Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[sunnynz]

51 minute infomercial for Mondays episode. Could have been 2 minutes. There are now ads in the podcast.

they’re a media organisation so they need to make money to fund the podcast (salaries for journos, flights/travel for chasing down leads etc). It either happens by selling advertising space or by getting the listeners to pay to listen. I know which one I prefer.

 

[Mel 1303]

Interesting about NSW police protocol, thank you.

The doctor visits, had Marion been to that practice before? A doctor isn't going to investigate the identity of a new patient who presents with the appropriate Medicare card.

I don't particularly trust the bank. They'll say what they think is in their own interest to say, in my opinion, and it's probably too long ago for them to be sure they weren't either a little lax or not lax but deceived.

I think the card was used in Grafton? So probably a new patient. I guess it depends what she was going there for, as to how deep into her identity they would go. If it was an ongoing medical issue, she may well have had records from somewhere else?
If it was the bank in Byron, I would agree completely, but it was the colonial in Ashmore, where she lived- where she held an account no one knew about. There is a reasonable chance she knew the person who identified her. She was withdrawing the balance of the account- which could have been any amount, we just don't know. For me the fact that they were able to contact her later by phone suggests that at the very least they had updated her contact details- wouldn't it be good to know what that number was! There wasn't a huge amount of time between when Sally reported her mother missing and the bank having to remember. The bank sighting seems to be the basis for the initial identification as located.

I wonder why she had that separate account? She wasn't married, so its not like she had a secret stash hidden from her husband. Could she have been holding money for someone else?

 

[Mel 1303]

Delete double post

 

[Mel 1303]

Listening to todays conversations. Bryan was talking about the NCAT decision, of the police not handing over information. He states, at 16:31, that as Marion had been missing for more than 7 years, under their (police) own protocols she may be presumed dead and the next of kin given the information (in the police file). Marion was deemed located, and therefore not missing, so she did not fit any protocol for being missing for more than 7 years. Whether that process is right or wrong aside, it is tiresome to hear the truth be muddied so often.

 

[JLZ]

Listening to todays conversations. Bryan was talking about the NCAT decision, of the police not handing over information. He states, at 16:31, that as Marion had been missing for more than 7 years, under their (police) own protocols she may be presumed dead and the next of kin given the information (in the police file). Marion was deemed located, and therefore not missing, so she did not fit any protocol for being missing for more than 7 years. Whether that process is right or wrong aside, it is tiresome to hear the truth be muddied so often.

It's true Marion was deemed located, but it's more than seven years since then. Is the family entitled to raise the issue again, or being out of contact at Marion's wish, is their not knowing her whereabouts irrelevant?

 

[Mel 1303]

It's true Marion was deemed located, but it's more than seven years since then. Is the family entitled to raise the issue again, or being out of contact at Marion's wish, is their not knowing her whereabouts irrelevant?

My point was only about Bryan, and the accuracy of the statement. Marion had not been listed as a missing person for 7 years. She had been deemed, rightly or wrongly, as located. The family is absolutely entitled to raise the issue again- although that doesn't make them entitled to the information the police have. It is just a sad situation the whole way around. If Marion is out there, living a new life, she should be able to do so- but Sally should be able to be living her life, without so much uncertainty and anxiety.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I was thinking of what could possibly be in the american magazine and the thought crossed my mind that maybe it could be an ad in a lonely hearts section, or looking for a penfriend etc.
Maybe Marion put the ad in.

 

[JLZ]

I was thinking of what could possibly be in the american magazine and the thought crossed my mind that maybe it could be an ad in a lonely hearts section, or looking for a penfriend etc.
Maybe Marian put the ad in.

Maybe M. F. Remakel advertised in multiple countries.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh yes, could be.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Yes just listening now. They say in the full episode on Monday they will discuss a key document that they’ve got their hands on which provides a lot of answers about whet was happening at the time of marions disappearance. But also raises more questions.

they say it’s something they’ve been trying to get hold of for a long time. Wonder if it’s the flight manifest.

H'mm, the flight manifest, yes, could be that, sounds like it's a single document .... maybe Marion was travelling in a group on the plane and that group has been identified leading to more clues? In around 17 hours all will be revealed as the little podcast episode arrives ..... wheeeeeeeee
Afterthought: Maybe it was a New Age magazine found in Los Angeles, something to do with Hermes Far Eastern Shining or something like that, connecting Marion to it , found this from around 1999 .....
"According to a recent news item, the group has a growing band of followers in Tasmania, and is spreading through both Australia and America.
An online ad in a Chicago-based New Age publication shows a chiropractic center offering Infinity's ''Ecstacyshops.''In the U.S., the company apparently also works under the name, ''Earth Nucleus - Wild Fire'' - the only website Infinity refers to on it's links page.''Earth Nucleus - Wild Fire'' sells only one product, ''Earth Rising Miracle Lotion.'' However, the site's contact form refers back to Infinity for more items"
Whoops, I must stop speculating .... I just can't help myself, all will be revealed soon .........

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I was thinking of what could possibly be in the american magazine and the thought crossed my mind that maybe it could be an ad in a lonely hearts section, or looking for a penfriend etc.
Maybe Marion put the ad in.

Could be a photo from the red square teaching conference hosted by TSS

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I think the card was used in Grafton? So probably a new patient. I guess it depends what she was going there for, as to how deep into her identity they would go. If it was an ongoing medical issue, she may well have had records from somewhere else?
If it was the bank in Byron, I would agree completely, but it was the colonial in Ashmore, where she lived- where she held an account no one knew about. There is a reasonable chance she knew the person who identified her. She was withdrawing the balance of the account- which could have been any amount, we just don't know. For me the fact that they were able to contact her later by phone suggests that at the very least they had updated her contact details- wouldn't it be good to know what that number was! There wasn't a huge amount of time between when Sally reported her mother missing and the bank having to remember. The bank sighting seems to be the basis for the initial identification as located.

I wonder why she had that separate account? She wasn't married, so its not like she had a secret stash hidden from her husband. Could she have been holding money for someone else?

In pre-internet banking days it was very common for people to have specific types of accounts with separate banks. I.e. transaction accounts with a bank that was in a convenient location to visit (say near where you worked so you could pop in during your lunch break) and for your lending to be with a bank where you got the best deal.
Even though eftpos and telephone banking was well established most transaction accounts at that time only allowed a limited number of free withdrawals a month and after that you were charged per transaction. So at that time it was common for people to draw lump sums to live off rather than using eftpos/bill pay/direct debit.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

As far as Johnny Warren goes.. they spoke about the uncertainty over what ended it between them. I will look again for the source tomorrow but it was in 1971 he seperated from Marion the same year he recieved an injury that seemed like his soccer career would be over for good. It wasn't. He went on to recover and achieve even more. It was in 1997 that though no longer playing the Australian team were knocked out in Iran in qualifying for the 1998 World Cup. I am sure I read he was commentating on it that day... Like I say will double check tomorrow.... I just wonder if Marion partly really liked the idea of his celebrity status and when she thought it was all over she began to find him less appealing... I know it sounds awful just considering another possibility. I wonder if in hindsight she regretted their marriage ending and still pined for him. I wonder if in 1997 she was still thinking of him, with the world cup qualifying coming up wanted to forget.. maybe she intentionally looked for another at least former soccer player or someone with celebrity status? Maybe if f remakel was in fact the same soccer player f remakel.. she had known about him for a while or met him in 94, it amounted to nothing but she had wanted it to.. So imagined herself a remakel to remind herself of him. Maybe too wacky a theory...

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

It's true Marion was deemed located, but it's more than seven years since then. Is the family entitled to raise the issue again, or being out of contact at Marion's wish, is their not knowing her whereabouts irrelevant?

The 7 years is a legal period which applies to finalizing the estate of people who are "missing presumed dead". So for example if you were a passenger of a plane that crashed and your body wasnt recovered after 7 years your next of kin could apply for you to be declared legally deceased and your estate could be finalized. Marion however was not missing presumed dead, she was missing of her own volition so therefore the 7 year period cannot be applied to her from the point she disappeared. The distinction is the assumption of death. The police must have some evidence of activity for Marion/Florabella or they would have passed the file to the coroner - who can declare Marion deceased regardless of the passage of time.

You raise a really interesting point JLZ.
Given Marion is considered estranged not missing, at what point (if any) is it ok to reinvestigate a persons missing status to determine if they are still purposefully estranged or are now actually missing.

 

[Garyb]

I suspect the "document " may be a letter Marion had written to someone out lining her plans. They said it was being examined by experts which would suggest its not an official document. They are checking handwritting perhaps.
Another alternative may be checking the writing on the immigration arrival form.

I also suspect a NZ connection but they have established you needed to use a passport to go there in 1997.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I also suspect a NZ connection but they have established you needed to use a passport to go there in 1997.[/QUOTE]

Yip have needed a passport to travel between NZ and AUS since 1982

 

[JLZ]

Would Marion have inherited anything significant upon her father's death in 2003 if she was still alive then? If it's accepted that she's deceased, the presumed date of death might make a difference to the succession.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Does anyone know when and where the Mind, Body, Spirit Festival was held in 1997 in theUK? Just curious. Have found the date here but not overseas.

 

[poppypopcorn]

It was. Found this link with pictures of one of the atendees. Gallery Ehsan Healing However, dates for previous festivals appear to be May or November. And in London or Birmingham - again raises the question of why Sussex?

I don't think the Hermes people have anything to do with this.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

It was. Found this link with pictures of one of the atendees. Gallery Ehsan Healing However, dates for previous festivals appear to be May or November. And in London or Birmingham - again raises the question of why Sussex?

I don't think the Hermes people have anything to do with this.

Brilliant, thanks Poppypopcorn, was just interested to find if the festival was on while Marion was there in July, ah, it wasn’t ... so I’ll put that theory to rest then. Indebted. Thanks for the link.