Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #5

[Makara]

My sympathies to you ...... Having worked with people as patients with NPD, they are extremely exhausting snd mentally challenging.....frustrating....

People With NPD whilst sharing similar traits that assist with this diagnosis, they do not all present excactly the same.

Anyone using any substance that alters one perceptions ie; drugs, alcohol or other mind altering medications will obviously loose "control".

To say no person with NPD would drink, do drugs etc simply based on the perception that "they can" control themselves would be incorrect.

Luckily others here are discussing and also throwing around different ideas... I think Im pretty much alone in exploring the aspect or possibility that he maybe involved ....

Yes he can be tiring...

so if ya see purple .... scrolling by maybe an easy solution.

BBM: Meaning?

 

[Makara]

My sympathies to you ...... Having worked with people as patients with NPD, they are extremely exhausting snd mentally challenging.....frustrating....

People With NPD whilst sharing similar traits that assist with this diagnosis, they do not all present excactly the same.

Anyone using any substance that alters one perceptions ie; drugs, alcohol or other mind altering medications will obviously loose "control".

To say no person with NPD would drink, do drugs etc simply based on the perception that "they can" control themselves would be incorrect.

Luckily others here are discussing and also throwing around different ideas... I think Im pretty much alone in exploring the aspect or possibility that he maybe involved ....

Yes he can be tiring...

so if ya see purple .... scrolling by maybe an easy solution.

I'm still waiting for your reply Puggle. What do you mean by "so if ya see purple,,,,scrolling by maybe an easy solution"? Are you saying if I see your purple avatar, to scroll by and not reply to you? If that is what you mean you're basically telling me to shut up and you don't want to hear my opinion. Is that right? If that is the case, it's not going to happen. I'm not getting into a war of words with you again, it's just not worth it. I'll state my opinion and if you see the red glove, perhaps you should just scroll on by.

 

[ScottKam]

I don't know if The Rickard is a narcissist or not, though, generally speaking, he is full of himself- not sure what technical categories he satisfies.

Just generally, i think a bit too much has been made of The Rickard's addledness. I don't think anyone mentioned this on the forum, but in that ACA video of him holding a smoke with a pair of pliers, i got the feeling that was maybe at trade school. To go to trade school you can't be completely off your head all the time. Of it it was not trade school, then it seemed as if it was at some work place. I get the feeling that AR is functional and competent- and he has said he was working since 14, doing paper-rounds- so i think he sounds to have earned his way through life, at least to some extent. Sure, he sounds to have been a fool in some respects, but i think we're making him out into a downright ill-functioning junkie, which i don't think he is. It was said somewhere that he began using ice only recently, and he is 32, i think. So for 10-15 years he wasn't completely off his head, even if he was smoking the odd joint here and there, which he might have been. The recent ice use is obviously a new dynamic. AR strikes me as a larrikin who has made some bad choices, and smoking a ciggie with a pair of pliers is typical larrikinism.

Just as an aside, i totally believe a narcissist would want control and would not therefore like to be off their head and lose control. But the desire for control does not necessarily, i don't believe, prevent them from being dinkers/users. It DEPENDS. There is a lot of interpretation involved in diagnosis. So i think, Makara and Puggle, you two might not really be disagreeing, just emphasising points differently. It just depends.

 

[Bohemian]

Good heavens! Is that for real![emoji15]


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Sure is:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/crime-scene-cleaners-aim-to-help-those-left-behind/7168100

Pays surprisingly well too.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Sure is:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/crime-scene-cleaners-aim-to-help-those-left-behind/7168100

Pays surprisingly well too.

Thanks Bohemian. One would hope they're not run off their feet .... I mean, we wouldn't want to get to the point where we're seeing Jim's Crime Scene Cleaning vans scooting around town[emoji848]


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[Bohemian]

Thanks Bohemian. One would hope they're not run off their feet .... I mean, we wouldn't want to get to the point where we're seeing Jim's Crime Scene Cleaning vans scooting around town[emoji848]


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:silly:

 

[Westside_Sleuth]

I'm still waiting for your reply Puggle. What do you mean by "so if ya see purple,,,,scrolling by maybe an easy solution"? Are you saying if I see your purple avatar, to scroll by and not reply to you? If that is what you mean you're basically telling me to shut up and you don't want to hear my opinion. Is that right? If that is the case, it's not going to happen. I'm not getting into a war of words with you again, it's just not worth it. I'll state my opinion and if you see the red glove, perhaps you should just scroll on by.

"If ya see purple" -Puggle's profile pic is purple. I think they were saying that if their opinion bothers you then just scroll past. I didn't read it as telling you to shut up.


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[UndiscoveredTruth]

IMO one of the strange things in this case (apart from the obvious) is that Karen allegedly took her Coach handbag and purse when she left home to go for a walk. I don't believe for a minute that Karen actually went for a walk but why was that information about her handbag and purse thrown into the mix? Karen and Borce were involved in the rag trade and would know 1,001 brand names so the dropping of the Coach brand isn't really a big deal. Who gave that information to police? Was it BR or SR? Either way we've been given a description of the Coach handbag, purse and what Karen was allegedly wearing on the day she disappeared, yet no shoes were mentioned. That's odd IMO. I feel that the handbag and purse were actually in Karen's car and were either disposed of with her, or then again, they may even turn up in a cupboard or wardrobe.

:thinking: I look at this way. As we know the Police would have asked BR to describe Karen, what she was wearing, and anything she may have had on her when he last saw her. He told them she had her handbag--the Police would have asked him to describe the handbag, so he did, along with the brand. Knowing the brand of Handbag if anything is a good thing in my opinion. If someone had a Backpack on them and went missing, the Police would ask what brand, colour etc. If it was a NIKE backpack, that helps tremendously because people will look out for a person who not only looks like the missing person, but who also has a NIKE backpack like the one described. Also knowing the brand of KR's handbag and purse would make the public aware to keep an eye out for anyone trying to sell that brand of bag/purse. All MOO

 

[Melbourne Lass]

BR says in that clip, we had an argument and THEN on the Wednesday morning she came downstairs ......
I think the argument happened the night before if you listen to his wording .

i didn't get that while watching that clip. He didn't say "then" on the Wednesday morning. "We had an argument about the store takings the day before, and on the Wednesday morning..." I think it's just the way he said it which can be misunderstood.

 

[ozazure]

That cigarette video - that was in a home. And it just occured to me it must have been Chris Ristevski's video, he probably supplied it to ACA. It wasn't on any of AR's fb pages. And AR is obviously very drug affected in it, seems reasonable to assume CR used to indulge with AR.

Not that this adds anything to Karen's disappearance, just that the two sides of the family seem quite disparate.

 

[Dalziel]

I'm not a psychologist but for years I dealt with a person with a full blown NPD and I saw straight through his behaviour. One of the most noted traits displayed by a narcissist is they must be in full control at all times. IMO AR does not display as having an NPD. A drug user such as AR loses control whenever he hits up (or whatever it is he does). A Narcissist would never allow himself to be in that situation. They perceive themselves to be above everyone else and must stay in control at all times. In my opinion AR is more of a sociopath with his marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. A sociopath is characterized by a disregard for the feelings of others, a lack of remorse or shame, manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve his goals.

---

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

BBM. IMO if AR did murder Karen he would have been found guilty by now.

AR has inserted himself into this case for the sole purpose of attention. Our conversations of late have been more about him than Karen and what has happened to her. I'm tired of discussing him or what he posts on social media. He obviously needs help and he is the only one who can source that help. IMO he had nothing to do with Karen's disappearance, he's just basking in the limelight of Karen's disappearance.

This is spot on in my opinion. I have similar experience with clients with addiction and I can't see how this man would have been able to have avoided any major slip ups by this stage in the investigation. Then again, I am not privy to the ant nest so perhaps I've missed some crucial information that people are alluding to.
MOO

 

[Itsapuzzle]

i didn't get that while watching that clip. He didn't say "then" on the Wednesday morning. "We had an argument about the store takings the day before, and on the Wednesday morning..." I think it's just the way he said it which can be misunderstood.

Off topic if I may ...... It would be hard work to dig, err, a shallow grave wouldn't it? BR is 52 and doesn't look like he's pumping steroids or working out (I could be wrong) but it would take a while to do in the time-frame, so I'm thinking he either had help or dropped KR off/into something, like mineshaft, etc - wonder if there are any old ones in the area, the likes of which favoured by Denis Tannner ..... allegedly[emoji51]. End of spontaneous thought.


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[Itsapuzzle]

That cigarette video - that was in a home. And it just occured to me it must have been Chris Ristevski's video, he probably supplied it to ACA. It wasn't on any of AR's fb pages. And AR is obviously very drug affected in it, seems reasonable to assume CR used to indulge with AR.

Not that this adds anything to Karen's disappearance, just that the two sides of the family seem quite disparate.

Good point Ozazure, that would probably be right, I hadn't thought of that.


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[Dalziel]

My sympathies to you ...... Having worked with people as patients with NPD, they are extremely exhausting snd mentally challenging.....frustrating....

People With NPD whilst sharing similar traits that assist with this diagnosis, they do not all present excactly the same.

Anyone using any substance that alters one perceptions ie; drugs, alcohol or other mind altering medications will obviously loose "control".

To say no person with NPD would drink, do drugs etc simply based on the perception that "they can" control themselves would be incorrect.

Luckily others here are discussing and also throwing around different ideas... I think Im pretty much alone in exploring the aspect or possibility that he maybe involved ....

Yes he can be tiring...

so if ya see purple .... scrolling by maybe an easy solution.

Puggle I would never scroll on by, your insights and posts are amazing and I think you're point regarding people with NPD using drugs is correct, have seen it first hand. They do use and it does somewhat impact on their behaviour but I still believe, and that's only my opinion, that he may certainly have the capabilities to have done something but I truly believe he would not have been able to keep his mouth shut for long enough to get away with it.

You're great puggle.

 

[Melbourne Lass]

Lerderderg State Park really does look like a 'logical' place (if such a thing can be said) according to the pings.

With a secondary road that goes from Digger's Rest to Gismore, the long way around, past the forest - and via Toolem Vale.

I wonder if they will get the dogs out into that forest.

I've never been to this State Park. For those of you who have (like Park.al), is it easy to take a car close to bushland? BR was driving a Mercedes not a 4WD so I'm guessing he wouldn't have been able to go off road. Also, he would have to be able to drive close to where he hid Karen's body because he would have to carry her (and without being seen).

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Whoops, accidentally attached your post, Melbourne Lass to my random comment about digging. It happens [emoji849].



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[UndiscoveredTruth]

Puggle I would never scroll on by, your insights and posts are amazing and I think you're point regarding people with NPD using drugs is correct, have seen it first hand. They do use and it does somewhat impact on their behaviour but I still believe, and that's only my opinion, that he may certainly have the capabilities to have done something but I truly believe he would not have been able to keep his mouth shut for long enough to get away with it.

You're great puggle.

Me neither!! I would never just scroll and not read, Puggles posts. Dots and all, I thoroughly enjoy reading them. That goes for every member who makes the effort to post. I enjoy reading the posts, whether I agree with them or not. I respect the fact that they have an opinion and wish to voice it. I didn't get the impression at all that Puggles was telling Makara to shuddup. Puggles believes AR may be involved with KR's disappearance (again, Puggles, you're not alone, I too believe that, to what extent though, I'm not sure, still trying to figure it out) and would like to post her thoughts/opinions on him. Makara has stated she thinks AR's a waste of time and space, should not be given the attention, nothing wrong with that either. I don't even believe, Puggles "so if ya see purple......scrolling by maybe an easy solution" was directly solely at Makara, it was directed at all members who think AR is insignificant and a waste of time and space. She doesn't want to bore you with her theories re AR, so easy solution is just to scroll on by, saving members from wasting time reading about AR. I may have it wrong, but I don't think I do! Okay, back to reading for me!

 

[Puggle]

"If ya see purple" -Puggle's profile pic is purple. I think they were saying that if their opinion bothers you then just scroll past. I didn't read it as telling you to shut up.


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I had to sleep....

In my absence .... thank you ...and that is correct.

Just saying it sounds like discussion of him is one your getting tired of hearing .... but i think it was mainly me doing so.... and definately not what you were thinking...

So no lol....

 

[Park.al]

I've never been to this State Park. For those of you who have (like Park.al), is it easy to take a car close to bushland? BR was driving a Mercedes not a 4WD so I'm guessing he wouldn't have been able to go off road. Also, he would have to be able to drive close to where he hid Karen's body because he would have to carry her (and without being seen).

Heaps of tracks you could still drive a standard car into. Wouldnt be ideal but you certainly could. It would likely come out needing a good wash though! Has it been mentioned it was a sedan mercedes in MSM or is that just an assumption? As they do make SUV's which would gain better access.


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[Melbourne Lass]

IMO one of the strange things in this case (apart from the obvious) is that Karen allegedly took her Coach handbag and purse when she left home to go for a walk. I don't believe for a minute that Karen actually went for a walk but why was that information about her handbag and purse thrown into the mix? Karen and Borce were involved in the rag trade and would know 1,001 brand names so the dropping of the Coach brand isn't really a big deal. Who gave that information to police? Was it BR or SR? Either way we've been given a description of the Coach handbag, purse and what Karen was allegedly wearing on the day she disappeared, yet no shoes were mentioned. That's odd IMO. I feel that the handbag and purse were actually in Karen's car and were either disposed of with her, or then again, they may even turn up in a cupboard or wardrobe.

I posted about Karen's handbag and purse up thread, but nobody answered my question. I agree, Makara, that the handbag and purse are significant. It's quite a distinct handbag (gold). Which could be why the police placed such a big emphasis on it when she went missing. And the Coach brand - I never heard of it before this case (which doesn't mean much, I suppose, because I'm not into designer brands). If someone was to find the bag, it would be quite distinct.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ne-Vic-29-June-2016-5&p=12774826#post12774826

I've thinking a lot about her bag and purse recently, hence my question on opinions here whether the bag/purse would be disposed of with Karen's body or somewhere else. If her handbag is with her body, it would have to be concealed quite well because of the gold colour which would make it more visible and easy to see.

The advantages (for the killer) of disposing of Karen's handbag with her body:
* one disposal site - get in and get out quickly to reduce chances of being seen.
* if her body is found, BR then can stick to his claim that an "evil predator" abducted her and killed her.
* the handbag cannot be found separately from her body therefore less clues to be found in the event her handbag is discovered first.

The advantages of disposing of the handbag and purse elsewhere:
* if the body is found first, would take more time to get an ID the more time passes.
* the killer might think that could point to an abduction/robbery "gone wrong" (hence, the statement she left the house with $850 cash on her person).
* since it's quite a distinct handbag, would be more likely to be seen by others if he disposed of it with her body.
* it's much easier to dispose of a handbag than a body in certain places without it being found given its size.
*can dispose of it in a different area further away from the body to reduce the likelihood that KR's body will be found.

If BR had her handbag with him in the car, he most likely would have had to put it in the boot. Can you imagine if LE had pulled him over and noticed a female's handbag on the passenger seat but no female in the car? I wonder how he would have explained that.

I need to mull over this a bit more...