Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #6

[suzyjackson]

I'd like to know WHY BR has teamed up with top criminal lawyer Robert Stary (best known for defending Julian Assange and Carl Williams).
He'd be paying big bucks and it doesn't look like any of it will be retrievable (might be wrong) So he must have lots of disposable cash somewhere.
So then it takes me back to thinking and I dont think Borce had a financial motive if he is responsible for Karens fate.

From what I read from their website
"If I win my case can I claim my legal costs?
Yes you can in the Magistrates’ Court but this is at the discretion of the Magistrate.
Costs cannot be recovered in the County Court or the Supreme Court."

Do you think there might be a personal connection between BR and the lawyer, maybe they know each other otherwise it's I wonder why an expensive firm would take on a client who is known to have financial problems for what could end up being a very large bill

 

[moreinfo]

Hopefully this makes sense and you know where im getting at with how easy it is to stuff the key situation up. Explaining it to police and then not adding up…….

On the car/house keys issue- I wonder what he’s told them about that. Were KR or BR’s keys missing? (you know if they were going to do a car swap, he had her keys, she had his, he had her car for the day she had his)
Did BR hand police KRs spare car key or usual car key. Or did he hand over her full house set with car key (this scenario wouldn’t add up b/c her work keys would be on there, and as far as he was concerned she was going to work with his car)

KR goes for a walk that morning. She needs to get back in the house at some stage. So she has her set of keys or Borces set of keys. So there is a set of keys missing (and they would probably be hers) b/c she never came back from that walk.

She leaves BR her car key (b/c shes told Borce to check her fuel gauge) But does he have her full set of house/car keys on him or has she taken her car key off her set of keys (its an old Merc, would she have remembered where her spare key was placed, or was it just easier to use the current one?) Police would know if the car key that was handed in from Karens car was a spare or not (would look new I’d imagine).

So BR has KRs car keys, her staff were expecting her to be at work that morning, so if shes sent BR to check her faulty gauge, she was going to get to work with Br’s car. So KR has Borces full set of car/house keys? or just his car keys b/c she’d probably still need her own keys to get into the shop and close the shop right?
His spare car key? Was this spare car key still at the house, if she hadn’t attached it to her house keys or is it missing?

So when BR got back home at 12noon as reported, did he find his single car key where he’d left it? Or did KR have it attached to her home keys (which she had with her on the walk).
How many sets of keys did Bella Bleu have? Did her staff have a set? Were they able to get in that day? Was it common knowledge by the staff or his daughter, if BR had his own set of Bella Bleu keys? Has he gone to the store to open/close since with his set, or is he using KRs set?


What car keys and house keys did he show police?

 

[moreinfo]

Do you think there might be a personal connection between BR and the lawyer, maybe they know each other otherwise it's I wonder why an expensive firm would take on a client who is known to have financial problems for what could end up being a very large bill

Well he must have the money, which is why i dont think its financial. I cant see his brother loaning him money to get the best lawyer if there was a cheaper option, knowing he probably would not get this money back.

I would also not like to think he's prepared to use all his available funds, knowing he still has his daughter around and he needs to carry on. Whatever happens to him, they still have a household to run and that all costs money. If he's not guilty any lawyer would do b/c the facts and evidence should be enough. Hence if finances were tight, he wouldn't have sought a top lawyer.

 

[moreinfo]

Timeline so far

7am last time SR sees her mum before leaving ?
10:30 BR takes KRs car for a spin to diggers rest. KRs car exits and seen on cctv
BR receives calls from Bella bleu staff late that morning to say Karen had failed to show up for work, leading him to call her frequently on her mobile phone without getting any reply(this 2nd part may or may not be true)
12noon BR is back at home
BR Received a request to drive for Uber late afternoon (might be when cctv caught other car leaving property
KRs phone pinged (near Gisborne) hours after 10am
BRs phone pinged Diggers rest that day
BRs phone switched off for 2 hours that day

If the cctv camera has caught two cars leaving, im sure its also picked up on SR’s movements that day during day light hours at least
We also don’t know if the cars were seen leaving early that morning from 7-10am.
We also don’t know if it picked up any other family members cars that day.
We’ve only been told a limited amount of course.

 

[Bohemian]

This article provides information about Cadaver Dogs and is very interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...th-behind-the-crime-scene-canines-835047.html

Following on regarding cadaver-detection dogs being used in Australia. The NSW (and Queensland AFAIK) police have specially-trained cadaver-detection dog teams, eg:

Cadaver Dogs: A Specialist Asset
Story: Norris Smith
Photos: Reuben Ennor
NSWPF Corporate Communications Unit
Police Monthly June 2014

The skills of NSWPF teams aren’t just used locally – they also assist other agencies, both in Australia and overseas.“In the wake of the devastating Victorian bushfires of February 2009, Oscar and I were deployed at the request of Victoria Police to search a number of fire-destroyed residences,” L/Snr Cst Cole said.

“Due to the intensity of the bushfires, remains were visually unidentifiable from fire-damaged structures. The remains ranged in size from five cent piece to 20 cent piece bone fragments and the dog’s skill was definitely put to the test during the search.Oscar was directly responsible
for the location and recovery of the remains of a number of deceased victims, which helped bring closure for their bereaved family members.”

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...ggQMAA&usg=AFQjCNFKKNp50dGygN1b3zDHcmY0WL3Gyg (.PDF 271KB)

 

[tiddles24]

Maybe this case is more complex than we are led to believe?..........AR more involved, as time marches on?......:banghead:

 

[1968]

Well he must have the money, which is why i dont think its financial. I cant see his brother loaning him money to get the best lawyer if there was a cheaper option, knowing he probably would not get this money back.

I would also not like to think he's prepared to use all his available funds, knowing he still has his daughter around and he needs to carry on. Whatever happens to him, they still have a household to run and that all costs money. If he's not guilty any lawyer would do b/c the facts and evidence should be enough. Hence if finances were tight, he wouldn't have sought a top lawyer.

Hi moreinfo, some high profile lawyers act pro bono at times especially if a high profile case. If the shop was struggling and the couple had a fairly sizeable mortgage on their home, and Borce is driving for Uber, can't see much money on the table.
IMO we will probably see Bella Bleu close down in the not too distant future.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Sadly I think Karen left without shoes in the boot of a car.

 

[1968]

Sadly I think Karen left without shoes in the boot of a car.

I believe so too Mrs Norris. And I think the police believe that as well.

 

[Pepper77]

Maybe this case is more complex than we are led to believe?..........AR more involved, as time marches on?......:banghead:

I definitely agree with your first sentence, tiddles ... hopefully they'll (law enforcement and investigative reporters) will keep poking the hornet's nest that this is, but I won't be surprised if we never hear what really happened.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe this case is more complex than we are led to believe?..........AR more involved, as time marches on?......:banghead:

I'm not sure that the case is more complex than any other DV case. I think that we have just learned about the dysfunctions in this family. Most families have them to one degree or another. And any amount of situations can be derived from them.
But I don't think the police will find the dysfunctions so distracting or confusing. They will have seen most everything before, know what they see, and will stay with it until its conclusion.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just wanted to post this, about Jill Meagher's case. It hasn't happened in Karen's case. In fact, quite the opposite seems to be happening. (BBM)
In 3 days, Tom was effectively cleared from all suspicion ... and he had been home, alone, all night ... which could have been seen as a 'weak alibi'. I think he could have been cleared by verification of his phone pings and activity, and CCTV from their own building, as well as his own demeanour and cooperation.



"The first step for police was to confirm that Ms Meagher had not reached her destination, which meant interviewing her husband, Tom.

He was told firmly, but politely, that the homicide squad begins with those closest to the victim and then works its way out in ever-increasing circles. The reality is that in the vast majority of murders the victim knows the offender and in most cases involving females they are killed by their partners.

They told Mr Meagher the quicker they could clear him as a suspect, the quicker they could move on.

Some of Mr Meagher's initial answers were contradictory and confused, hardly surprising considering his level of stress. He had fallen asleep in front of the television late on Friday night and missed a text from his wife saying, ''Meet me at the pub''.

Police corroborated much of his story, effectively removing him from the suspect list by Tuesday. He was as he appeared: a decent man subjected to grief beyond imagination."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

 

[tiddles24]

I'm not sure that the case is more complex than any other DV case. I think that we have just learned about the dysfunctions in this family. Most families have them to one degree or another. And any amount of situations can be derived from them.
But I don't think the police will find the dysfunctions so distracting or confusing. They will have seen most everything before, know what they see, and will stay with it until its conclusion.

Disturbances in the *r$ant#s nest* have certainly added some colour and confusion to the case....MOO...:notgood:

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess I see AR as a bit like Adrian Bailey (ice addicted) or Gable Tostee/Eric Thomas (big drinker) who could not cover their crimes cleanly or very well at all. I think Karen might have been found by now if he was responsible for her disappearance.
And I see Borce a bit more like John Chardon (business-wise, but failed) - a schemer and a planner who may have managed to conceal Karen well, done an adequate job of destroying directly-incriminating evidence, and adequately convinced his daughter of his innocence.

And ... I could be totally wrong. lol

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I guess I see AR as a bit like Adrian Bailey (ice addicted) or Gable Tostee/Eric Thomas (big drinker) who could not cover their crimes cleanly or very well at all. I think Karen might have been found by now if he was responsible for her disappearance.
And I see Borce a bit more like John Chardon (business-wise, but failed) - a schemer and a planner who may have managed to conceal Karen well, done an adequate job of destroying directly-incriminating evidence, and adequately convinced his daughter of his innocence.

And ... I could be totally wrong. lol

I've been thinking about this too, South Aussie. However, what if AR met KR and maybe BR in park or secluded spot away from his home, there would be no evidence back at his place, presumably ...... also, he had a couple of weeks before he came to police attention, plenty of time to get his act together out of the spotlight, in my opinion. Phone pings traced to Diggers Rest that day, AR in chemist up there that day.

 

[they'll get you]

Sadly I think Karen left without shoes in the boot of a car.

Allison Baden-Clay was said to have had joggers on but still her mannequin was displayed without shoes. There was a lot of talk here in WS about the difference shoe laces are tied by the wearer as opposed to someone else tying the laces.

 

[SouthAussie]

I've been thinking about this too, South Aussie. However, what if AR met KR and maybe BR in park or secluded spot away from his home, there would be no evidence back at his place, presumably ...... also, he had a couple of weeks before he came to police attention, plenty of time to get his act together out of the spotlight, in my opinion. Phone pings traced to Diggers Rest that day, AR in chemist up there that day.

I'm not really seeing a reason for AR to have met with Karen at all, particularly when it was Wednesday morning when Karen was scheduled to work.

If they had agreed to assist AR financially in expensive rehab (which seems out of their realm, at this point in time, due to finances/shop closure/etc), there was still no reason to visit him on a Wednesday morning or any other time, unless they were driving him there. I don't see AR as the type to go and get all the rehab paperwork, and work through it all, and we have heard nothing along those lines at all - from anyone.

AR's apparent grievance against Karen stems from quite a few years ago. He has probably had many chances to enact the most violent revenge before now.

:dunno:

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I'm not really seeing a reason for AR to have met with Karen at all, particularly when it was Wednesday morning when Karen was scheduled to work.

If they had agreed to assist AR financially in expensive rehab (which seems out of their realm, at this point in time, due to finances/shop closure/etc), there was still no reason to visit him on a Wednesday morning or any other time, unless they were driving him there. I don't see AR as the type to go and get all the rehab paperwork, and work through it all, and we have heard nothing along those lines at all - from anyone.

AR's apparent grievance against Karen stems from quite a few years ago. He has probably had many chances to enact the most violent revenge before now.

:dunno:

You're probably right, I've had a lot of crackpot theories SouthAussie, hee hee, and this is merely another one of 'em ..... but having said that, if I could add this - if he's on ice he'll be up for maybe 3 days without sleep, may have rung wanting money, err,
he said he threatened suicide at some point, maybe they just rushed up with the money early in morning around 7/8 and thought would be back in time for work at 9, except an unexpected catastrophic event occurred!

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[SouthAussie]

You're probably right, I've had a lot of crackpot theories SouthAussie, hee hee, and this is merely another one of 'em ..... but having said that, if I could add this - if he's on ice he'll be up for maybe 3 days without sleep, may have rung wanting money, err,
he said he threatened suicide at some point, maybe they just rushed up with the money early in morning around 7/8 and thought would be back in time for work at 9, except an unexpected catastrophic event occurred!

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

I don't think your theories are crackpot.
That's what we are here for, to discuss theories and support the victim.

 

[Adrianna]

Sadly I think Karen left without shoes in the boot of a car.

Its certainly seeming that way, I would think there is zero chance of her going for a walk with no shoes on, she doesn't strike me as someone who would.