Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[Garyb]

Wondering why there's been such a delay in the NCAT decision, it's sure taking a long time, unless the Member went on leave or something. So the matter was heard in June this year .... getting close to 6 months now without a decision. Here's a snippet off the NCAT website if anyone's interested:
"In some cases, the Tribunal Member will be able to give you their decision at the end of the hearing. However, in most cases the member will need time to consider the case and will give the decision at a later date. You will usually receive the decision within two months. Complex matters may take longer." H'mm, complex.
"You will receive a letter telling you of the decision that NCAT has made. You will be notified by phone before the reasons are published. You will receive a copy of the written decision, as well as information about your appeal rights. The decision will also be available on the Caselaw website."

It was stated on the facebook page that the decision would be handed down by the 16th of December.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

It was stated on the facebook page that the decision would be handed down by the 16th of December.

Thanks Garyb, so they must have the decision, maybe saving the result for Episode 16, a Christmas surprise for all the listeners. Wondering if they win the case if it would set a legal precedent ... might have a look at the citations on the subject, maybe that's why it's taken so long.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Yes, and probably back then when Marion was young she would have referred to Florabella as Mrs Stocks without knowing her first name, but if she met her when she was older then would have been by first name you'd think.
Just thinking about Florabella too down in the Blue Mountains .... Marion may have taken the class there for excursions or picnics, we used to do that in school, may have been happy times for her there ..... who knows

As Marion was interested in the orient express and Jane Austin I thought choice of name could have been inspired by literature or theater. I didnt find much other than the blinky bill authors home but there is a Florbella character in a children's book called the Wonderful Flying-Go-Round written by Dana Faralla (1965). In this story Mr and Mrs Florabella float down to a shanty town in a balloon and encourage the children to make their own magic (using imagination to realise their dreams).

 

[Itsapuzzle]

As Marion was interested in the orient express and Jane Austin I thought choice of name could have been inspired by literature or theater. I didnt find much other than the blinky bill authors home but there is a Florbella character in a children's book called the Wonderful Flying-Go-Round written by Dana Faralla (1965). In this story Mr and Mrs Florabella float down to a shanty town in a balloon and encourage the children to make their own magic (using imagination to realise their dreams).

Ah,yes Intrigued, Marion may have read that book to the children, (1965/66 release) .... I like the Natalia theory.
Also had a whacky idea that maybe the letters spell out something if you shuffle the letters from the new name Florabella Natalia Remakel haven't come up with anything with the shuffling yet .... 'free to be' is there ....

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Thanks Garyb, so they must have the decision, maybe saving the result for Episode 16, a Christmas surprise for all the listeners. Wondering if they win the case if it would set a legal precedent ... might have a look at the citations on the subject, maybe that's why it's taken so long.

I wonder if NCAT have the power to suppress media distribution of information?? Possibly not because they determine whether the information is withheld under privacy or able to be made public.

A decision hasnt been made on whether an inquest will be held but if the case goes to an inquest Sally will be given a copy of the police brief with everything in it - however I believe the coroner has the ability to suppress information being distributed by media.

 

[Morrisa]

alisonsandy
@alisonsandy
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21m

Thanks @acaststories and thank you to all our listeners. Episode 16, which comes out on Monday, is a ripper and 2020 is going to be huge! @theladyvanishes7news
@7newsaustralia
@BryanSeymour1

 

[KiwiNZ]

Thanks Garyb, so they must have the decision, maybe saving the result for Episode 16, a Christmas surprise for all the listeners. Wondering if they win the case if it would set a legal precedent ... might have a look at the citations on the subject, maybe that's why it's taken so long.

I agree I think they will update us on the podcast rather than post anything to the website.

I think the podcast and the media coverage could be a double edge sword, while it got Sally the outcome she wanted, they may also take into account the publicity around any decision they may make.

on a side note I feel really sorry for Det. Gary Sheehan I think he gave Sally more information that she was entitled to just because he wanted to help, he would have had no concept how big this was going to get, I am sure he would have got in a fair bit of trouble. Also the "friend" to accessed the arrival file at immigration, sure he probably doesn't have that job now.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I agree I think they will update us on the podcast rather than post anything to the website.

I think the podcast and the media coverage could be a double edge sword, while it got Sally the outcome she wanted, they may also take into account the publicity around any decision they may make.

on a side note I feel really sorry for Det. Gary Sheehan I think he gave Sally more information that she was entitled to just because he wanted to help, he would have had no concept how big this was going to get, I am sure he would have got in a fair bit of trouble. Also the "friend" to accessed the arrival file at immigration, sure he probably doesn't have that job now.

Me too! I really feel for Gary Sheehan and I hope there are no adverse consequences for him. What he did in sharing that extra info was so kind, he clearly wanted to help.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Yes, and probably back then when Marion was young she would have referred to Florabella as Mrs Stocks without knowing her first name, but if she met her when she was older then would have been by first name you'd think.
Just thinking about Florabella too down in the Blue Mountains .... Marion may have taken the class there for excursions or picnics, we used to do that in school, may have been happy times for her there ..... who knows

There is a lot more time in which Marion could have known Florabella from her time in Peakhurst, than from her short years in Marrickville as a child. The last available census is 1980 and Florabella was still on Wattle Street at that time. We now know, Marion stayed around the Peakhurst area , teaching for a while after she divorced Johnny Warren in 1971. Florabella moved to Peakhurst somewhere between 1968 and 1972..so it is about trying to figure out when she actually moved into the area and when Marion left the area. If only could just find something more on Florabella herself- even how old she was . Problem is back then for women , who were usually more often than not had the main job of "home duties"- there then will be very little historical information about them online.

I am still wondering about the Blue Mountain thing also, because someone said earlier that Marion actually taught in the Blue Mountains herself. Do we know what school? We know she married Ray Barter in Lapstone in 1985- so it likely would have been around this time she had a teaching job, somewhere in that region.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Another Florabella connection I had not come across before. There is a Florabella Drive in Robina, Queensland. It is not too far from Burleigh Heads and interestingly it is just a couple of streets away from a Jack Wilson Park - the name of Marion's father.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

excuse my ignorance, I am not sure what this is … is it a document confirming an agency has requested information on this person ? If so I assume its to do with the inquest and if so you kind of hope they haven't asked for the incorrect name to be searched.

also imagine if this is the spelling she used rather than Remakel, and they have been chasing the wrong lead (Fernand) all this time. Although you would hope the police would have stopped that line of harassment long ago if they had the incorrect name.

Yes, that is interesting KiwiNZ, it says the digital image has been supplied after a s.40 request. I thought the police had this in the file, so why would they be requesting another copy? Probably neither here nor there, but it's just curious. Re the spelling Remekel, Thunderwombat says it's not uncommon for typos to appear in the index ..... but anyway, I've still had a look around for the Remekel name and can only find a couple online in Palua. "Palau is an archipelago of over 500 islands, part of the Micronesia region in the western Pacific Ocean" Could Marion have headed out there to do teaching ..... nah, it's just a typo and Gary Sheehan has seen the card (err, I do get a little carried away) ....

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Another Florabella connection I had not come across before. There is a Florabella Drive in Robina, Queensland. It is not too far from Burleigh Heads and interestingly it is just a couple of streets away from a Jack Wilson Park - the name of Marion's father.

And only 12 kms from southport! But Im not sure the Robina address existed at the time of Marion's disappearance. The area looks to be vacant blocks and new builds

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Yes, that is interesting KiwiNZ, it says the digital image has been supplied after a s.40 request. I thought the police had this in the file, so why would they be requesting another copy?..

Found a PDF in FOI act (hope it attaches ok).

Section 40 of the FOI act recognizes the need for agencies to protect from release information necessary for the proper conduct of its operations where it is not in the public interest for such documents to be released.

There are 5 sub clauses pertaining to section 40 (operation of agency) under which information can be exempted.

From the looks, the police will be looking to demonstrate releasing further information would prevent them from efficiently/properly conducting their operations and Sally will be trying to show releasing more information is in the public interest.

The electronic file could be a letter notifying of the decision - or it might be the release of the additional information approved under this request.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

This is interesting .... and is that a typo??
View attachment 220325

So looking at this record again.

The title has Marion's new name with incoming 2 August 1997. So it looks like the digital images released relate to Marions reentry into Australia.

Looks like there were 2 digital images released. The reference details: NAA:A8140, R36916/F2800. NAA is national archives Australia and A8140 refers to the microform digitalisation repackaging project. I wonder what the 2 images are - passport and customs record maybe??

Perhaps these documents are no longer considered sensitive because Sally is already in possession of this information

 

[Garyb]

So looking at this record again.

The title has Marion's new name with incoming 2 August 1997. So it looks like the digital images released relate to Marions reentry into Australia.

Looks like there were 2 digital images released. The reference details: NAA:A8140, R36916/F2800. NAA is national archives Australia and A8140 refers to the microform digitalisation repackaging project. I wonder what the 2 images are - passport and customs record maybe??

Perhaps these documents are no longer considered sensitive because Sally is already in possession of this information

Didn't Sally only see the passport and immigration card copies when Gary Sheehan left them on the table to go to the toilet.

Like others i feel very sorry for Gary Sheehan, he is in a very difficult situation and shouldn't be vilified.

 

[KiwiNZ]

So looking at this record again.

The title has Marion's new name with incoming 2 August 1997. So it looks like the digital images released relate to Marions reentry into Australia.

Looks like there were 2 digital images released. The reference details: NAA:A8140, R36916/F2800. NAA is national archives Australia and A8140 refers to the microform digitalisation repackaging project. I wonder what the 2 images are - passport and customs record maybe??

Perhaps these documents are no longer considered sensitive because Sally is already in possession of this information

you would think if this was part of the investigation they would have also requested her departure card and passport as well, I don't know I just think that sounds like the obvious thing to do, probably wouldn't have shed an extra light but would confirm she left the day she stated to her family.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

May just be a slight difference, but it's important. The card for florabella remekel spells is with an e. Fernand and the man in the paper spell it remakel. Unless the card is a misprint, these are two totally different names. The remake theory is based on her having remake as part of her name, but if all along she changed it to Remekel... does Sally know for sure the spelling of this name change?

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Sorry only just seen the post explaining the typo in full!

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

you would think if this was part of the investigation they would have also requested her departure card and passport as well, I don't know I just think that sounds like the obvious thing to do, probably wouldn't have shed an extra light but would confirm she left the day she stated to her family.

I think the request was for access to everything in the police file. Its NCAT who have determined what was able to be provided.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Didn't Sally only see the passport and immigration card copies when Gary Sheehan left them on the table to go to the toilet.

Like others i feel very sorry for Gary Sheehan, he is in a very difficult situation and shouldn't be vilified.

Yes just a glimpse of the documents but the information from them - the new name has been broadcast and the return entry date confirmed by police and also broadcast. So I'm guessing that as these pieces of information having become generally known may be the two documents which have been released.

I feel the same way about Garry. I hope the new person being put on the case is to protect him from the criticism the podcast had directed toward him.