Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #18 *Arrest*

[they'll get you]

built in 1996.
land size of 656m2
floor size of 347m2.

https://www.onthehouse.com.au/prope...3-oakley-dr-avondale-heights-vic-3034-9448137

 

[tmar]

No title searches done by me.
rented @ $750PER WEEK = $10,500 per month
5beds
3baths
2parking

Property Report for 23 Oakley Drive, Avondale Heights VIC 3034

OOPS.
$750/week does not equate to $10,500/month.

 

[they'll get you]

Rental Bond:$3,368

23 Oakley Dr, Avondale Heights

OK I’ll leave you alone now with my useless information

 

[they'll get you]

OOPS.
$750/week does not equate to $10,500/month.

$3,000 oops thanx tmar!
Stupid Dosn’t know how to use a calculator.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

All good, I’ll proceed with my plan. My personal portfolio would make Borce’s eyes water....no nuts to China involved. Or murders.
Let’s see what I turn up.

 

[they'll get you]

All good, I’ll proceed with my plan. My personal portfolio would make Borce’s eyes water....no nuts to China involved. Or murders.
Let’s see what I turn up.

I like it when you talk dirty.

 

[they'll get you]

I've been trying to figure out why the bathroom.

Premeditated as it was easier to clean up the evidence ?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ps-after-he-killed-karen-20190419-p51fov.html


Investigators believe Karen was slain in the bathroom of the family's Avondale Heights home in Melbourne's north-west. The bathroom was hospital-grade clean and there was no forensic evidence to be gathered anywhere in the house[/URL].

Bathroom or ensuite?

 

[they'll get you]

TGY, I have always thought debt on the house was a partial murder motive.
I’m looking at doing some searches on ownership, mortgage, possible caveats, sales history etc. I don’t mind paying but just double checking that no one else done the same.

It’d bet Karen had a life insurance policy or insurance attached to her superannuation.
Memories of Allison Baden-Clay.

 

[Via Marple]

View attachment 181614 View attachment 181615
Bathroom or ensuite?

I bet ensuite. That bath is a great place to corner the occupant.

 

[Edgarb]

Yes Edgarb a truly tragic and short life for the young boy. I guarantee that no one will get up in court to give his parents a glowing reference as if anyone did they would be forever ruing the day they did.
Following KR's case from day 1 certainly has helped to assess other situations sadly I knew once that young boys mother stopped talking to police there was only going to be one result.
I have also picked up from relating certain signs I learnt to pick up on that two of my relations we're and are in bad relationships of both verbal and physical abuse. Even with all the help available from outside agencies and organisations both choose to remain silent as they didn't want to have friends or family to be concerned about them with worry. One situation had so many traits similar to KR's leading up to her death it was scary. I don't believe it would have resulted in death but the mental abuse was certainly there.

Both asked me to not tell anyone close to them but I could tell both were happy that they had spoken to someone about it. One is now removed from the relationship and the other is feeling stronger and is making changes.

Nothing positive comes from a murder but if due to it others make changes to their lives from a wake up call resulting from it then that is one good fallout.

That little boy was in a situation where he was vunerable and couldn't remove himself from the environment but there is no excuse for a woman not to act when they know they don't deserve or need to be in a bad and dangerous situation. I guess the hard part is knowing at what point is it where you realise now is the time to act.

That is great news Steve, thank you for sharing this.

I truly believe Karen was saying NO to something or STANDING UP for something and this was a way of shutting her down. Unfortunately the victim blaming began in the press conference when BR said:

"We had a ahh b ahh bit of ahh an argument ahh in regards to, um, the store figures, and um, how she was going to you know improve them, and, she had had a bad day the day before at the store..."

Also perpetuated by SR when she told 3aw days after Karen's disappearance:

"My dad was saying maybe we could do a bigger sale or something improve and she just yeah she just went ballistic about it."

Note, both used "she", distancing language rather than saying Karen, my wife, my Mum. IMHO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

built in 1996.
land size of 656m2
floor size of 347m2.

https://www.onthehouse.com.au/prope...3-oakley-dr-avondale-heights-vic-3034-9448137

bbm
Borce and Karen Ristevski had money problems before her death
But the family was plunged into debt when the clothing manufacture and wholesaler, Blue Jean Co, which Mr Ristevski owned with his brother Vasko, collapsed and left him with $600,000 in unsecured debt.
-.-
Blue Laser Jean Co went under in 2000 and The Australian reports Mr Ristevski told a creditors’ meeting that same year that the company “was relying heavily on this working relationship to fill the void the clothing industry has suffered in the last 18 months”.
“We regret the outcome as this is a company we have built up since 1987 (but) after numerous attempts at restructuring we were unable to come up with an alternative,” he told the meeting, according to Australian Securities and Investments Commission documents.
Before the company closed at the end of 2000, the Ristevski home was transferred into Mrs Ristevski’s name.

 

[Edgarb]

I've been trying to figure out why the bathroom.

Premeditated as it was easier to clean up the evidence ?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ps-after-he-killed-karen-20190419-p51fov.html


Investigators believe Karen was slain in the bathroom of the family's Avondale Heights home in Melbourne's north-west. The bathroom was hospital-grade clean and there was no forensic evidence to be gathered anywhere in the house[/URL].

BR gave us a good insight when he said:
"...and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage..."

There is a time lapse and missing information between Karen going upstairs and coming downstairs (statement analysis principles), using words such as "just" (attempt to minimise) & multiple use of "and"s & "um"s can indicate deception and storytelling. Based on this, I believe it is the ensuite. IMHO.

 

[they'll get you]

bbm
Borce and Karen Ristevski had money problems before her death
But the family was plunged into debt when the clothing manufacture and wholesaler, Blue Jean Co, which Mr Ristevski owned with his brother Vasko, collapsed and left him with $600,000 in unsecured debt.
-.-
Blue Laser Jean Co went under in 2000 and The Australian reports Mr Ristevski told a creditors’ meeting that same year that the company “was relying heavily on this working relationship to fill the void the clothing industry has suffered in the last 18 months”.
“We regret the outcome as this is a company we have built up since 1987 (but) after numerous attempts at restructuring we were unable to come up with an alternative,” he told the meeting, according to Australian Securities and Investments Commission documents.
Before the company closed at the end of 2000, the Ristevski home was transferred into Mrs Ristevski’s name.

Slick.
That’s his history.

 

[SouthAussie]

"My dad was saying maybe we could do a bigger sale or something improve and she just yeah she just went ballistic about it."

I really detest this line. Always have.
Who speaks about their missing mother like that?
Already in defence of her father.

 

[Via Marple]

That is great news Steve, thank you for sharing this.

I truly believe Karen was saying NO to something or STANDING UP for something and this was a way of shutting her down. Unfortunately the victim blaming began in the press conference when BR said:

"We had a ahh b ahh bit of ahh an argument ahh in regards to, um, the store figures, and um, how she was going to you know improve them, and, she had had a bad day the day before at the store..."

Also perpetuated by SR when she told 3aw days after Karen's disappearance:

"My dad was saying maybe we could do a bigger sale or something improve and she just yeah she just went ballistic about it."

Note, both used "she", distancing language rather than saying Karen, my wife, my Mum. IMHO

BR gave us a good insight when he said:
"...and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage..."

There is a time lapse and missing information between Karen going upstairs and coming downstairs (statement analysis principles), using words such as "just" (attempt to minimise) & multiple use of "and"s & "um"s can indicate deception and storytelling. Based on this, I believe it is the ensuite. IMHO.

Great analysis, love to learn more on this.

So in the first quote above, Sarah wasn't just victim blaming, she also left out a few important details?

"My dad was saying maybe we could do a bigger sale or something improve and she just yeah she just went ballistic about it."
​

As for Borce, he wasn't lying either, he described every movement of Karen's, he just left out the most relevant part!

 

[Via Marple]

bbm
Borce and Karen Ristevski had money problems before her death
But the family was plunged into debt when the clothing manufacture and wholesaler, Blue Jean Co, which Mr Ristevski owned with his brother Vasko, collapsed and left him with $600,000 in unsecured debt.
-.-
Blue Laser Jean Co went under in 2000 and The Australian reports Mr Ristevski told a creditors’ meeting that same year that the company “was relying heavily on this working relationship to fill the void the clothing industry has suffered in the last 18 months”.
“We regret the outcome as this is a company we have built up since 1987 (but) after numerous attempts at restructuring we were unable to come up with an alternative,” he told the meeting, according to Australian Securities and Investments Commission documents.
Before the company closed at the end of 2000, the Ristevski home was transferred into Mrs Ristevski’s name.

Yeah. When his businesses failed, he transferred assets to Karen to avoid them going to his creditors (which might not make any sense to the forensic accountant, if it didn't really solve his problems)

When Karen's business looked like going the same way, he wanted to transfer assets to himself and Sarah. Except that Karen had her own ideas, about her business and his control, and would not agree. MOO

If that is not a motive.....

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah. When his businesses failed, he transferred assets to Karen to avoid them going to his creditors (which might not make any sense to the forensic accountant, if it didn't really solve his problems)

When Karen's business looked like going the same way, he wanted to transfer assets to himself and Sarah. Except that Karen had her own ideas, about her business and his control, and would not agree. MOO

If that is not a motive.....

I really dont get it. Either the prosecutor did a lousy job of presenting the financial juggling and control (motive) to the judge, so the judge just said it couldnt be murder based on Borce's after-murder movements. Did a lousy job of presenting Karen's indications of leaving Borce ... the convo that Ant overheared, the flats that Karen had lined up to view, the way she didn't want to go home to her husband, the way she preferred him to sleep on the couch.

Or the judge didnt use his brain and see that this financial mud provided some motive, the indications that Karen was leaving Borce provided some motive ... and then give a jury the opportunity to make up their own minds.

 

[JLZ]

I really dont get it. Either the prosecutor did a lousy job of presenting the financial juggling and control (motive) to the judge, so the judge just said it couldnt be murder based on Borce's after-murder movements. Did a lousy job of presenting Karen's indications of leaving Borce ... the convo that Ant overheared, the flats that Karen had lined up to view, the way she didn't want to go home to her husband, the way she preferred him to sleep on the couch.

Or the judge didnt use his brain and see that this financial mud provided some motive, the indications that Karen was leaving Borce provided some motive ... and then give a jury the opportunity to make up their own minds.

The financial juggling and indications of marital breakdown had nothing to do with the legal question of whether the post-offence conduct could be used to show intention. The prosecution could have elected to proceed to murder trial and present all the evidence including that of Borce's movements that morning. The judge would have instructed the jury that that particular evidence could not be used to show intention. The jury would have been required to make up their minds about intention on the basis of other presented evidence, which might have included financial and relationship matters.

The judge's ruling was probably right in law (I think this after looking at the cases he cited) and to decide otherwise would have invited appeal.

 

[SouthAussie]

The financial juggling and indications of marital breakdown had nothing to do with the legal question of whether the post-offence conduct could be used to show intention. The prosecution could have elected to proceed to murder trial and present all the evidence including that of Borce's movements that morning. The judge would have instructed the jury that that particular evidence could not be used to show intention. The jury would have been required to make up their minds about intention on the basis of other presented evidence, which might have included financial and relationship matters.

The judge's ruling was probably right in law (I think this after looking at the cases he cited) and to decide otherwise would have invited appeal.

Yes, I do get the 'law' of the decision.

My point was, if we can see intention and the prosecutor could see intention (hence, the murder charge) why on earth did it boil down to Borce's after-murder activities?

That is why I think the prosecutor did a lousy job of presenting the intention. Didn't get it all neatly tied up in a bow.
Or the judge glossed over the intention because it wasn't absolutely crystal clear to him.

I never had a great deal of confidence in Justice Beale, right from the start, as I mentioned way back in the threads. IMO he is not mentally geared to support women.

For others, here are the cases Justice Beale looked at when making his sentence determination. All unhappy outcomes for justice ... and the unhappy outcomes continue.

Other killings Justice Beale looked at to calculate Ristevski sentence - News Line Australia

 

[SouthAussie]

Just to add .... I think more cases like this, with a risk of appeal, should be tried then judged by a jury of peers.
Let them go to appeal. Let three Supreme Court judges review and make determinations.

Somehow, we have to get these terrible precedents from being continually utilised by making some new precedents.