car around in - doable but tight ) but I didn't think it was 50 . Maybe I am just a bad judgement of that sort of distance.
A few small animal made tracks going in - but no car track as such that I could see leading off the road driven.
I do have faith in the shovel bit though - good luck digging in that area. No way in hell.. its rocky and rough. Geologically known to be volcanic in that area. Hanging Rock - just north is a very unique formation.
Riding through the Macedon area - there are portions of quartz and other types of hard rock all over the place.
Its on the edge of the gold fields area after all.
Not an easy place to dig.... I feel a hole was intended and there was a shovel that was intended on being used for that reason - but in a panic - another option had to be sort as digging was not an option.
Whilst mention of weight and dragging through the bush is to be considered - under a panic (i.e. suddenly working out that a hole can't be dug) - adrenaline can work wonders.
Plenty of logs and crevices / gully's around.

I just want to know now what happened.....
I really hope it doesn't go cold.

 

[they'll get you]

Fanbloodytastic post cads thankyou!

 

[Cads]

Fanbloodytastic post cads thankyou!

No prob...
Whilst I think the driver on the car was some what familiar with the area - I don't think they knew exactly where to place her.
Why I think this is because:
* The road they took looks lovely and easy to start with but it gets somewhat tricky at the end. Wet would equal slippery around there - so I am thinking they got to a point and after placing her turned around and went back the way they came. A normal car - but I just question it if she was in the boot of the Merc.. ?
* But most importantly - which makes me feel that the driver / drivers... wasn't 100 % familiar with the area was because she was placed on the side towards the houses.
See - if you were going to bury out in the bush - wouldn't you think to go opposite the closest houses?
Karen was on the house side of the road - not 10 mtrs in - but nearly 50. Where on the other side of the dirt road - was 2,300 + Hectares of state park - bushy thick state park - no houses.
Some what risky being on the house side which makes me think that it was a hasty decision - bringing me back to an accident at home??? an out of control situation created by financial woes - not a planned murder - then a panic cover up - take her to an area familiar - knowing that its just up the road from Toolern Vale
Then a panic to find a spot.
Just my thoughts.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

No prob...
Whilst I think the driver on the car was some what familiar with the area - I don't think they knew exactly where to place her.
Why I think this is because:
* The road they took looks lovely and easy to start with but it gets somewhat tricky at the end. Wet would equal slippery around there - so I am thinking they got to a point and after placing her turned around and went back the way they came. A normal car - but I just question it if she was in the boot of the Merc.. ?
* But most importantly - which makes me feel that the driver / drivers... wasn't 100 % familiar with the area was because she was placed on the side towards the houses.
See - if you were going to bury out in the bush - wouldn't you think to go opposite the closest houses?
Karen was on the house side of the road - not 10 mtrs in - but nearly 50. Where on the other side of the dirt road - was 2,300 + Hectares of state park - bushy thick state park - no houses.
Some what risky being on the house side which makes me think that it was a hasty decision - bringing me back to an accident at home??? an out of control situation created by financial woes - not a planned murder - then a panic cover up - take her to an area familiar - knowing that its just up the road from Toolern Vale
Then a panic to find a spot.
Just my thoughts.

Well thought out post. The only part I think differently about is the accident scenario, imo, Karen was suffocated either with a pillow/plastic bag. This was the reason behind the disposal of her body.
Not a planned crime, as in the day, method, motive but more along the lines of, 'no, she can't and I will stop her by any means'.
It's quite difficult to suffocate a healthy adult, the perp could have stopped but chose not to so intention to kill is on the table. JMO Murder or voluntary manslaughter?

MURDER

In a case of murder (except for when the murder is constructive murder), the prosecution must prove that the accused had full intention to kill, an intention to inflict grievous (and serious) bodily harm, or a reckless indifference to human life. The accused must have foreseen that his or her actions, or failure to act, amounted to the death of the victim.

VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER

An intentional killing that is accompanied by mitigating factors describes voluntary manslaughter. The mitigating factors are generally lack of premeditation and provocation, which causes anger or rage; however, there are other factors that may apply. An example of this would be a person who is provoked in an argument, to the extent that they become enraged and immediately lash out at the victim, killing them in the heat of the moment.

http://victoria.criminallegal.com.au/crimes/manslaughter-murder-homicide-laws/#

 

[Jennifer17]

It would have to be a very strong man to suffocate a fit, healthy woman with a pillow unless he had incapacitated her beforehand

 

[Cads]

It would have to be a very strong man to suffocate a fit, healthy woman with a pillow unless he had incapacitated her beforehand

Agree - hard to do - but doable if he had the strength to over power her.
I feel she may have been pushed down stairs or something like that...
A deliberate push but in the heat of the moment action - leading to a considered but not expected result of her death - then causing the disposal concerns
Whilst ridding her was probably considered several times - her death was not planned as such

Maybe??

 

[JC40]

Something happened in that house that he is with holding.

I keep going back to his initial statement. He said she went upstairs, came down and then went out to clear her head.

He tells us she went upstairs, he doesn't say why, and then came back down. In the greater scheme of things, this is extraneous information. Yet, he finds it important to put it in his statement, why?
What did she go upstairs (if she did) for?. This is where there is missing information.
Did something happen on the stairs? While upstairs or after she came down.

Again, telling us she went up and downstairs is needless, but important to him.

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

:thinking: When the police take a statement from someone part of the questioning can go like this:

Q Then what did she do?
A She went upstairs.

Q What did she go upstairs for, did she say?
A No, she just went upstairs. I'm not sure what she did up there.

Q Then what happened?
A She came downstairs and said she was going out to clear her head.

I honestly don't think BR just offered the upstairs/downstairs information. He answered the questions put forth to him by police when making the statement is all. MOO