Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[SaintGertrude]

that’s a bit of a spooky coincidence![/QUOTE]

Yes it is sunnynz, Which brings me back to Tasmania Pink and green: Auroras light up night sky in Tasmania, Alaska

 

[SaintGertrude]

that’s a bit of a spooky coincidence!

Yes it is sunnynz, Which brings me back to Tasmania Pink and green: Auroras light up night sky in Tasmania, Alaska

Here is a link to the full reference of 'Florabella' in 'The American by Henry James if anyone wants to read further
Chapter XII

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think we could read anything we wanted into many things, books, poems, tv series that were on at the time and on and on.

 

[SaintGertrude]

The name Marion choose was very distinctive and as her ex boyfriend said on the podcast she must have had some kind of 'bee in her bonnet' to change to something so unusual. I believe some thought would have gone into the name change which may have included Marion's interest in literature.
Also I don't think she would have been coerced into changing her name by a fraudster as it would stand out too much as would all those daily bank transactions.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

August 1997: $5,000 had been withdrawn from Ms Barton's bank account everyday for three-and-a-half consecutive weeks in Byron Bay.
Marion Barter $250,000 reward for information on Australian mother's disappearance | Daily Mail Online

The letter sent to Marions dad described her withdrawing the balance of her account from the Colonial bank in Ashmore on Oct 15 1997.
Marion then closed the Colonial account.
The CBA bank was put on hold due to Sallys visit to Byron on 22 Oct 1997

Here is the thread from 2019 on websleuths discussing the bank transactions if that helps.
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

Thanks Gertie. Just re the 28 August 1997 telegraphic transfer note in the police book, it had the name of the Ashmore Colonial State Bank manager there. Does this mean Marion was at the Ashmore branch twice, 28 August arranging the transfer, and 15 October, withdrawing the balance of her account? Curious.

 

[Meligator]

In inquest, Betty Brown says she got info about Marion from a Sgt Trudy McKegny (sp?) who works with Queensland police (not the Byron Bay police). I wonder if there are police records in Queensland that haven't been shared.

Is it possible that by the time Sally went to the police, there had already been some red flags (with bank) in regards to Marion's transactions. Maybe the bank/Queensland police had already looked into possible fraud on her account. Perhaps "security officer" refers not to someone at the specific branch, but someone from a bank headquarter office who contacted Marion for more info?

 

[SaintGertrude]

Thanks Gertie. Just re the 28 August 1997 telegraphic transfer note in the police book, it had the name of the Ashmore Colonial State Bank manager there. Does this mean Marion was at the Ashmore branch twice, 28 August arranging the transfer, and 15 October, withdrawing the balance of her account? Curious.

I have asked someone from the Lady vanishes team for you. I think it is their bedtime now so will probably hear back later.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I have asked someone from the Lady vanishes team for you. I think it is their bedtime now so will probably hear back later.

Thanks SaintGertrude, that's really nice of you to do that .... look forward to hearing what the answer is

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Current fascination is with Sukyo Mahikari. Could Marion have met up with someone connected with them and believed her eye melanoma could be cured?
Let's see, they had headquarters in Takayama, Gifu Prefecture, Japan. We don't know how long Marion was in Japan, do we?
They also had a headquarters in Luxembourg. The castle of Ansembourg, seat of the Sukyo Mahikari Community.
Maybe the mystery man was originally from Japan. And here's a link re discussions in Australia in 1997 re Weston Creek establishment.
Sukyo Mahakari - Weston Creek Community Council
Need to see if there's any links to Southport, or the Art's Centre. End of spontaneous random Mahikari thoughts.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Thanks SaintGertrude, that's really nice of you to do that .... look forward to hearing what the answer is

I have had a reply but this is the only information available Itsapuzzle as transaction records no longer exist. There is the one of Aug 97 from the police notebook. The source of the Oct 97 withdrawal is from the Sal Army letter sent to Marion's Father.
Banking-: Episode 20, The Inquest, Part 1. Graham Smith, CBA speaks @ 19:02 David Martin, Col State Bank speaks @ 22:41 Followed by Betty Brown from the Sal Army.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Current fascination is with Sukyo Mahikari. Could Marion have met up with someone connected with them and believed her eye melanoma could be cured?
Let's see, they had headquarters in Takayama, Gifu Prefecture, Japan. We don't know how long Marion was in Japan, do we?
They also had a headquarters in Luxembourg. The castle of Ansembourg, seat of the Sukyo Mahikari Community.
Maybe the mystery man was originally from Japan. And here's a link re discussions in Australia in 1997 re Weston Creek establishment.
Sukyo Mahakari - Weston Creek Community Council
Need to see if there's any links to Southport, or the Art's Centre. End of spontaneous random Mahikari thoughts.

I hadn't heard of that group before but have found this The Time I Almost Joined a Japanese Cult
There is also a website formed by ex members which can be found via the above link. Maybe you could ask some of them about any Australian connections. Good luck with your sleuthing

 

[SaintGertrude]

I hadn't heard of that group before but have found this The Time I Almost Joined a Japanese Cult
There is a website formed by ex members which can be found via the above link. Maybe you could ask some of them about any Australian connections. Good luck with your sleuthing

An interesting quote from one of the ex members from Canberra, Australia "I also saw quite a lot of the process involved in creating the Mahikari Australia and Asia Journal"
Also the Sunday Times article quoted from 1998 is a good read.
Mahikari Exposed - The Sunday Times

 

[SaintGertrude]

I have just been listening to the inquest part of the podcast again and feel less hopeful that Marion will be found alive. The police quote with the $250,000 dollar reward mentioned makes it clear that foul play may be suspected. The big question is was it Marion who came back or an imposter. My view is it was her who returned as she went to the Optromonist with her eye condition which apart from cancelling car insurance is one of the last records of proof of life. Saying this there is no evidence as yet of foul play either which makes this an extraordinary case.

 

[JLZ]

I have just been listening to the inquest part of the podcast again and feel less hopeful that Marion will be found alive. The police quote with the $250,000 dollar reward mentioned makes it clear that foul play may be suspected. The big question is was it Marion who came back or an imposter. My view is it was her who returned as she went to the Optromonist with her eye condition which apart from cancelling car insurance is one of the last records of proof of life. Saying this there is no evidence as yet of foul play either which makes this an extraordinary case.

But there's no record of the reason for the optometrist's client's attendance? An optometrist prescribes and dispenses corrective eyewear; is not an eye doctor. Lots of people go to the optometrist.

 

[SaintGertrude]

But there's no record of the reason for the optometrist's client's attendance? An optometrist prescribes and dispenses corrective eyewear; is not an eye doctor. Lots of people go to the optometrist.

Thanks for filling me in and explaining

 

[SaintGertrude]

Here is the quote from the police taken from the podcast about the $250,000 reward money:-

"NSW Government government has given NSW police force announced a $250,000 dollar reward in relation to the 1997 disappearance of Marion Barter.
This has been treated as a suspicious disappearance and is being investigated by the unsolved homicide team.
We are keen not only to provide answers to the family but to provide a full comprehensive reference for the coroner.
We still cannot explain how someone can just disappear of the face of the earth from 1997 and it is out of character only for the fact that she hasn't been in contact with the family.
Over the last two years especially it has been a really professional protracted complex investigation and I would like to commend the investigators for the amount of work they have actually done in completing an exhaustive amount of enquiries and a large volume of work has been done. That is going to be presented to the coroner.
Those enquiries haven't finished and are still going and that is why it is important and why the reward is important.
I think there are people who have some answers out there and may be able to fill in the missing links and there are people who may have seen Marion Barter and may know what happened"

 

[SaintGertrude]

Looking at the homicide angle what could have been the motive

Here are a few ideas of my own although I am still swayed both ways into thinking alternatively she may have started a new life and further changed her name to go undetected.

a) Marion is a victim of fraud and is coerced by someone posing as a potential partner then murdered.
b) Marion starts a new relationship with someone and gets into a physical fight which leads to manslaughter.
c) There are some allegations of abuse at a certain school and Marion is a whistleblower. She is silence by someone who does not want the truth to come out about something which has happened there.
d) Marion is desperate to find a new husband but comes across the wrong type of person. He may have murdered women in the past and Marion is not aware of his background.
e) Marion has some kind of terminal health diagnosis and asks someone to assist either legally or illegally (or both) with her death. For example someone gets Marion out of the country on a fake passport to a country where assisted suicide is allowed. Only four countries approve of assisted dying as a whole: Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Question and . . . .

1. Is it possible Marion's sister(s) and mother knew/know what happened and aren't talking? Out of embarassment, shame, or just that thing that keeps family secrets, secret. Were they ever pointblank asked if they knew where Marion had gone? They are so odd, in general, and about their sister.

2. The reasons I can think of why a mother would miss her daughter's wedding and son's funeral: a) she doesn't care about them b) she is dead c) she is ashamed d) she is insane or demented. e) she's held captive f) she is oblivious ie faraway, which leads back to (a).

 

[SaintGertrude]

Question and . . . .

1. Is it possible Marion's sister(s) and mother knew/know what happened and aren't talking? Out of embarassment, shame, or just that thing that keeps family secrets, secret. Were they ever pointblank asked if they knew where Marion had gone? They are so odd, in general, and about their sister.

2. The reasons I can think of why a mother would miss her daughter's wedding and son's funeral: a) she doesn't care about them b) she is dead c) she is ashamed d) she is insane or demented. e) she's held captive f) she is oblivious ie faraway, which leads back to (a).

I agree that point a) Deception by fraud then murder is a very strong possibility.
Marion's trips to Kent and Sussex may have had something to do with what happened next. Her sudden departure back to Australia is very strange if it was her who came back in the first place.
On the other hand did Marion even come to the UK. There is no proof apart from the postcards which she could have been coerced to write and then posted by someone else. Her passport entering and leaving the UK could have been used by an unknown female with similar features as Marion or even a male posing as a female. (My imagination is running wild)
I hope that the passenger cards are looked at in more detail as I think it is important to see who Marion was sitting next too on both flights.
I would like to think Marion is alive and started a new life somewhere but think that in light of this being a homicide investigation the facts need to be faced and discussed as well as all the other wonderful places like Luxembourg, Tasmania or the pine forest towns where she could be hiding out at

 

[JLZ]

Thanks for filling me in and explaining

The big question is was it Marion who came back or an imposter. My view is it was her who returned as she went to the Optromonist with her eye condition which apart from cancelling car insurance is one of the last records of proof of life.

You said your main reason for thinking it was Marion who returned to Australia and not an imposter was that the person attended an optometrist "with her eye condition". So correct me if I've missed it, which is entirely possible, but as far as I know there's no evidence of the attendee who was billed as Marion having the same eye condition as Marion or any mildly unusual condition. So once you've raised the possibility of an imposter having returned on Marion's passport, how is the appearance of an item on Marion's Medicare account the most persuasive evidence that it was Marion and not an imposter who returned--or proof that Marion was at that time alive?