Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[JLZ]

RSBM- To me, it would be a really odd statement if it were not for the behaviours before Marion left for her trip. Quitting her job, not taking a leave without pay. Selling her house. Giving some of her antique furniture to Owen and Sally, as it will be theirs one day anyway. Putting other things in a shipping container- not a storage unit, but a transportable shipping container, that no one knows the location of. Changing her name by deedpoll, but then only changing her passport- nothing else- like a temporary travel name, all above board- hard to trace but cant get into trouble with the law abroad, but not a forever name. Then she is asked to say something that only Marion would know- maybe on the spot the car was all she could think of?

BBM, "Tell Sally I'm angry about the car" was to identify her for Sally? It's like something a spirit medium would say and the customer obligingly fills in the gaps and is convinced. Could mean all sorts of things, like an argument they had in a car, or Sally once taking the family car without permission, or Sally having taken out a car loan against Marion's advice/knowledge, or Sally refusing Marion a lift somewhere. It doesn't help convince me that that was Marion.

I'm also wondering whether the bank's phone call was to an already established contact number or was given by Marion (or not-Marion) at a visit after the overseas trip.

 

[sunnynz]

I just re-read the NCAT decision and I think it says that the police investigation into Marions disappearance isn't active. So she very well may have contacted them to say she is alive and well, and they just can't tell Sally. Which is maybe why a coronial inquest has never been held? Because they know she is alive.

My understanding from listening to sally on the latest episode is that when she met with the police they were very actively pursuing marions case as a homicide case. Leaving no stone unturned etc. the police wouldn’t say that to sally if they knew she was alive IMO.

 

[Sparkles5777]

My understanding from listening to sally on the latest episode is that when she met with the police they were very actively pursuing marions case as a homicide case. Leaving no stone unturned etc. the police wouldn’t say that to sally if they knew she was alive IMO.

Ahhh thanks for that. I actually stopped listening to the podcast after the Remakel episode because it frustrated me so much.

 

[Kelliepat]

Completely agree, you dont have to read very hard between the lines of the NCAT decision to see she would have been given a lot more information if the podcast wasn't involved.
A recent post speculated about the lack of family involvement in her trip to the UK, no farewell party, dinner, no airport good byes or any excitment or knowledge of her travel plans. Made her own way to the airport etc by bus . No one seems to have even bothered to ask which airline she was flying on seems ia vauge thought it was JAL .
While i know she didn't want a ride to the airport, can you imagine allowing your mum to go overseas for a year without going to the airport to wave good bye.

Maybe if the police had of carried out a thorough investigation in the first place and actually supported Sally, she wouldn't have had to go down the podcast track! This has been her world for 23years, mostly alone.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I wonder then if the sealing of a deed poll for 100 years would include whether a deed poll even exists.

For example, census is sealed for 100 years yet you can still search the presence of a name in a census search, without seeing the full details of the census itself. So I wonder, since the problem seems to be that nobody can decide if she is alive or dead is impacting on the release of information to protect her privacy. Could the police even rule out a name change by florabella, by requesting to find out if the florabella remakel name changed again without actually requesting what the name was changed to?

Because if they found she had changed her name again that would surely further the argument that Marion could still be alive and her privacy should be protected. When does the absence of any records to do with florabella for say 7 years... didn't they say no tax returns either warrant a full investigation and release of information to the police at least, to determine if somene is alive or dead?

It begs the question that if they want to protect her privacy, they know something Sally doesn't.. yet it is not enough to be able to say Sally your mother is not a missing person and aside of that we cannot tell you any more.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Oh and happy Hogmanay and New year to all fellow sleuthers.. and to those Australians already in 2020.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Did everything start to go a little haywire for Marion after she won the State teacher award of excellence and placed second nationally ... h'mm, wondering if she was scouted out then by someone looking to use her teaching skills somewhere, as in scientology, cult, etc ..... who attended the awards; there may be a link there. Do we know the exact date of the national awards? Was it publicised anywhere and who was in attendance; there could be something to it. Just a thought for today while munching on toast ....

Oh and happy Hogmanay and New year to all fellow sleuthers.. and to those Australians already in 2020.

Err, I had to Google Hogmanay ..... great word!! Love it. Happy New Year. Ah, you're from Scotland Sophie-Renee, I was thinking you were over in France, going by the name .... there ya go, as the Good Cop says "assume nothing" .....

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Ah, found date, National Awards 16 March 1996 at the Adelaide Hilton. South Australia, that's interesting ....
NEiTA Awards

 

[bje111]

Maybe if the police had of carried out a thorough investigation in the first place and actually supported Sally, she wouldn't have had to go down the podcast track! This has been her world for 23years, mostly alone.

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KiwiNZ]

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the point at which this all went wrong was the police not sighting Marion to confirm identity, however even if they had I don’t think Sally would have been satisfy all these years later, because it does not change the situation now, she could have still be killed after they identified her and they would not have been able to give her any answers, in fact their door would be firmly shut, the only reason they are assisting now is that they have not sighted her themselves, so it’s likley worked in Sally’s favour.. To be clear I wouldn’t of been satisfied either if that was my mother I would still be searching.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Here's my 2 cents.

Marion meets "F Remakel" in Australia or corresponds with him in Europe. She falls for a marriage scam and follows whatever crazy instructions he gives her. Maybe they travel to England together for him to seduce her to his plan. Maybe she meets him there. Then she or they travel back to Australia to retrieve all Marion's money. The idea being they'll head off to Luxembourg, or so she thinks. BUT "F Remakel" kills Marion and takes her money. He buries her in the place the tipster named. That seems the simplest scenario to me. It's based on the Cult Expert and the Abused Women Expert talking about how these things come about. It's also based on the the tipster calling in about the burial before the case is widely known. I also think the FB tipster is curious-- the one who knew the name Marion was using before it was widely known. (He said she was in Luxembourg.) As for the anger about the car, that sounds to me like a fake Marion using something to "prove" she is the real one. "F Remakel" could have had a woman accomplice. They could have set out to swindle Marion only, but then things got ugly. Am I too simplistic?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Maybe "F Remakel" even thought that he could take Marion's money in England from the Barclays Bank account she set up. An easy scam. But then Marion shows up with the changed name passport, and the scam's foiled. "F Remakel" has to send Marion back to Australia to get the money. Smart women fall prey all the time. Anyone of us can name situations where this has happened. My mother had horrible boyfriends and even married one or two. I could easily imagine my mother doing something like this. (In fact, she did give bad men lots of money.) But I could not imagine my mother walking away from her children and family forever.

 

[bje111]

Here's my 2 cents.

Marion meets "F Remakel" in Australia or corresponds with him in Europe. She falls for a marriage scam and follows whatever crazy instructions he gives her. Maybe they travel to England together for him to seduce her to his plan. Maybe she meets him there. Then she or they travel back to Australia to retrieve all Marion's money. The idea being they'll head off to Luxembourg. BUT "F Remakel" kills Marion and takes her money. He buries her in the place the tipster named. That seems the simplest scenario to me. It's based on the Cult Expert and the Abused Women Expert talking about how these things come about. It's also based on the the tipster calling in about the burial before the case is widely known. I also think the FB tipster is curious-- the one who knew the name Marion was using before it was widely known. (He said she was in Luxembourg.) As for the anger about the car, that sounds to me like a fake Marion using something to "prove" she is the real one. "F Remakel" could have had a woman accomplice. They could have set out to swindle Marion only, but then things got ugly. Am I too simplistic?

Not too simplistic at all. This sounds absolutely plausible to me. I'm sure (hope) the Police view her disappearance to be much the same and I'm sure (hope) they are looking into all aspects with their fine toothed combs. Love or hate the podcast, if it wasn't for that, Sally's search wouldn't have got this far.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Love or hate the podcast, if it wasn't for that, Sally's search wouldn't have got this far.

I agree 100 %. There is a reason why the majority of true crime podcasts involve murdered and missing women. For far too long, crimes against women have been devalued and ignored by police departments. Around the world! Sally doesn't just want answers. She wants justice, which means that her concerns and her mother's life be met with facts and professional attention.

 

[bje111]

I agree 100 %. There is a reason why the majority of true crime podcasts involve murdered and missing women. For far too long, crimes against women have been devalued and ignored by police departments. Around the world! Sally doesn't just want answers. She wants justice, which means that her concerns and her mother's life be met with facts and professional attention.

So true Mrs Emma Peel!!!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I was just thinking about Hogmanay.
When I was a child, we had a "tall dark" man used to knock on the door just after the clock struck midnight on New Years Eve.
We weren't Scottish but have since found out that we most likely do have Scottish connections.


Sorry got the quoting wrong and missed who posted it
"Err, I had to Google Hogmanay ..... great word!! Love it. Happy New Year. Ah, you're from Scotland Sophie-Renee, I was thinking you were over in France, going by the name .... there ya go, as the Good Cop says "assume nothing" .....[/QUOTE]"

 

[Garyb]

Maybe if the police had of carried out a thorough investigation in the first place and actually supported Sally, she wouldn't have had to go down the podcast track! This has been her world for 23years, mostly alone.

I think if you look at the list of documents that NCAT did or did not allow access too you will see the police did carry out a detailed investigation by Garry Sheahan. Previously they had not because an "authorised" person i.e. the bank security officer had spoken to her and gained enough information to confirm her identity.
Dont fall for the sensationalism of the podcast.

 

[Kelliepat]

I think if you look at the list of documents that NCAT did or did not allow access too you will see the police did carry out a detailed investigation by Garry Sheahan. Previously they had not because an "authorised" person i.e. the bank security officer had spoken to her and gained enough information to confirm her identity.
Dont fall for the sensationalism of the podcast.

*supposedly spoke to Marion .

Please don't insult my intelligence.

 

[Sparkles5777]

*supposedly spoke to Marion .

Please don't insult my intelligence.

Direct contact with a missing person by police isnt required though unfortunately. The police identified Marion (or "Marion") via an authorised third party (the bank) which is allowed and actually still is allowed to this day when people go missing. The police did do their job at the time.

It's the laws and requirements around how the police should be identifying missing people, that need to change.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Did everything start to go a little haywire for Marion after she won the State teacher award of excellence and placed second nationally ... h'mm, wondering if she was scouted out then by someone looking to use her teaching skills somewhere, as in scientology, cult, etc ..... who attended the awards; there may be a link there. Do we know the exact date of the national awards? Was it publicised anywhere and who was in attendance; there could be something to it. Just a thought for today while munching on toast ....

Err, I had to Google Hogmanay ..... great word!! Love it. Happy New Year. Ah, you're from Scotland Sophie-Renee, I was thinking you were over in France, going by the name .... there ya go, as the Good Cop says "assume nothing" .....

Thank you Well I am actually Scottish born and bred but living in England now. Sophie renee is really just my name on here. Noticed most people had nicknames so gave my sleuther name a kind of pseudonym.

Does seem a bit strange to get such an award and then just want to completely pack her whole career in the following year with such haste.