Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[SheMantis]

Wouldn't the tickets have to match the passport if you are entering another country?

100% yes they would

 

[margarita25]

This is an intriguing case which is just starting to gain some traction due to her daughter's relentless efforts.

Here is the facebook page:

Missing Person Marion Barter

...and a just released podcast 'The Lady Vanishes'

Left Behind | The Lady Vanishes on acast

(Linking this thread over in the UK Forum as well:

United Kingdom Crime Cases - Links to cases on Websleuths *No Discussion* )

 

[Mel 1303]

In episode one, Marion's resignation letter to TSS was discussed.

It was written on 16 June 1997, advising of final day on 20 June 1997. The letter concludes with “I would like to renew my registration for 1998 in advance and advise you of my forwarding address for future renewal should I need to.”

Do we know what the forwarding address was?

I cant find the school holiday dates for QLD in 1997. The earliest I can find at the moment are 1999. In 1999, schools broke up in QLD on 19 June. In 1997, Marion gave notice from the Friday, 20 June. 4 days notice seems very abrupt, but I am pretty certain it was going into holidays. In which case it was closer to three weeks notice, at least from the point of finding a replacement teacher. http://www.downunder.dk/downunder/facts/holyaus.htm

 

[Garyb]

Interesting request from Brian Seymour asking for someone to contact him about an anonymous tip in German. See the Lady vanishes facebook page

 

[Mel 1303]

Interesting request from Brian Seymour asking for someone to contact him about an anonymous tip in German. See the Lady vanishes facebook page

It is interesting. Of more interest to me was the adjoining post, with the picture of Marion and her colleague receiving surprise Excellence in teaching awards at the Prep Assembly at TSS. Is this the award we have heard so much about? If so, it answers at least one question. Why didn't M invite S to the ceremony? Because there wasn't one. It was school assembly. Taking nothing away from Marion's teaching successes, but a school based award for something like education week is a little different to an excellence in teaching award from across the state. Maybe there were two awards? I will keep trying to find record of the qld one, but so far I am drawing a blank.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

In episode one, Marion's resignation letter to TSS was discussed.

It was written on 16 June 1997, advising of final day on 20 June 1997. The letter concludes with “I would like to renew my registration for 1998 in advance and advise you of my forwarding address for future renewal should I need to.”

Do we know what the forwarding address was?

I cant find the school holiday dates for QLD in 1997. The earliest I can find at the moment are 1999. In 1999, schools broke up in QLD on 19 June. In 1997, Marion gave notice from the Friday, 20 June. 4 days notice seems very abrupt, but I am pretty certain it was going into holidays. In which case it was closer to three weeks notice, at least from the point of finding a replacement teacher. http://www.downunder.dk/downunder/facts/holyaus.htm

Yes it makes sense it was the last week of term she resigned. Still a very short timeframe - i dont understand why she didnt give notice in April when she sold the house??

The podcast presents the house sale and the UK trip as being linked, the house being sold to finance Marions UK adventure. It appears she was openly talking about the UK trip so why didnt she give notice in April when her house sold - why wait until a week before she left? I wonder if Marion applied for extended leave/sabbatical from TSS and they declined her which left her in a position where she had to resign. The ex-boyfriend thought Marion was being petty over whatever problems she had at TSS so I guess the delay could also have been Marion timing it to make things difficult for TSS.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

It is interesting. Of more interest to me was the adjoining post, with the picture of Marion and her colleague receiving surprise Excellence in teaching awards at the Prep Assembly at TSS. Is this the award we have heard so much about? If so, it answers at least one question. Why didn't M invite S to the ceremony? Because there wasn't one. It was school assembly. Taking nothing away from Marion's teaching successes, but a school based award for something like education week is a little different to an excellence in teaching award from across the state. Maybe there were two awards? I will keep trying to find record of the qld one, but so far I am drawing a blank.

That would answer a few questions if that's the case. The podcast isnt doing the greatest job of checking their facts - they should hire you as their researcher Mel1303!

 

[Mel 1303]

That would answer a few questions if that's the case. The podcast isnt doing the greatest job of checking their facts - they should hire you as their researcher Mel1303!

Hahaha! It may be the case that there was more than one award, and I cant find the other simply due to the passage of time. It may be that Sally has misremembered some of the finer details- again, its been a long time- or possibly even that Marion overstated the scope of the award.

 

[Mel 1303]

Yes it makes sense it was the last week of term she resigned. Still a very short timeframe - i dont understand why she didnt give notice in April when she sold the house??

The podcast presents the house sale and the UK trip as being linked, the house being sold to finance Marions UK adventure. It appears she was openly talking about the UK trip so why didnt she give notice in April when her house sold - why wait until a week before she left? I wonder if Marion applied for extended leave/sabbatical from TSS and they declined her which left her in a position where she had to resign. The ex-boyfriend thought Marion was being petty over whatever problems she had at TSS so I guess the delay could also have been Marion timing it to make things difficult for TSS.

You may be right- she may have intended to have her break, then return, only for things to change. Or maybe she had given verbal notice, but put in the formal written notice to ensure the school had the forwarding address for her to renew her teaching registration.

 

[Mel 1303]

In the 90's when I was in school, it use to really bug me that the private school kids up the road go an extra week of holiday each holiday period. I don't know if that was the case at the time at TSS, but looking at their calendar now, the mid year break is at least 3 weeks long. If it was so at the time, Marion would be giving closer to four weeks notice. If, as it certainly sounds, she was super stressed, maybe she gave the least amount of notice possible to the school, to minimise how much backlash she may need to face?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Monday afternoon hypotheticals .... if Marion chose to vanish the mystery of the untouched superannuation money could simply be that she wanted to leave it to her children and had no intention of ever touching it. The new will may mention it.
And the mystery of that postcard arriving at end of August hasn't been cleared up yet, has it .... wonder if a letter from Marion was supposed to be posted with it, but never made it to its destination?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

In episode one, Marion's resignation letter to TSS was discussed.

It was written on 16 June 1997, advising of final day on 20 June 1997. The letter concludes with “I would like to renew my registration for 1998 in advance and advise you of my forwarding address for future renewal should I need to.”

Do we know what the forwarding address was?

I cant find the school holiday dates for QLD in 1997. The earliest I can find at the moment are 1999. In 1999, schools broke up in QLD on 19 June. In 1997, Marion gave notice from the Friday, 20 June. 4 days notice seems very abrupt, but I am pretty certain it was going into holidays. In which case it was closer to three weeks notice, at least from the point of finding a replacement teacher. http://www.downunder.dk/downunder/facts/holyaus.htm

The forwarding address was Lesley's for the registration renewal. Ah, that's interesting, the 4 days leading into holidays, hadn't thought of that, good point Mel1303. I wonder if there's a photo in the newsletter of TSS of Marion's farewell, there probably would be, be interesting to see that.

 

[Garyb]

Can someone remind me about the sale of the car?
Who contacted Sally to say Marion was angry she had not sold the car.
I think this was some time after she went missing.

 

[poppypopcorn]

On the passport thing - Marion could indeed have obtained a UK passport as the spouse of a UK national. But not right away. You have to go through the whole rigmarole of applying for citizenship first. It's not easy, it takes years (at least three from the date of marriage) and costs £££££. There's no way she could have left Australia in June, married, got a UK passport and been back to Australia in the same year. Most other European countries have similar three years living as a spouse in the country rules.

UK marriage records are publicly available. Sites like Ancestry have them up to 2005. But of course you have to know what name you're searching under and I'm sure they'll have searched already under all names Marion used. If she changed her name a second time and married under some other identity, there's no way of tracking her down.

Just saw that there's a new episode under production, maybe there will be more answers soon.

 

[Mel 1303]

Can someone remind me about the sale of the car?
Who contacted Sally to say Marion was angry she had not sold the car.
I think this was some time after she went missing.

According to the information received by Marion’s dad from the salvos, it was bank security at the Colonial bank in Ashmore, which had been Marion’s local branch. Her home which she sold, as well as Lesley’s home, were in Ashmore. She apparently told the bank security to tell them to stop looking in Byron Bay, and to tell Sally she is cranky about the car.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Can someone remind me about the sale of the car?
Who contacted Sally to say Marion was angry she had not sold the car.
I think this was some time after she went missing.

Episode 4, Taken, at 11.11 .... Marion's sister Deidre talking about the Salvation Army:
"They told my father that Marion was angry at Sally because she had an agreement with Sally that she would sell the car and put that money in Marion's account, and Marion was angry at Sally because she was expecting that money to go in and it hadn't gone in, so my father decided, well Marion would be the only one who knew about that."
There was speculation that this could have been a case of misunderstanding due to Marion's father's illness at the time, something lost in translation perhaps. What we heard in the podcast was that Sally was going to sell her car and pop the money into Marion's account when sold, there was no rush to do so, just whenever. The money was never put into Marion's account. The word "angry" is peculiar!
PS: Whoops, beat me to it Mel, I was a bit slow with my typing and things, just saw you answered garyb

 

[Mel 1303]

As far as the superannuation goes...…

Marion seems a very private person. Seems as though she was struggling to get the privacy she wanted. She wanted Chris to leave before her guest arrived, but she was "busted" anyway at the servo. When questioned as to who he was, she was evasive. She was staying with Lesley, but made an excuse to have a night away- and again, was busted. She told no one about the name change, or the new passport. She didn't want someone with her at the airport- I suspect because she was worried someone would hear the new name. There are lots of examples of her private nature. When she went overseas, she seemingly returns to change her financial arrangements, to what we don't know. She came back in, under a different name, went to the bank, only taking out the standard limit each day. She isn't transferring to another account- reducing the footprint, and she still gets busted. If she touches that super, her new life is revealed.

I am not blaming anyone for the fact that she kept being caught out- but I can see how, if she was desperate for some time out, that she might have arrived at the point where it is all or nothing. Give up, or move on to a new life.

 

[Mel 1303]

Episode 4, Taken, at 11.11 .... Marion's sister Deidre talking about the Salvation Army:
"They told my father that Marion was angry at Sally because she had an agreement with Sally that she would sell the car and put that money in Marion's account, and Marion was angry at Sally because she was expecting that money to go in and it hadn't gone in, so my father decided, well Marion would be the only one who knew about that."
There was speculation that this could have been a case of misunderstanding due to Marion's father's illness at the time, something lost in translation perhaps. What we heard in the podcast was that Sally was going to sell her car and pop the money into Marion's account when sold, there was no rush to do so, just whenever. The money was never put into Marion's account. The word "angry" is peculiar!
PS: Whoops, beat me to it Mel, I was a bit slow with my typing and things, just saw you answered garyb

Snap!

 

[Mel 1303]

Relistening to episode 4. Sally tells of the crimestoppers tip. How Gary Sheehan went to Armidale with a dog, and handler, and they had one day to search in the rain. Yet straight after, they run the interview with Sheehan where he describes going to Armidale, identifting the address provided by the tipster, interviewing the occupants, examining the information held in the tip until he found the apparent site, where he then spent two days searching, with a dog, dog handler and a full complement of SES volunteers. These two statements were played next to each other, with neither Sally nor Garry being asked about the contradiction in information. Sally is a daughter, a mum, who is desperate to find her mum, and doing what she thinks is best. Garry is giving the info he can, without revealing information we are not entitled to. Alison and Brian are investigative journalists, with loads of experience, who don't ask basic questions? Like one day or two? SES or no SES? The inconsistencies lead to questions, and may make someone with actual information reluctant to come forward.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Just popping my two bob's worth in .... I have listened to every episode quite a few times actually, and all the conversations ... hey, I get a bit carried away with things to the point of obsession, but there it is .... at first I thought one hundred percent Marion staged her disappearance .... then I swung around to no, has met with foul play .... then swung round to wanted to start new life in new country with a new fella .... then swung to she's met with an accident overseas ... and have now swung round to I have absolutely no idea what's happened and nothing would surprise me ..... perhaps Episode 14 will provide some answers and enlighten.