Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Garyb]

Snap!

Thank you

 

[Sillybilly]

Websleuths is victim friendly.

Posts that are not victim friendly are removed ... along with ALL responses (and responses to those responses).

 

[natural sagacity]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Websleuths is victim friendly.

Posts that are not victim friendly are removed ... along with ALL responses (and responses to those responses).

maybe you could define victim as per the legal dictionary

 

[Sillybilly]

maybe you could define victim as per the legal dictionary

Or perhaps we can just continue to go by Websleuths Rules put in place by Tricia who owns this place. It's worked for Websleuths for many, many years. If you take issue with that, you can private message @Tricia and she will be glad to explain.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Spontaneous Wednesday morning thoughts ... wondering if Mr Remakel answered the questions that were emailed to him. Has he been found to have anything to do with Marion's new identity or any connection? We've heard nothing. And if his name has been cleared will he receive an apology for being put into this situation of worldwide suspicion? They did run roughshod over him .... I hope that's okay to say ... just my opinion, and I do still worry about the fallout from this for him and his family .... if he is a totally innocent party .... we've heard nothing though. End of spontaneous Wednesday Remakel thoughts.

 

[Garyb]

Spontaneous Wednesday morning thoughts ... wondering if Mr Remakel answered the questions that were emailed to him. Has he been found to have anything to do with Marion's new identity or any connection? We've heard nothing. And if his name has been cleared will he receive an apology for being put into this situation of worldwide suspicion? They did run roughshod over him .... I hope that's okay to say ... just my opinion, and I do still worry about the fallout from this for him and his family .... if he is a totally innocent party .... we've heard nothing though. End of spontaneous Wednesday Remakel thoughts.

 

[Garyb]

I think it was on her facebook page that Sally was asked this question about the detailed email rhey had agreed to send to him.
They have had no response.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I think it was on her facebook page that Sally was asked this question about the detailed email rhey had agreed to send to him.
They have had no response.

Thanks Garyb, I didn't know that. H'mm, so no response, what does that mean .... (a) angry and outraged, (b) got nothing to do with him so telling them nothin, (c) got something to hide so sayin' nothin', (d) shocking invasion of the privacy of an innocent man so he's flung the questions into the abyss, (e) too disinterested to even read email, or (f) all of the above. Cheers

 

[bje111]

In the call with Remakel first wife she says something interesting. She says his sister also Marion or Marian loved flowers and was a florist. I found this striking. Here’s a theory

Fernand Remakel and his sister or accomplice ran a scam to find foreign women and fleece them.

What is required to get a change of name and passport in 1998. Could a lover (Fernand) who got close to her and perhaps stole the wallet manage to get a name change and passport without Marion knowing. Calling this new person florrabella “flower lover”

Could they lure her overseas then commit foul play. Having the accomplice return to Aus on the florabella name to fleece money. Perhaps then on the immigration card saying she was a Luxembourg housewife was true. It wasn’t Marion at all.

Seems plausable to me!

 

[K8g]

In the call with Remakel first wife she says something interesting. She says his sister also Marion or Marian loved flowers and was a florist. I found this striking. Here’s a theory

Fernand Remakel and his sister or accomplice ran a scam to find foreign women and fleece them.

What is required to get a change of name and passport in 1998. Could a lover (Fernand) who got close to her and perhaps stole the wallet manage to get a name change and passport without Marion knowing. Calling this new person florrabella “flower lover”

Could they lure her overseas then commit foul play. Having the accomplice return to Aus on the florabella name to fleece money. Perhaps then on the immigration card saying she was a Luxembourg housewife was true. It wasn’t Marion at all.

Just recently I've come to think that this is quite a possibility.
I'm conflicted, though, because I still can't shake Hermes Far Eastern Shining involvement either.

 

[Mel 1303]

Thanks Garyb, I didn't know that. H'mm, so no response, what does that mean .... (a) angry and outraged, (b) got nothing to do with him so telling them nothin, (c) got something to hide so sayin' nothin', (d) shocking invasion of the privacy of an innocent man so he's flung the questions into the abyss, (e) too disinterested to even read email, or (f) all of the above. Cheers

It probably says more about me than anything else, but if a film crew turned up at my home, with a copy of a lonely hearts ad from a different county, placed years ago, which they say straight up that I posted (no questions, just a straight up "you posted this", then sent me an email with a series of questions and a deadline for when I must supply my answers- that would be binned so fast. He has no reason to suspect he would be afforded any privacy or sensitivity, so chances are if he does know something he will remain silent.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Episode 13 revealed Marion's strong attachment to her possessions ... the accidental breaking of her decorative plate by Greg E virtually spelt the end of their relationship (at 34.28/Ep 13) ..... the replacement of the plate later revived it for a while .... h'mm, it's just interesting to note that Marion gave away some of her loved possessions to Sally and Owen before her trip. Why? This shipping container .... was it retrieved by Marion or were the items sold off, that is the question ... sadly no answers at this point, very odd.
Did Sally tell the police about the shipping container at the time and did they investigate it?

 

[Meligator]

In the call with Remakel first wife she says something interesting. She says his sister also Marion or Marian loved flowers and was a florist. I found this striking. Here’s a theory

Fernand Remakel and his sister or accomplice ran a scam to find foreign women and fleece them.

What is required to get a change of name and passport in 1998. Could a lover (Fernand) who got close to her and perhaps stole the wallet manage to get a name change and passport without Marion knowing. Calling this new person florrabella “flower lover”

Could they lure her overseas then commit foul play. Having the accomplice return to Aus on the florabella name to fleece money. Perhaps then on the immigration card saying she was a Luxembourg housewife was true. It wasn’t Marion at all.

I think there is something to this theory....Although, I think its likely Marion was aware of the name change since she flew out using the new Florabella passport.

I wish we knew more about the stolen wallet. It was mentioned that the person who stole the wallet resembled Marion (e.g., someone who could have perhaps gotten away with using her ID to take money out of the bank)-- I wonder if that person was ever identified or apprehended.

The matching initials (Florabella Natalia Remakel & Fernand Nicolas Remakel) is a really odd coincidence--particularly with the Luxembourg housewife note. Problem is, I can't think of a good reason that changing a name to the same initials as someone else would be particularly useful in committing a scam (or hiding one's identity).

The fact that the Florabella passport never left Australia/changed name from Florabella suggests that either (1) Marion returned/stayed in Australia, (2) someone using the Florabella passport to impersonate Marion left Australia with a different passport or (3) Marion left Australia using a different (not Florabella) passport.

#3 seems kinda unlikely because I don't know how Marion would have obtained alternative citizenship/passport in such a short time abroad AND (given Sally's description) she doesn't seem like the someone who would access find herself accessing a fraudulent passport---unless (per your theory above), Marion returned (with all her money) using a borrowed passport of Fernand's sister?

 

[Meligator]

Episode 13 revealed Marion's strong attachment to her possessions ... the accidental breaking of her decorative plate by Greg E virtually spelt the end of their relationship (at 34.28/Ep 13) ..... the replacement of the plate later revived it for a while .... h'mm, it's just interesting to note that Marion gave away some of her loved possessions to Sally and Owen before her trip. Why? This shipping container .... was it retrieved by Marion or were the items sold off, that is the question ... sadly no answers at this point, very odd.
Did Sally tell the police about the shipping container at the time and did they investigate it?

I believe that the whereabouts of the shipping container are unknown. Marion told Sally that the items in the shipping container were things to be shipped over to UK if she decided to move there. Some valuables (artwork) were in the shipping container (not given away to Sally/Owen). Marion may have had other storage (where Sally retrieved the kitchen scales)--but I'm not sure was the purpose/plan for that storage and its contents.

 

[K8g]

The matching initials (Florabella Natalia Remakel & Fernand Nicolas Remakel) is a really odd coincidence--particularly with the Luxembourg housewife note. Problem is, I can't think of a good reason that changing a name to the same initials as someone else would be particularly useful in committing a scam (or hiding one's identity).

There's just so many coincidences about this Fernand Remakel that, surely, there has to be a connection? At first I thought it was purely a coincidence, but the more I think about it (especially the connection Lennox Head) and his sister's same/similar name, and the Florabella/florist thing... I feel that it can't be dismissed on the basis that he's "never been to Australia." Even if there is a connection, I don't know how it could be explored any further than it has been, unfortunately. So frustrating!

 

[Itsapuzzle]

There's just so many coincidences about this Fernand Remakel that, surely, there has to be a connection? At first I thought it was purely a coincidence, but the more I think about it (especially the connection Lennox Head) and his sister's same/similar name, and the Florabella/florist thing... I feel that it can't be dismissed on the basis that he's "never been to Australia." Even if there is a connection, I don't know how it could be explored any further than it has been, unfortunately. So frustrating!

All they need to do is check who the phone was registered to at the time, name and address will be revealed, the police can do this .... too easy, hey, if only someone in authority would run the check ... or have they already?

 

[StarrChance]

I believe that the whereabouts of the shipping container are unknown. Marion told Sally that the items in the shipping container were things to be shipped over to UK if she decided to move there. Some valuables (artwork) were in the shipping container (not given away to Sally/Owen). Marion may have had other storage (where Sally retrieved the kitchen scales)--but I'm not sure was the purpose/plan for that storage and its contents.

Oh those kitchen scales, why was returning them so important to her as she kept asking Sally about it? I have gone round and round trying to work out why they were so important to return to the school. Is the school really going to be that concerned about them (if at all)?

Perhaps a sign of stress/mental illness in Marion?

 

[Seabreeze1]

I'm really hoping a new episode is out tomorrow.

 

[Meligator]

Oh those kitchen scales, why was returning them so important to her as she kept asking Sally about it? I have gone round and round trying to work out why they were so important to return to the school. Is the school really going to be that concerned about them (if at all)?

Perhaps a sign of stress/mental illness in Marion?

It sounds like the school was a horrible place to work at that point in time. Many teachers resigned that year. Marion told Sally someone accused of inappropriate behavior with the boys. Given the culture of the school, its not hard to imagine that was a false accusation by someone with a grudge against Marion. Regarding the scales, Marion said she didn't want to give Luke Glover any more ammunition -- was he the one making accusations against her? Was she terrified that he would accuse her of theft or report the accusations to the police? I actually don't believe Marion touched boys inappropriately -- but even false accusations would be terrifying and humiliating. Luke was described as being pretty intimidating and manipulative. I think Marion's perseveration on the scales indicates just how scared she was of him. It was like the one last thing she could think of that he could use against her--she needed to get those scales back to free herself of that lingering worry.

So all that may explain why she felt the need to leave, but doesn't explain why she disappeared completely & indefinitely. I suspect that someone (maybe the man in the car), took advantage of Marion's fragile emotional state and carried out some scam. The way Sally describes her mom as being exhausted (literally falling asleep on the sofa sitting up), it seems hard to imagine Marion would have the energy to devise and carry out a sophisticated disappearing. I suspect someone convinced her the solution to all her problems involved some plan that required she change her name, hide her money etc.. -- that someone maybe walked her through these steps.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Marion’s banking details should reveal the name of the shipping container company and more besides.