Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[Itsapuzzle]

is anyone else thinking there were 2 phone calls too Marion by the police / bank ? ( if we believe what we are told at the inquest)

1. when Sally originally contacted the police
2. when Sally's Grandfather contacted the SA, as the information about the car is added but not mentioned by Sally in the original call.

It's all so strange, the mention of the car .... I'm still at a loss as to how they contacted Marion to even hear about the car after she'd finished all her banking in October. I really have no idea how they contacted her.

 

[KiwiNZ]

It's all so strange, the mention of the car .... I'm still at a loss as to how they contacted Marion to even hear about the car after she'd finished all her banking in October. I really have no idea how they contacted her.

My thinking is - she didn't close her accounts and there was still money in there, so did she changed the address and contact details, and maybe she had done this before she left (?) no-one seemed to be getting post from the bank ? if the bank doesn't have a phone number for you to call you, and they think fraud is happening on your account they simple put a hold on your account and that means you have to contact them to resolve the issue to access your money.

Maybe she left the account open waiting for the car money ? to check her account she would need to use the money machine or the teller, either way, they can speak to her if they have a hold on the account

Also at the time if the money was transferred and not cash out of the bank they could have traced her that way.

I find the below the oddest statement from her sister ... is this why she didn't close her bank account or cut off her old life completely at this point prior to October

I still believe that she left herself a way to come back
and I always felt that she would except for the fact that dad and sally went down the
missing person route.

My friend works for Westpac bank fraud team, he said the physical bank where the money was withdrawn from (tellers, manager) would not have been responsible for chasing down the lead or identifying the person, that would have sat with the banks head office and fraud team. Locating people through their purchases and use of their CC and money machine cards is also used. Putting holds on the account draws people out and forces them to make contact

 

[KiwiNZ]

I should also add to the above when I describe the situation to my friend whom works for An Australian Bank in their fraud team he said -

Locating people overseas is not an usual request when family loss contact and there are concerns for safety, this request comes via the police, to do a trace on bank card usage etc.. to help trace them.

The situation I describe he said was unremarkable on the face of it, fraudulent activity was reported on the account, it turned out to be the owner of the account doing the transactions. It would seem it was a domestic issue and of no concern or interest to the bank to resolve a domestic issue. They only care that the person owns the account they are using.

 

[Meligator]

H'mm, I could be wrong Meligator, but I think Marion just withdrew the balance of the money from Ashmore, I don't remember a mention of it being closed ... accounts were closed years later due to fees accumulating and inactivity. Today I'm gonna type up what I can find on bank info and put it together ... been a bit lazy, was going to do that a few weeks back ... will pop it up here later.

Oh gosh, this bank stuff has me most confused. I think it was the salvo letter that mentioned an account being closed, although I can't find a copy of the letter at the moment.

It's all so strange, the mention of the car .... I'm still at a loss as to how they contacted Marion to even hear about the car after she'd finished all her banking in October. I really have no idea how they contacted her.

I've said this before, but I think the statement about the car may have come from Marion's mother. Betty Brown from the salvation army said thats not something they would tell a family, and she has no reason to lie about that. Diedre said her mom's statements about other things should be taken not as fact, but as a effort to place blame of Marion leaving on something else. To me the car statement sounds like something her mom might have said even as a hypothetical -- but believed by others as a fact. It also seems like Marion's mom was really focused on Marion having issues with Sally & the car issue was maybe on her mind since is something Sally consulted her grandfather about what she should do with the car....

 

[Meligator]

is anyone else thinking there were 2 phone calls too Marion by the police / bank ? ( if we believe what we are told at the inquest)

1. when Sally originally contacted the police
2. when Sally's Grandfather contacted the SA, as the information about the car is added but not mentioned by Sally in the original call.

Either multiple conversations with Marion OR multiple conversations with someone at the bank who recalled a conversation with Marion....OR possibly the police kept more detailed info Marion's case at the time (and were able to share with Salvo), but those records no longer exist. It's possible the car story could have been known (to bank/police) all along--but just not shared with family until Salvo contact.

 

[JLZ]

I wonder if the Medicare record was a mistake. In those days the card was swiped and a carbon copy sent to the agency which then typed it into the database. Or sometimes the claim forms were handwritten. It could be difficult to read the carbon figures and the handwriting; or the number and name it looked like didn't match a person on the database. So then the data-entry person would bring up on the computer close matches, and select who they thought it was. So the health care provider would ring up and say something like, we didn't get paid for this person, but we did get paid for some other person we've never met. But, there might be times when the health care provider didn't bother.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

You would think a bank statement for June would have been redirected to Lesley's address and given to Sally .... if it was, that could hold the key to all Marion's holiday plans, as in, payment to the storage facility, travel agent, etc, it would all be there..... back in the day you'd get an itemised account sent out to you showing all your monthly transactions. Did Colonial State Bank do this? Or maybe Marion did all her transactions for travel in the month of May and had that statement delivered to her Merinda address. Would be interested to know. I really thought these bank statements would be accessible and would produce a lot of leads. And the phone statements, they were itemised too and sent out. What secrets would they reveal!

 

[KiwiNZ]

You would think a bank statement for June would have been redirected to Lesley's address and given to Sally .... if it was, that could hold the key to all Marion's holiday plans, as in, payment to the storage facility, travel agent, etc, it would all be there..... back in the day you'd get an itemised account sent out to you showing all your monthly transactions. Did Colonial State Bank do this? Or maybe Marion did all her transactions for travel in the month of May and had that statement delivered to her Merinda address. Would be interested to know. I really thought these bank statements would be accessible and would produce a lot of leads. And the phone statements, they were itemised too and sent out. What secrets would they reveal!

The post thing is another mystery, why redirect your post to a friends house whom your only staying with for a few weeks ? and not your daughter.

The phone statements was so obvious, I mean you could even call the phone company and get them to look up past calls going quite far back, and as you say they were itemized on your statement, why wouldn't have Sally called the phone company and asked what country the call came from ? it was only a few months later. That could have helped her at the time prove her mother was in the UK and not in Byron Bay removing money (as she thought at the time)

Oh you mean Marion's phone records ... yes that would have been VERY interesting

in 1997 in the UK she would have to be using her credit card ( did she have one ?) or travelers checks, you couldn't use your bank card in stores at that time, they had a thing called swift(?) but it wasn't widely used.

 

[Tintenbar]

i agree with the fact that Marion's mother knowingly disseminated information intended to deceive everyone. Moreover Bronwyn says it in her testimony and tells that she did not want Marion to confide her secrets to her for fear that her mother would seize them and start to dramatize.

 

[Meligator]

You would think a bank statement for June would have been redirected to Lesley's address and given to Sally .... if it was, that could hold the key to all Marion's holiday plans, as in, payment to the storage facility, travel agent, etc, it would all be there..... back in the day you'd get an itemised account sent out to you showing all your monthly transactions. Did Colonial State Bank do this? Or maybe Marion did all her transactions for travel in the month of May and had that statement delivered to her Merinda address. Would be interested to know. I really thought these bank statements would be accessible and would produce a lot of leads. And the phone statements, they were itemised too and sent out. What secrets would they reveal!

The inquest makes reference to Barkley’s UK account serving as a forwarding address—could statements have been going there?

 

[KiwiNZ]

The inquest makes reference to Barkley’s UK account serving as a forwarding address—could statements have been going there?

I could be wrong but I thought that was only for the money she transferred for her trip.

I am pretty sure there was a heap of information said at the inquest that hasn't been included in the podcast that would probably shed some more light. They must have asked more probing questions than what we herd.

I assume at some stage a transcript of the inquest will be available ? but possible not until they come to a conclusion ? anyone know how that works ?

 

[Meligator]

And it must be so hard for Sally to have the whole case file and not be able to share. I hope she has answers to some of what we don’t.

 

[JLZ]

I could be wrong but I thought that was only for the money she transferred for her trip.

I am pretty sure there was a heap of information said at the inquest that hasn't been included in the podcast that would probably shed some more light. They must have asked more probing questions than what we herd.

I assume at some stage a transcript of the inquest will be available ? but possible not until they come to a conclusion ? anyone know how that works ?

Transcripts are not usually publicly available--they can be purchased but remain subject to copyright. The coroner's decision document however is often long and detailed.
Transcripts

 

[KiwiNZ]

Transcripts are not usually publicly available--they can be purchased but remain subject to copyright. The coroner's decision document however is often long and detailed.
Transcripts

Thanks JLZ - that must be what I have seen on the NSW corners website the decision document, not a transcript. Thanks for clarifying that

 

[Itsapuzzle]

The notes in the police book about a telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August is pretty interesting isn't it. That's not something a police member would make up in his notes. The notes included the name of the bank manager at Colonial State Bank in Ashmore, so they had the right bank back then and the right branch manager's name. The 28th would coincide with the end of the $5000 a day withdrawals over a three week period. What was Marion doing with these withdrawals .... taking them "home" and putting them in a biscuit tin till the 28th? And why transfer money overseas if your passport never leaves the country again? That's definitely sus. Unless Marion was joining something where you had to send your money to the leader/company overseas, a cult, group/business venture thing. Then we have Marion at the Ashmore branch on October 15 taking out the balance of the account - so she hasn't met with foul play then, nearly a month and a half later.

 

[sunnynz]

The notes in the police book about a telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August is pretty interesting isn't it. That's not something a police member would make up in his notes. The notes included the name of the bank manager at Colonial State Bank in Ashmore, so they had the right bank back then and the right branch manager's name. The 28th would coincide with the end of the $5000 a day withdrawals over a three week period. What was Marion doing with these withdrawals .... taking them "home" and putting them in a biscuit tin till the 28th? And why transfer money overseas if your passport never leaves the country again? That's definitely sus. Unless Marion was joining something where you had to send your money to the leader/company overseas, a cult, group/business venture thing. Then we have Marion at the Ashmore branch on October 15 taking out the balance of the account - so she hasn't met with foul play then, nearly a month and a half later.

Yes sending money to something like a cult, or to a love interest who she planned to meet up with later but never got the chance. Or maybe she left Australia by other means - different passport name we’re not aware of or by other means of transport or via somewhere she didn’t need a passport for.

 

[KiwiNZ]

The notes in the police book about a telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August is pretty interesting isn't it. That's not something a police member would make up in his notes. The notes included the name of the bank manager at Colonial State Bank in Ashmore, so they had the right bank back then and the right branch manager's name. The 28th would coincide with the end of the $5000 a day withdrawals over a three week period. What was Marion doing with these withdrawals .... taking them "home" and putting them in a biscuit tin till the 28th? And why transfer money overseas if your passport never leaves the country again? That's definitely sus. Unless Marion was joining something where you had to send your money to the leader/company overseas, a cult, group/business venture thing. Then we have Marion at the Ashmore branch on October 15 taking out the balance of the account - so she hasn't met with foul play then, nearly a month and a half later.

I will have to read it again, I missed that about the "telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August " !

And taking such a risk to go to the Ashmore branch were see could have been seen by someone she knew, all mind boggling stuff.

I cant think why someone with murder in mind would even risk having Marion in places she could be recognised and threaten the plan ?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I missed it too!

I will have to read it again, I missed that about the "telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August " !

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I will have to read it again, I missed that about the "telegraphic transfer of money overseas on 28 August " !

And taking such a risk to go to the Ashmore branch were see could have been seen by someone she knew, all mind boggling stuff.

I cant think why someone with murder in mind would even risk having Marion in places she could be recognised and threaten the plan ?

I missed it too!

I totally missed it too at the time, must have been obsessing about something else. The telegraphic transfer is mentioned in Episode 21, Inquest Part 2 at 4.45, "There were notes about a telegraphic transfer to an overseas bank on August 28." It was in the duty book notes from back in 1997 I believe.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Yes sending money to something like a cult, or to a love interest who she planned to meet up with later but never got the chance. Or maybe she left Australia by other means - different passport name we’re not aware of or by other means of transport or via somewhere she didn’t need a passport for.

H'mm, good point sunnynz, she may still have left the country on another passport - or yes, maybe travelled to a nearby island that didn't require a passport.