Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #2

[sleepinoz]

ohhh sleep I'm sure he is plenty clever ..... thank him from me.

He's an ex - you may well run into him before me to thank him.

 

[Puggle]

He's an ex - you may well run into him before me to thank him.

lol.....

 

[Puggle]

So my questioning which equipment they were using to search for Karen does have a reason...

I have a long and lengthy post I want to put up ..... so I apologise ahead of time...and say if it gets too boring ...please just scroll on by....

Its nothing overly exciting or a revelation.... but I thought it interesting and may be of interest to some...have to break it up a bit...

again sorry ahead of time.

 

[Puggle]

Ok so I'm going to eat my own words ....

I previously said I thought there was no way she could be in the river otherwise she would have been found by now.

I take that back after doing a little research today.......and decided to post after seeing they'llget you post a few pages back about the body hidden under water.

Be it a case of accidental drowning or a deliberate act to dispose of a body (weighted down as someone else suggested). If the police hadn't been using side sonar they very well could miss a body submerged in the water,same for any divers not searching in the exact right area. I remember from Sierra Lamar case.... that they had to bring in specialist side scan sonar equipment...

.......a body may not surface for months.....

After wading through heaps of academic... conflicting data....I decided to try to find evidence provided by msm of victims that had been retrieved following: drowning, suicide and murder.

Sorry if my descriptions upset anyone .... if you have lost someone due to drowning I suggest you stop reading now, as it could be upsetting.... ( Will be in my next post) ...so if you see my purple pic in the left hand please scroll......

 

[Puggle]

What I found out today (and it may be wrong...so pickaway...I'm not precious) .......much....

When a person drowns... they will basically pin drop straight in the water to the bottom.

There they will remain until enough gases through decomposition has taken place, causing the body to rise to the surface.

The more body weight a person carries the quicker they will rise, as body fat speeds up the decomposition process. The person of a slim build will take longer to decompose and resurface.

How much sunlight the water receives also plays a role inthe decomposition process.

This would mean the bank of a river on the North would receive far less sunlight than that of the south bank thus keeping it far cooler

The temperature of the water itself is by far the greatest factor in a body resurfacing. The water would need to be at least above 3.3 degrees for that to happen, otherwise it will not resurface.

This is where the Links I will provide really hit home the reality of how cold weather (water conditions) can affect a body resurfacing..

Obviously if a body that has been weighted, caught up insomething, became stuck under a ledge by being carried by an undercurrent during the resurfacing process .... they will again take longer to resurface.

The River has been classified as a slow flowing river. In many cases a body will resurface fairly close to the spot that a victim drowned in and not further downstream unless it is a fast flowing body of water.

 

[Puggle]

Did Karen go for a walk and accidently fall in...

Does she have a medical condition such as a heart condition or asthma or some other condition that may have prevented her from helping herself...could she even swim?

Karen is of a very slim build. She has an unknown medical condition. She has been reported to have gone for a walk along the trail as her last movements...

The Maribyrnong river in that area is in the range of 2 - 5 meters of depth in, the walking trail is on the northern side of the river (the coldest side) ......... exactly how cold the Maribyrnong River is at a depth of say even 3 meters...Well I can't seem to find that info anywhere???

Has the river been searched adequately given the conditions?

 

[Puggle]

http://environmentvictoria.org.au/lifeblood/maribyrnong

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-04-12/news/9304120109_1_body-lake-michigan-area-rivers

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/05/24/new-yorks-grim-sign-of-spring-floating-corpses/

I know two example links are from America ... but I just couldn't find much that was Australian........and anyone who knows me here..... I'm hopeless with links anyway.

As I said... I am happy for people to pick apart what I have posted...its all learning in my books

Sorry for long posts

Puggle xx

 

[ScottKam]

Following up on your concern about the river, Puggle, i seem to recall Andrew Rule mentioning that the police were just doing a cursory sweep of the river to make it look like they are doing a search, though it was more for optics, as they say, than for practical reasons to actually search for Karen.
That made me assume that Karen was not in the river, as Rule would be in the loop and would have gotten private word as to the state of play, or, at the very least, after years of covering these things, he just added up two and two and didn't find the water search convincing. That was stated in Andrew Rule's 'hard questions must now be asked' article. It was that very article that made me assume that Borce was about to be arrested. So i think the police are not expecting to find a body in the river. If Borce did murder Karen, i wonder where he put her. Obviously not in the river, according to police, as surmised by Rule.


ETA:
Here is the precise quote from Rule:
In this case, they don’t seem to be concentrating on the Maribyrnong River, which winds through steep grassland behind the Ristevski family home. A few sweeps by the water police, as if for appearance’s sake, seem to be all.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...k=992dfd66d811ce85f301bad7358c6552-1470146666

 

[sleepinoz]

Following up on your concern about the river, Puggle, i seem to recall Andrew Rule mentioning that the police were just doing a cursory sweep of the river to make it look like they are doing a search, though it was more for optics, as they say, than for practical reasons to actually search for Karen.
That made me assume that Karen was not in the river, as Rule would be in the loop and would have gotten private word as to the state of play, or, at the very least, after years of covering these things, he just added up two and two and didn't find the water search convincing. That was stated in Andrew Rule's 'hard questions must now be asked' article. It was that very article that made me assume that Borce was about to be arrested. So i think the police are not expecting to find a body in the river. If Borce did murder Karen, i wonder where he put her. Obviously not in the river, according to police, as surmised by Rule.


ETA:
Here is the precise quote from Rule:
In this case, they don’t seem to be concentrating on the Maribyrnong River, which winds through steep grassland behind the Ristevski family home. A few sweeps by the water police, as if for appearance’s sake, seem to be all.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...k=992dfd66d811ce85f301bad7358c6552-1470146666

That article is dated 14th July, which prior to the boat and divers searching last week on the 29th & 30th

 

[Puggle]

Following up on your concern about the river, Puggle, i seem to recall Andrew Rule mentioning that the police were just doing a cursory sweep of the river to make it look like they are doing a search, though it was more for optics, as they say, than for practical reasons to actually search for Karen.
That made me assume that Karen was not in the river, as Rule would be in the loop and would have gotten private word as to the state of play, or, at the very least, after years of covering these things, he just added up two and two and didn't find the water search convincing. That was stated in Andrew Rule's 'hard questions must now be asked' article. It was that very article that made me assume that Borce was about to be arrested. So i think the police are not expecting to find a body in the river. If Borce did murder Karen, i wonder where he put her. Obviously not in the river, according to police, as surmised by Rule.


ETA:
Here is the precise quote from Rule:
In this case, they don’t seem to be concentrating on the Maribyrnong River, which winds through steep grassland behind the Ristevski family home. A few sweeps by the water police, as if for appearance’s sake, seem to be all.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...k=992dfd66d811ce85f301bad7358c6552-1470146666

Lol...so I haven't bored everyone.....

Just a correction...I have no concern of the river specifically.....

I just thought the info I had was interesting...as I am applying it to another case I am following also......just throwing around ideas and I like to research a train of thought...so no fixed opinions....in regard to Karen specifically........but it could be relevant....???........

she may have gone for a walk in a puff and accidentally fell in....she could have met a deranged psycho on the trail who robbed her and pushed her in....a angry relative with an axe to grind who murdered her and threw her body in...or a partner who under the cover of darkness possibly transported her remains to the river.

Just wanted to try and provide info on what...and how long a body could remain submerged in Cold waters.

Again I really have no fixed ideas of what has happened to Karen....... I have gut feelings...but they are no good without facts.

I like Andrew Rule.....have enjoyed his articles over the years...he seems very in tune with what a large variety of peoples thoughts, opinions may/would be...so I can completely see how your thoughts head that way....

As far as *if* Borce murdered her where did he put her?.....or even if the stepson did....I have thoughts on that...and the places are the same for both ....

based rather simplistically on applying the theory that as Humans we tend to live and interact with our surroundings based within a zone....our home, our work, our friends, our social life.

I'm missing a chunck of info on all... but have some places based on what we do know so far.

 

[Puggle]

That article is dated 14th July, which prior to the boat and divers searching last week on the 29th & 30th

Yes it is sleep...... I think Andrew rule aired his opinion based on what had been done on the search so far... prior to the 29th.

Meaning..... the police only did a cursory search of the river.....implying the police maybe suspected that she wasn't in the river.....

Or....it could simply be a case that police weren't throwing all resources into a thorough search of the river because........sadly...lots of people decide voluntarily to go missing every year.

 

[Puggle]

That article is dated 14th July, which prior to the boat and divers searching last week on the 29th & 30th

So that answers my question, was the river searched properly (first initial search) given the conditions (coldness of the water) .... was the proper equipment brought in to search.

It wasn't.

 

[sleepinoz]

So that answers my question, was the river searched properly (first initial search) given the conditions (coldness of the water) .... was the proper equipment brought in to search.

It wasn't.

No it wasn't - I think you'll find the River itself hadn't been searched at all until last Friday. All other references of searching only say they are searching 'along the banks'.

Strange that I can't find anything about Karen on the VicPol newspage - I could only get this cache version.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...44+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-b

Local police, Special Solo Unit (motorcycles) Missing Person Squad detectives and SES will be searching along the banks of the Maribyrnong River from Canning Reserve to Buckley Street in Avondale Heights.

 

[SouthAussie]

No it wasn't - I think you'll find the River itself hadn't been searched at all until last Friday. All other references of searching only say they are searching 'along the banks'.

Strange that I can't find anything about Karen on the VicPol newspage - I could only get this cache version.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...44+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-b

Local police, Special Solo Unit (motorcycles) Missing Person Squad detectives and SES will be searching along the banks of the Maribyrnong River from Canning Reserve to Buckley Street in Avondale Heights.

I thought it was odd too. I looked the other day for anything about Karen on their website ... nothing. I did find something about the recent water search on their FB page, at the time. Just don't have time right now to scroll down that far on their FB page to see if it is still there. lol

But it sort of flies in the face of keeping Karen's profile out there. Or alerting locals to potential danger in the area.


ETA I wonder if they put Missing fliers up in the area, as they said they were going to do. I haven't seen any pics of them in the media yet.

 

[DanInOz]

Yes it is sleep...... I think Andrew rule aired his opinion based on what had been done on the search so far... prior to the 29th.

Meaning..... the police only did a cursory search of the river.....implying the police maybe suspected that she wasn't in the river.....

Or....it could simply be a case that police weren't throwing all resources into a thorough search of the river because........sadly...lots of people decide voluntarily to go missing every year.

Hey all Ive been MIA & really need to catch up properly

Apologies if it has already been said but maybe they did that cursory search just to throw BR off? Maybe they were trying to get some type or reaction from him. Eg. smug - (I know shes not in there so wasting your time) Fear - (crap shes in there & Im going down)

 

[Puggle]

No it wasn't - I think you'll find the River itself hadn't been searched at all until last Friday. All other references of searching only say they are searching 'along the banks'.

Strange that I can't find anything about Karen on the VicPol newspage - I could only get this cache version.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...44+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-b

Local police, Special Solo Unit (motorcycles) Missing Person Squad detectives and SES will be searching along the banks of the Maribyrnong River from Canning Reserve to Buckley Street in Avondale Heights.

Yeah I don't think a proper search by water police was done ..... they did have a boat out on the 13th..14th in the area closer to her home going by the picture ...in the article (linked) on the 14th.

Im not implying anything by their failure to do so ..... I imagine consideration of $$ ... resources...people...

But I suppose people can read alot more sinister things into that if they choose too.

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/...ristevski-as-police-fear-worst/?cs=12#slide=1

ETA: Ahhhh yep...the article linked below confirms that the 29th/30th search of the river was the first time divers had been called in on the search.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/d...ng-woman-karen-ristevski-20160730-gqh7i1.html

 

[Puggle]

Hey all Ive been MIA & really need to catch up properly

Apologies if it has already been said but maybe they did that cursory search just to throw BR off? Maybe they were trying to get some type or reaction from him. Eg. smug - (I know shes not in there so wasting your time) Fear - (crap shes in there & Im going down)

Maybe..... I personally feel the media has made alot more of this case than the police.

Im still waiting for that one msm article that comes out and says, homicide detectives have taken over her missing persons case.

 

[wewillgetyou]

Maybe..... I personally feel the media has made alot more of this case than the police.

Im still waiting for that one msm article that comes out and says, homicide detectives have taken over her missing persons case.

That to me makes me lean more towards a suicide. How long after Alison Baden Clay went missing did it take the police to do a forensic examination of the house ( remember when the granny pash happened as GBC arrived at mummy and daddy's )

I think we here and the media are constantly comparing this to the Baden Clay case when in fact it could be nothing like that case at all.

 

[Unit45]

Unsure if a forensic examination of the house has taken place. The two cars were looked at but i don't see police reports of the house. Maybe an initial search was done.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Maybe..... I personally feel the media has made alot more of this case than the police.

Im still waiting for that one msm article that comes out and says, homicide detectives have taken over her missing persons case.

I don't think police are going to tip their hand until they have an arrest because they don't need any help, they know where their focus is and are building a case ...