GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[Makara]

ABC News ‏@abcnews Simon Gittany's defence team tells a Sydney court that if he was abusive that does not mean he killed his fiance http://ab.co/186C6In

https://twitter.com/abcnews

 

[SouthAussie]

Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Defence barrister is 'very confident he'll be finished by lunch tomorrow'. Judge expected to retire to consider Gittany verdict after that

As far as I'm concerned, he could have been finished 10 minutes after he started. What on earth has he said/could he say that conjures up reasonable doubt? :waiting:

 

[Jo04]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

"There is no evidence of blood....no evidence of ripped clothes...and there is absolutely no evidence at all of a struggle" Gittany's lawyer

But the video certainly does show evidence.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[SouthAussie]

Today Mr Strickland told the court that even if the prosecution's characterisation of Gittany as abusive and controlling was accepted, it did not make him a murderer.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/19828695...ells-court-over-death-of-fiancee-lisa-harnum/


No, what makes him a murderer is the fact that a credible witness watched him drop her from the balcony.

The rest of the extremely disturbing evidence simply supports the fact that he was capable of the witnessed act, and angry enough to do it.

I do not care what people say about the reliability of some witnesses, without good witnesses many crimes would not be prosecuted in the first place. The police know that, the prosecutor knows that, the judge knows that …. heck, the defence knows that.

Many, many kudos to this witness – IMO he has made this case solid.

 

[bajas]

Thanks everyone for all the updates....I am so anxious that this guy will get away with this because time and again it has been proven that the law is one thing but justice is another.....

And thank you SouthAussie for welcoming me to this forum

 

[LadyBird1]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 1m

Gittany's lawyer Phil Strickland on Lisa's mum Joan 'some of her evidence has been infected by an understandable bias against Simon Gittany'

Isn't this an admission of "an understandable bias against Simon Gittany?"
What person in their right mind wouldn't have exactly that? Strickland included, but he is being paid to prove otherwise.
I too have an understandable bias, because this person displays an almost mirror image of another accused person in Brisbane. Even a few crocodile tears from the accused might have helped, but even that appears too hard.

His defence rests on his word that he didn't throw Lisa over the balcony. Is his word reliable?
His behaviour in the lift was certainly NOT that of shock horror or grief.
His behaviour when he arrived at ground zero was the same.

 

[LadyBird1]

Thanks to all concerned for all the updates.

"There is absolutely no evidence at all of any struggle between the accused and the deceased," he said.

"There weren't any signs of injury on the accused's body or face.

"There were no scratch marks, bite marks, bruises or any other type of injury to his face or body which you might think would probably have been inflicted Lisa Harnum's desperate attempt to prevent him from throwing her over the balcony."

He said the court had to avoid the "seductive" evidence of an eye witness, in this case Josh Rathmell who was walking to work when he says he witnesses Ms Harnum's murder.

It is very difficult to read this and not get angry.

Because: "There's none so blind as those who will not see."

There's no evidence...... !
Excuse me?
Except video evidence of the accused dragging Lisa to and fro in a stranglehold.

.....And those who heard her screaming...."The next-door neighbours of the couple have told the NSW Supreme Court they heard a loud banging on a door, followed by the screams of a woman"

....And the witness who saw the accused dumping her over the balcony.

No injuries to the accused's body or face.............

My humble thoughts: He had her in a headlock with her back against his chest thus rendering her completely helpless. Possibly even blocking off her air supply.
This is the reason he came out unscathed.

 

[Flinders]

It seems timely to re-post sections of a brilliant post by a WS member HAWKINS (another Thread) which spoke to the heart of violence against women:

"...the objectification of women is a vestigial sociological imperative that is well past its use-by-date. Women have been commodities in the physical, emotional and spiritual sense for many thousands of years. Very few people really appreciate the depth to which these subservient roles are ingrained. Violence towards women is still at epidemic levels in our community and this violence is not specific to any demographic.The levels of child sex abuse against girls is a national disgrace. Emotional violence and intimidation starts from a very young age, and many, many men humiliate their wives and female relatives without any sense that they are doing so. Any man who thinks that Australia is a society which has turned the corner and which provides equal expectations and opportunities for women should experience life from a woman's perspective for a while...
Violence against, and the objectification of, women is a deep social problem that is only vaguely recognised and addressed, despite ridiculous claims that women are now somehow mostly 'equal'...".

Public displays of affection may mask private violence and abuse. Abuse is done in private. The Judge would be expected to realise this important point. In this case, the victim was isolated and has now been silenced - but not without some independent supports with knowledge of her torment.

The Law needs to recognise and address violence against women more seriously through its sentancing power and this would convey an important message to our community.

:loveyou: Hi Fusky. Thanks for the quote from Hawkins.:seeya:

 

[Fuskier]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 55m
VIDEO Simon Gittany's lawyer says one can't eliminate the possibility Lisa Harnum intended to kill herself. http://video.au.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&vid=14ec5402-bbc3-4fb6-a9cc-662b8e336e66&from=sharepermalink-link … @9NewsSyd

A woman who runs for help to the neighbours and frantically bangs on their door seeking their help is not suicidal IMO.
There are NO witnesses to Lisa voluntarily getting over the balcony or standing/sitting/lying on the awning.
There ARE witnesses that she was seen lying in a horizontal position in Gittany's arms held out over the balcony when he unloaded.

 

[Fuskier]

Been reviewing the screen shots posted by Makara earlier, then the video of Gittany in the lift. He appears to be wearing a watch on his left arm and a silver bracelet on his right arm.
In the screen shot, he holds his left hand tightly over Lisa's mouth and nose whilst forcefully pulling her braided hair with his right hand. This is an act of absolute aggression and violent restraint and physical domination of one by another. He is significantly aggressively aroused. This is evidence of his mental state 69 seconds before she was found dead on the footpath! Generally, males can be capable of much violence in such a mental state and take a long time to calm down from such a state. Further evidence of his mental state is apparent in the lift following the incident. IMHO.:scale:

 

[SouthAussie]

Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 55m
VIDEO Simon Gittany's lawyer says one can't eliminate the possibility Lisa Harnum intended to kill herself. http://video.au.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&vid=14ec5402-bbc3-4fb6-a9cc-662b8e336e66&from=sharepermalink-link … @9NewsSyd

A woman who runs for help to the neighbours and frantically bangs on their door seeking their help is not suicidal IMO.
There are NO witnesses to Lisa voluntarily getting over the balcony or standing/sitting/lying on the awning.
There ARE witnesses that she was seen lying in a horizontal position in Gittany's arms held out over the balcony when he unloaded.

Agreed Fuskier. I also don't believe a woman whose mum was flying across the world to get her - a mum she missed terribly and hadn't seen in a long time, a mum for whom she had reportedly been trying hard to put weight on so that he would buy her a ticket to go and visit - would commit suicide before she had the chance to see and be with her mum again.

 

[FigTree]

ABC News ‏@abcnews Simon Gittany's defence team tells a Sydney court that if he was abusive that does not mean he killed his fiance http://ab.co/186C6In

https://twitter.com/abcnews

Really...
But an independent witness who saw SG throw her over the balcony does - doesn't it Mr Strickland?

 

[Marg from Oz]

I'm afraid I don't have much faith in judges. They certainly don't represent the views of the community. As with the latest case in the news of the getting only 4 years for murdering an innocent man with a king hit. Also the case of doctor accused of murdering his wife and burying in the park. I think it was in western Australia. Even leaving his calling card by the body and he was found not guilty, so I am not holding my breath on this one even though in my opinion he is guilty. If he is found not guilty of murder is there another charge that he could be found guilty of? Like hounding her to her death.

Give him :jail::jail::jail:

 

[LadyBird1]

Been reviewing the screen shots posted by Makara earlier, then the video of Gittany in the lift. He appears to be wearing a watch on his left arm and a silver bracelet on his right arm.
In the screen shot, he holds his left hand tightly over Lisa's mouth and nose whilst forcefully pulling her braided hair with his right hand. This is an act of absolute aggression and violent restraint and physical domination of one by another. He is significantly aggressively aroused. This is evidence of his mental state 69 seconds before she was found dead on the footpath! Generally, males can be capable of much violence in such a mental state and take a long time to calm down from such a state. Further evidence of his mental state is apparent in the lift following the incident. IMHO.:scale:

The word VOLATILE springs to mind.
The relationship.
The headlock.
The actions in the lift
The bizarre poking at the body..... did he want to confirm she was dead?
Not to mention any ear biting or break and enter matters of a 20 year old in 1994
Yes, VOLITILE seems to fit the bill precisely.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm afraid I don't have much faith in judges. They certainly don't represent the views of the community. As with the latest case in the news of the getting only 4 years for murdering an innocent man with a king hit. Also the case of doctor accused of murdering his wife and burying in the park. I think it was in western Australia. Even leaving his calling card by the body and he was found not guilty, so I am not holding my breath on this one even though in my opinion he is guilty. If he is found not guilty of murder is there another charge that he could be found guilty of? Like hounding her to her death.

Give him :jail::jail::jail:

I understand what you mean Marg from Oz ... too many people seem to get away with their crimes (especially the wealthy ones) ... but we have an eyewitness here. One who saw him drop Lisa. And that is hard to deny.

The defense has said the witness thought it was luggage - well if it was, where did the luggage go? And very coincidental that Lisa 'fell' at the same time.
If there was a question that it was SG dropping Lisa - no-one else was in the apartment, so how could it have been anyone else?
If there was a question that SG was trying to help Lisa, then why was Lisa in his arms then he released her and turned in one fluid motion to rush inside, so no-one would see him (too late!)?

I just cannot discount the eyewitness testimony in any way .. he is a responsible young guy, on his way to work at the ABC on a Saturday, who can see well, he heard the yelling, he looked up, he saw what he saw. Then he learned it was a person who was thrown, then he called police when he got to the safety of work (don't know if I would have told people right there either, not with the murderer standing there).

I don't know how the judge could possibly discount the eyewitness testimony. What credible witness would bother to get involved in the future, if this witness has gone through all this upheaval for nothing?

 

[Marg from Oz]

Southaussie I hope you are right and the judge does take into consideration the eye witness' testimony. I think I am being pesemistic so as not to be disappointed if it goes the other way. If he is found guilty i hope it is for a long time and not a token sentence for time served and a suspended sentence.

 

[LadyBird1]

Maybe Simon Gittany will be judged as an abusive and controlling partner of his fiancee, Lisa Cecilia Harnum, but that doesn't make him a murderer, his trial has heard.

Well! For once I agree with these words.

However, that does not detract from the fact that he might well be just that. And all the evidence points exactly that way. When he claims he didn't kill her etc: Is he saying HE didn't kill her.... Results of the fall killed her? Splitting hairs I know, but Narcissists are brilliant at many tactics. Also Narcissists and Lies go hand in glove.
Lisa Harnum's life was made extinct by someone. It was not by by her own hand. And there was no body else with her except the accused at the time.
Lisa Harnum was terrified of what the accused might do to her. Terrified and screaming for help in fact; seconds before her death.
A witness saw what turned out to be Lisa Harnum's body being discarded over the balcony by the accused.

How much clearer does the this have to be?

 

[SouthAussie]

Southaussie I hope you are right and the judge does take into consideration the eye witness' testimony. I think I am being pesemistic so as not to be disappointed if it goes the other way. If he is found guilty i hope it is for a long time and not a token sentence for time served and a suspended sentence.

It'll be okay Marg from Oz ... I'm a big believer in putting positive thoughts out there for what you want to happen, what you know is right. If we all keep pouring our positive thoughts toward a swift and correct decision, it just may help. lease:

 

[KG1]

A link to an article on judge alone/jury trial.

http://www.news.com.au/national/judge-or-jury-your-life-depends-on-this-deci
sion/story-fncynjr2-1226759899197

 

[SouthAussie]

A link to an article on judge alone/jury trial.

http://www.news.com.au/national/judge-or-jury-your-life-depends-on-this-deci
sion/story-fncynjr2-1226759899197

Interesting read, thanks KG1. I suspect there were a couple of other reasons why SG wanted a judge-only trial after reading that - prejudices, etc.


(Link is broken http://www.news.com.au/national/jud...on-this-decision/story-fncynjr2-1226759899197)