Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

But the other stuff on her passenger card was a lie (the Novotel and the date she said she was leaving Aus) so why would any of the rest of it be true?

I’m not sure what you mean that as the wife of an EU national that immigration wouldn’t be an issue? She would still have needed to have a continued term of residence in a European country in order to be gain citizenship. I wonder if the police are able to see spousal visas that have been applied for by Aus citizens? Surely they can?!

In the NCAT decision on of the documents from the police file is called "Department of Immigration and Citizenship to NSW police" (this one fully withheld so theres no information about it). But it does suggest there has been some investigation in this area (to see if Marion applied for a visa maybe??)

 

[Mjjj14]

I dont think Marion intended to remain in one place, regardless of her destination. Marion is described as 'restless' by her lifelong friend and she lived in a number of houses/places during her life.
Personally I dont think she planned to return overseas (i think the UK was an attempt to confound the search for her) I think her plan was to return to familiar surrounds to sort out her money and the possessions in storage and then move interstate. I also think she planned to move around.
The red flag for me is Marion not collecting her super. She was able to access it 2 years after her return to Australia and I would have thought this would have been a welcome injection of funds, especially as her family were already aware she wanted to start a new life.

Yes, this is so true. The super is the big ticket issue! Same with the Barclays money but to a much lesser extent.

 

[Mjjj14]

In the NCAT decision on of the documents from the police file is called "Department of Immigration and Citizenship to NSW police" (this one fully withheld so theres no information about it). But it does suggest there has been some investigation in this area (to see if Marion applied for a visa maybe??)

Good spotting!

If it’s fully withheld, that makes me think it’s got info in it. What do you think?!

 

[KiwiNZ]

All passengers returning to Luxemburg in the weeks/months following retrieval of the final banking funds need to be checked into. In case it was an imposter using Marion's identity. Has this been covered already - have all passengers been looked into or requested by Sally to be looked into?

You could not leave Australia on a different passport to that which you entered. Unless you were an Australian resident, you can travel on differnent passports but they must be in the same name.

For example If you enter Aus as a visitor on a uk passport you can not exit on a American passport, if you try to you would need to show how you entered Aus by producing the passport you entered on and the names would need to match. However they get prettty annoyed if you do this and you would likely miss your flight while they tripled checked that your intentions where not illegal.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Bonus Conversations 17 around 19.25 .... h'mm, there are 29 libraries listed in Los Angeles ... where was that magazine found - is it in an online catalogue .... would it be a vintage one from around 1997 .... Bryan says, "I doubt that this publication exists anywhere in Australia" .... this is making me crazy with curiosity, must find what it is .... "exists anywhere", does that mean it's not a defunct magazine, something still in circulation ..... ugghhhh .... "it's an extraordinary clue"

 

[bje111]

not

You could not leave Australia on a different passport to that which you entered. Unless you were an Australian resident, you can travel on differnent passports but they must be in the same name.

For example If you enter Aus as a visitor on a uk passport you can not exit on a American passport, if you try to you would need to show how you entered Aus by producing the passport you entered on and the names would need to match. However they get prettty annoyed if you do this and you would likely miss your flight while they tripled checked that your intentions where not illegal.

I don't mean checking for Marion or "potential imposter" - I mean checking for anyone coming into Australia then returning to Luxemburg who may be a possible link to Marion.

 

[Garyb]

not

I don't mean checking for Marion or "potential imposter" - I mean checking for anyone coming into Australia then returning to Luxemburg who may be a possible link to Marion.

But you wouldn't fly to Luxemburg direct. It could be any airport in europe that they flew into.

 

[Mel 1303]

I dont think Marion intended to remain in one place, regardless of her destination. Marion is described as 'restless' by her lifelong friend and she lived in a number of houses/places during her life.
Personally I dont think she planned to return overseas (i think the UK was an attempt to confound the search for her) I think her plan was to return to familiar surrounds to sort out her money and the possessions in storage and then move interstate. I also think she planned to move around.
The red flag for me is Marion not collecting her super. She was able to access it 2 years after her return to Australia and I would have thought this would have been a welcome injection of funds, especially as her family were already aware she wanted to start a new life.

The only reason I can think of where Marion would willing ignore her super would be the knowledge that she could be tracked in that way. She had try to fly under the radar when withdrawing the money from the bank, yet within a month Sally had found out and called the police. To touch the money again would be opening a chance of being identified.

 

[bje111]

But you wouldn't fly to Luxemburg direct. It could be any airport in europe that they flew into.

So there's no way to check????

 

[Mjjj14]

So there's no way to check????

Without having an indication of who the person was (if there even was a person) or an exact date range in which they left, it would be a huge task and would be like looking for one single needle in a field of haystacks.

 

[bje111]

Without having an indication of who the person was (if there even was a person) or an exact date range in which they left, it would be a huge task and would be like looking for one single needle in a field of haystacks.

100 per cent in agreeance here... it's the absolute essence of this case - searching for Marion is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack.... however, surely there must be some due dillegence that is able to be conducted to assess passengers travelling to/from Luxemburg in order to rule out any foul play in this regard. We cannot assume that Marion sought to stage her own disappearance from her family, without every single shred of evidence being fully investigated. Maybe she did stage her disappearance or maybe she met with "foul play" and was murdered. However, the truth will not come to the fore without every single step she took, or supposedly took, being looked over with a fine toothed comb. No matter what we all personally believe.

 

[Josiegirl62]

Bonus Conversations 17 around 19.25 .... h'mm, there are 29 libraries listed in Los Angeles ... where was that magazine found - is it in an online catalogue .... would it be a vintage one from around 1997 .... Bryan says, "I doubt that this publication exists anywhere in Australia" .... this is making me crazy with curiosity, must find what it is .... "exists anywhere", does that mean it's not a defunct magazine, something still in circulation ..... ugghhhh .... "it's an extraordinary clue"

Possibly?
Remackel Remacle Remakel of Luxembourg and Minnesota (Book, 2005) [WorldCat.org]

Would be interesting to see this book, done in 2005, not in LA, but it does appear to be a some genealogy re Remakel, might prove interesting.

 

[Mjjj14]

100 per cent in agreeance here... it's the absolute essence of this case - searching for Marion is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack.... however, surely there must be some due dillegence that is able to be conducted to assess passengers travelling to/from Luxemburg in order to rule out any foul play in this regard. We cannot assume that Marion sought to stage her own disappearance from her family, without every single shred of evidence being fully investigated. Maybe she did stage her disappearance or maybe she met with "foul play" and was murdered. However, the truth will not come to the fore without every single step she took, or supposedly took, being looked over with a fine toothed comb. No matter what we all personally believe.

I’m definitely not saying that it shouldn’t be checked.

Just for clarity, I’m saying that I’m not sure how it could be checked. You don’t fly direct to Luxembourg, you have to stop somewhere on the way, it then becomes increasingly difficult to pinpoint who came from Aus from many different airlines flying in and out of Europe and I don’t think that Luxembourg police could realistically investigate every person who arrived in 1997/1998 (as we have no specific date range).

That’s what I meant, I have no specific belief about what happened, just merely theorising.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

The only reason I can think of where Marion would willing ignore her super would be the knowledge that she could be tracked in that way. She had try to fly under the radar when withdrawing the money from the bank, yet within a month Sally had found out and called the police. To touch the money again would be opening a chance of being identified.

Yes you're right the speed in which she was contacted over the Bank withdrawals must have shaken her a bit. If she had moved away from the Byron Bay area accessing her super could result in her being traced to her new location.

 

[Garyb]

I think we are overthinking the whole mystery.
We have to keep in mind what Marion was like. She has been described as a bird brain by her former husband, others have said impulsive, restless a bit of a dreamer previously had breakdowns etc. i dont think she was the sort of person to plan some great conspiracy.
Maybe she couldn't cope with the pressure of TSS, a son with problems a daughter about to leave the family nest.
How do i escape from this? Change my name to florabella (a name she has always liked from someone she knew in her child hood)Natalia (born) marion remakel (remade). Head off to the
UK find she cant get a visa to work realises she cant make a new life in the UK. Comes back to Australia living in the fantasy world of her new identity.
Withdraws the money slowly until she realises people are asking questions panics and withdraws the balance of her money.
What does she do then as things start to come unstuck, move interstate? Suicide ? Join a cult? Have another breakdown and lost in the system like Cornelia Rau ?
I dont think we have a super brain here just someone a bit unstable struggling as her world falls apart

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Spontaneous .... could the magazine found in LA be a Scientology magazine called Freedom, been in publication since 1968 and still circulating now. H’mm, Scientology .... maybe .... haven’t found anything, but just a thought and will have a look around.

 

[Meligator]

I think we are overthinking the whole mystery.
We have to keep in mind what Marion was like. She has been described as a bird brain by her former husband, others have said impulsive, restless a bit of a dreamer previously had breakdowns etc. i dont think she was the sort of person to plan some great conspiracy.
Maybe she couldn't cope with the pressure of TSS, a son with problems a daughter about to leave the family nest.
How do i escape from this? Change my name to florabella (a name she has always liked from someone she knew in her child hood)Natalia (born) marion remakel (remade). Head off to the
UK find she cant get a visa to work realises she cant make a new life in the UK. Comes back to Australia living in the fantasy world of her new identity.
Withdraws the money slowly until she realises people are asking questions panics and withdraws the balance of her money.
What does she do then as things start to come unstuck, move interstate? Suicide ? Join a cult? Have another breakdown and lost in the system like Cornelia Rau ?
I dont think we have a super brain here just someone a bit unstable struggling as her world falls apart

Found this 1995 book review in AU law journal— titled: How to Disappear Completely and Never be Found. Includes special section for AU. My local library doesn’t have a copy unfortunately, but would certainly be interesting to know wonder if the suggestions in this book match any of Marions actions.

 

[Mel 1303]

Found this 1995 book review in AU law journal— titled: How to Disappear Completely and Never be Found. Includes special section for AU. My local library doesn’t have a copy unfortunately, but would certainly be interesting to know wonder if the suggestions in this book match any of Marions actions.

There is another article that goes into the techniques described in the book- I cant find it, will look on other computer. But yes, many of the things in the book directly line up with what Marion did.

 

[Garyb]

There is another article that goes into the techniques described in the book- I cant find it, will look on other computer. But yes, many of the things in the book directly line up with what Marion did.

Here is an article I found

How To Disappear Completely, Never Be Found (& It's 100% Legal)

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I wish we knew more about the storage container! It's the one part of her old life she took with her to the new life. Where it was delivered to would tell us her intial movements after Byron.

When I messaged Sally she said she thinks her Mum used Kent. In Kents terms and conditions, the owner signs an inventory of items when the stuff is collection and again on completion of transit. You can also add to your storage, so if Marion's stuff was stored locally she could possibly have offloaded some of that luggage on the way to the airport.
Kent sell via public auction (or destroy) unpaid/uncollected stuff. I had a look on Trove to see if there were any notices of sale gazetted but it looks as though this only happens for land/housing, I couldnt find anything published for personal property.