GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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  • #421
Amy Dale ‏@amydale_tele 3m
Simon Gittany's counsel has called an eating disorder expert as part of his defence, via @dailytelegraph

https://twitter.com/amydale_tele
 
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  • #424
I had a thought before... SG has admitted that he was monitoring Lisa's text messages & emails. We have heard some of the contents of these messages. Why haven't we heard more? How long was he monitoring her for? If he is as controlling as suggested, wouldn't there have been hundreds/thousands of messages between them, him asking her where she is, who she has seen etc....

IF these text messages were available (you would assume they would be stored via the software program, if there was no interference) then both sides could be using them to back their claims: e.g. SG claims he was going to pay for a trip to Canada if Lisa put on weight - this may have been discussed or referenced to in messages.
 
  • #425
operationspirit said:
I think this trial could go either way. To me the only substantial evidence is the eyewitness testimony from the man walking to work. The lack of fingerprints on the balcony is suspicious, but no damming.

If the eyewitness testimony does not hold up, then the judge would not have enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt.

It's hard to believe that this incident wasn't caught on camera somewhere.
Click to expand...

I do have some hope though...
Senior Prosecutor Mark Tedeschi QC is the man whose questioning put Ivan Milat away forever - while Milat would never admit to his crimes in the court room - and still wont - he was convicted. Tedeschi saved countless lives from that murderers gun.
In that case it was an eyewitnesses account and testimony that drove the prosecution - Paul Onions.

Tedeschi needs to ask a 'rubber glove' question to SG - just like he did with Ivan Milat. Lets hope there is a 'AHA!' moment with this case - just make it soon!

.
 
  • #426
  • #427
mirage1 said:
it could go either way only because judges are so clueless, and give too much benefit of doubt when there is none because of their blind allegiance to the law.

In reality, all the evidence points to her murder. Why would the eye witness testimony not 'hold up'? multiple witnesses all say pretty much the same thing. They are not lying and just making it up.

Her lack of finger prints on the balcony directly refutes his side of the story. This is damning.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I would rather judges follow their allegiance to the law because that's their job. If SG gets off, I'll be none too happy, but if it's because the evidence doesn't hold up legally, well, I don't know what else the judge can do. The system is flawed but it seems to me that there has to be some room for error or we would be convicting innocent people left right and centre. I'll now duck the tomatoes coming my way :doorhide:

My issue is with SG getting a judge only trial is that it was down to his finances. How is that fair? Either make all murder trials by judge or jury, but it shouldn't be selective imo. A judge and jury are not going to view the evidence the same way, which is not to say either is right or wrong, but there should be consistency if you ask me.
 
  • #428
Brightbird said:
Respectfully, I would rather judges follow their allegiance to the law because that's their job. If SG gets off, I'll be none too happy, but if it's because the evidence doesn't hold up legally, well, I don't know what else the judge can do. The system is flawed but it seems to me that there has to be some room for error or we would be convicting innocent people left right and centre. I'll now duck the tomatoes coming my way :doorhide:

My issue is with SG getting a judge only trial is that it was down to his finances. How is that fair? Either make all murder trials by judge or jury, but it shouldn't be selective imo. A judge and jury are not going to view the evidence the same way, which is not to say either is right or wrong, but there should be consistency if you ask me.
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While the judge only trial seems to be finance related there were other factors which the judge did take into consideration. If the trial had to be adjourned who knows how long it would take before it made it back to court (especially considering a certain person was out on bail) Prosecutor preferred a judge alone rather than going into adjournment too.

Last Updated: 18 October 2013

39. Two further important considerations arise against the risk of an adjournment. The first is that the mother of the deceased lives in Canada and presently plans to travel to Australia for the trial commencing next Monday. More importantly, the eyewitness, Mr Rathmell, has communicated with the Crown's instructing solicitor by email to say that, if the trial is adjourned, he may not be available. He is due to travel to America, evidently for permanent employment, and has emphasised that it would occasion considerable embarrassment and inconvenience to him if the trial does not proceed within a two-week window evidently notified to him on the strength of the present trial date

40. In the face of that further evidence and other material, when the hearing of the application resumed before me last Thursday, the Crown stated that, whilst he still formally opposed the application for trial by a judge alone, if it were ultimately a choice between a lengthy adjournment and a trial by judge alone the Crown would prefer a trial by judge alone.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...03.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=simon gittany
 
  • #429
Reading this article the other day, it struck me that the hard drive was removed after SG was arrested. Now if anything makes me a little suspicious about the way this was handled, that does. Hopefully, it was after police had finished forensically examining the apartment. Things that make you go hmmm :waitasec:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/balcony-d...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2k2Sgb8rk

Mr Gittany asked his brother to remove an external hard drive from the ceiling of a Sydney unit.

He did this after he was arrested on August 4, 2011 and remanded in custody.
Click to expand...
 
  • #430
SouthAussie said:
Today Tonight showed something about Lisa's death last night ... I caught the very tail end of it, showing a reporter standing in front of their apartment building ... but missed the rest of the article. Have been searching for the video today online, but can't find it.

I'm sure it wouldn't have breached the judge's order, but I am still interested to know what it contained.

Did anyone else see it? Not sure if it only played in Adelaide, or if it was nationwide. Have looked at Today Tonight video for Adelaide and nationwide, but ... nothing. :dunno:
Click to expand...

First time poster!

What I found particularly interesting with the Today Tonight fiasco is that they were advertising "shocking revelations" during Beauty & The Geek on THURSDAY night, before they approached SG arriving at court on Friday morning. How could they have known that Friday's encounter would bring about explosive revelations? Very presumptious... Unless they had some specific piece of information that hasn't been in MSM that they put to SG...

Brightbird said:
Reading this article the other day, it struck me that the hard drive was removed after SG was arrested. Now if anything makes me a little suspicious about the way this was handled, that does. Hopefully, it was after police had finished forensically examining the apartment. Things that make you go hmmm :waitasec:
Click to expand...

I would also like to know where this hard drive has been the last 2 years, and how it can conveniently just show up now when the trial is on. Would also like to know categorically that it's the same hard drive and not one bought some time later.
 
  • #431
Welcome to the Forum lavelle72!

:welcome:
 
  • #432
lavelle72 said:
I would also like to know where this hard drive has been the last 2 years, and how it can conveniently just show up now when the trial is on. Would also like to know categorically that it's the same hard drive and not one bought some time later.
Click to expand...

Hi lavelle72, mirage1, operationspirit & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you all on board :)

Re the hard drive....

November 8, 2013

Mr Gittany asked his brother to remove an external hard drive from the ceiling of a Sydney unit.

He did this after he was arrested on August 4, 2011 and remanded in custody.

The court heard there was a possibility Ms Harnum's final moments were recorded on the hard drive.

Mr Gittany said he did not know where the hard drive was on Thursday but on Friday, IT consultant Craig McCoy appeared in court with the hard drive in hand.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/balcony-d...wn-in-court-20131108-2x6q5.html#ixzz2kJd28gEA

I think we'd all like to know where exactly that hard drive has been since it was removed after he was arrested back in August 2011. Long time for it to go "missing" then turn up again over two years later.

I'd also like to know if the interior of the hard drive had possibly been removed & replaced with other parts.
 
  • #433
  • #434
Gittany told the court his fiancee stuck to a diet of "veggies, fish and a bit of fruit." But the court heard he had promised to pay for a trip to Canada to see her mother Joan if his 1.78m tall partner got her weight up to 50kg through training.
Click to expand...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ne...-jealous-partner/story-fnii5s3y-1226756912341

Do you think SG realises how awful this sounds? Who was he to decide the best way for Lisa to put on weight? What if she put the weight on by eating more, not training, would that count? In the context of everything else, this sounds like financial control as well. Here is a woman with body issues and an eating disorder, and her fiancée thinks it's ok to use a visit to her Mum as a reward if she exercises more? And it contradicts his claim that he didn't know about her eating disorder. Oh, I could go on and on about this.
 
  • #435
Thank you fig tree and sleepingoz for your assistance withnwebslueths lingo:gthanks:
 
  • #436
Posted 1 hour 8 minutes ago

Court hears woman allegedly thrown to her death was suffering from an eating disorder

"But Prosecutor Mark Tedeschi said Lisa Harnum had taken decisive steps to leave Simon Gittany, had put on around four kilograms over the last six months of her life and had got her period back, an indication she was doing well.

He also challenged the psychiatrist on the link between eating disorders and suicide.

"Do you agree that 98 or 99 per cent of people with anorexia nervosa do not commit suicide?" he said.

"Yes," Professor Hay said."
 
  • #437
Just a thought. When he went back inside to get a shirt i wonder if he took the opportunity to rub all evidence off the railing and then ran back out putting the shirt on so he looked like he had just gone back for some clothing. A normal personwould have run out as they were. Especially to get to the ground floor asap to help his beloved.
 
  • #438
Marg from Oz said:
Just a thought. When he went back inside to get a shirt i wonder if he took the opportunity to rub all evidence off the railing and then ran back out putting the shirt on so he looked like he had just gone back for some clothing. A normal personwould have run out as they were. Especially to get to the ground floor asap to help his beloved.
Click to expand...

Im thinking by that time possibly there would have been quite a few people (bystanders) looking up to the direction of the balconys to see where she may have come from. If SG did go out and wipe the balcony glass - hopefully someone would have seen something unusual and reported it. I guess it also depends upon who stayed at the scene of the accident and did Police take their names or call for anyone who had seen anything to come forward.

.
 
  • #439
Marg from Oz said:
Just a thought. When he went back inside to get a shirt i wonder if he took the opportunity to rub all evidence off the railing and then ran back out putting the shirt on so he looked like he had just gone back for some clothing. A normal personwould have run out as they were. Especially to get to the ground floor asap to help his beloved.
Click to expand...

I tend to think he only went back in to grab a shirt as he was only concerned with his own "appearance".

As has been previously mentioned, he made time to grab a shirt but didn't bother to go call an ambulance. By doing that he would have known police would arrive as well. Delaying arrival of police = time to get a "story" together.
 
  • #440
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