Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Spontaneous Sunday morning breakfast thoughts ..... a lot of people who deliberately disappear are escaping from something ...... strict parents, step-parents, abuse, abusive partners, paying maintenance, to have children with someone else .... none of this fits for Marion, it’s all so peculiar - the name change throws everything into confusion though, unless of course that was merely for safety for travelling, a red herring now. Maybe she had an accident overseas and someone took her identity - I have so many theories, it’s shameful. It’s like Cliffy said, “so many possibilities, so few answers”. Now back to the Vegemite on toast

I've always wondered if it was meaningful that Marion's actions happened at the time Sally became engaged. If Marion was as desperate for a relationship as the podcast portrays then this may have triggered something (at least from Marions side). Marion may have decided that with one child living with his Dad and the other about to marry she was free to focus on herself.
I know to most its an outrageous suggestion that a Mum wouldnt want to be part of her children's adult lives (and grandchildren!!) but we know so little about Marion the person other than she was a teacher, had conservative fashion sense and liked being in a relationship. In 25 hours of podcast Marion presents as a fairly two dimensional figure. We know nothing really about her hobbies, like and dislikes, social activities, the clubs she was associated with, what she did for fun etc. It appears she was involved in some sort of art group because thats how she explained the guy in the car at Sally. Its unusual the podcast hasnt explored her memberships and social activities because if there was (for example) a man involved this is where she likely met him

 

[Meligator]

Interesting thought. The only snag (I’m sorry that I’m always playing devils advocate) would be a tax file number. The podcast said that there has been no activity under either Marion/Florabella name.

I’ve been thinking about how Marion could manage without a drivers licence, tax file number etc. One possibility is she could have set up a home day care and taken cash payments to avoid the taxman. But then where was she living - I assume the police could locate her through a rental agreement.

The police have said that there were no further name changes after Florabella, but maybe she changed her name through marriage while in the UK. The podcast says they checked Luxemburg for marriage records but I don’t know if G-Britain has been checked. Marion changed her name to Florabella before leaving Australia, but what if she then married (let call mystery man John Smith) when she was in GB? Florabella Ramekel would then become Florabella Smith, making her more difficult for her family to trace because Florabella Smith has no connection in Australia to Marion Barter. If marriage to a UK citizen entitled Marion to a UK passport she could travel under her Florabella Smith name and if Marion stayed in Australia after returning from the UK she would then have a primary identification (passport) and a secondary identification (marriage cert) document in her Smith name -potentially enabling her to set up life. All very far-fetched and implausible, unsure if its even possible just musing.

I think it was mentioned in one of the recent podcasts that in order to open a bank account in UK she would have need an address there. Perhaps she went the first month to establish a bank account....possibly with a different name somehow...then returned to Luxembourg in order to take money out without leaving trace of where the money is transferred to. I still don’t discount her doing so under duress or a con. But, a possibility that would suggest she returned/planned to return overseas.

 

[Meligator]

I wonder how confident Sally is that the original call she received from the police (saying the bank connected with her mother and she doesn’t want to be located) was actually from police and not someone connected to her mother. If the bank had called her mother to alert that the police & her daughter were looking for her, then someone could have called Sally pretending to be the police—to get Sally to stop searching. This would explain why there is no note in the police file.

 

[sunnynz]

I wonder how confident Sally is that the original call she received from the police (saying the bank connected with her mother and she doesn’t want to be located) was actually from police and not someone connected to her mother. If the bank had called her mother to alert that the police & her daughter were looking for her, then someone could have called Sally pretending to be the police—to get Sally to stop searching. This would explain why there is no note in the police file.

Great point! Hadn’t thought of that.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The one and only possible lead to explain her mother's disappearance was from a man who called Crime Stoppers in 2002.

The man claimed he had spotted the body of a missing woman named Marion, which had been found in bushland in Armidale, northern New South Wales.

The lead wasn't followed up until 2010, after Detective Sheehan took over the case in 2009.

"'Now that she will be on the missing person's register, I'm pushing for the SES to do a proper search because that's the only thing that's come through."



'I need to know she's okay': Daughter's tireless search for her mother who mysteriously vanished more than 22 years ago

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Episode 13. Very interesting and informative episode. The banking saga though ... my oh my .... so all the bank staff they've spoken to thus far, after much searching, are from the wrong bank, is that right!! They now have to find out who was working at the Colonial at the time? Sally couldn't possibly have rung the wrong bank because the account name, number and details wouldn't have come up for the Commonwealth Bank, so the mistake that must have been made was going in the wrong bank at Byron Bay .... not sure, it's all so confusing.

 

[tempcoops]

Itsapuzzle - I know!! What the....that's a major part of the mystery and now it seems it was a bum steer. I get that time has passed, and Sally was/is under stress of it all - but ummmm... quite the mistake. She was able to describe the CBA in detail with teller/rubbish man - so why was she in a CBA if Marion banked with State? Who did she even speak to on the phone that advised her of the $5k daily? I just don't get it. I bank with Westpac. If someone called NAB and was able to look up 'my' details and advise I'd taken out $5k a day for 3.5 weeks in Byron - they'd be lying. Seems like a weird and big lie.....so confusing.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Was just going to post that Episode 13 was up,

About to listen to it now so am trying not to look at anyones posts

 

[Morrisa]

Was just going to post that Episode 13 was up,

About to listen to it now so am trying not to look at anyones posts

Me too

 

[natural sagacity]

Episode 13. Very interesting and informative episode. The banking saga though ... my oh my .... so all the bank staff they've spoken to thus far, after much searching, are from the wrong bank, is that right!! They now have to find out who was working at the Colonial at the time? Sally couldn't possibly have rung the wrong bank because the account name, number and details wouldn't have come up for the Commonwealth Bank, so the mistake that must have been made was going in the wrong bank at Byron Bay .... not sure, it's all so confusing.

This is why a podcast should not be made based on supposition. It is definitely time to move on from making the Marion Barter podcasts until they actually find Marion or what happened to her.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Far out! I feel like the podcast is deliberately trying to create ambiguity. It's really not as complicated as they are trying to make it out to be.

Marion banked with Colonial state bank. In 2001 Colonial merged with Comm Bank. So Marion's Colonial branch got rebadged as comm bank. But that wasnt until 2001. During the relevant period in 97 (when Marion made the 5k withdrawals, Sally went into the branch with the photo and the police got involved) it was a colonial branch.

Bank mergers are really just rebranding - the branch is refurbished, the staff wear different uniforms, get trained about new products and customer information is migrated into a new computer system. The pre-merger colonial records for migrated customers would still be held by comm bank.

Sally was mistaken about which call centre she rang. She rang colonial bank there is absolutely no way it was comm bank.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I thought the 'interview' with the ex-boyfriend/groundskeeper at TSS was very interesting. Finally a little insight into Marion's temperament and personality. He seemed to suggest Marion's issues with TSS related to her disagreeing with superiors over teaching methods and that from his perspective at least (her boyfriend) Marion was being dramatic and petty.

It makes me think about the teaching award she recieved. The teacher aide who work with Marion and was interviewed for the podcast said that Marion nominated herself for the teaching award. I wonder if Marion nominated for the award because she felt insecure at TSS and wanted to prove a point, or perhaps wanted something to put on her resume.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Far out! I feel like the podcast is deliberately trying to create ambiguity. It's really not as complicated as they are trying to make it out to be.

Marion banked with Colonial state bank. In 2001 Colonial merged with Comm Bank. So Marion's Colonial branch got rebadged as comm bank. But that wasnt until 2001. During the relevant period in 97 (when Marion made the 5k withdrawals, Sally went into the branch with the photo and the police got involved) it was a colonial branch.

Bank mergers are really just rebranding - the branch is refurbished, the staff wear different uniforms, get trained about new products and customer information is migrated into a new computer system. The pre-merger colonial records for migrated customers would still be held by comm bank.

Sally was mistaken about which call centre she rang. She rang colonial bank there is absolutely no way it was comm bank.

Yes, I agree that Sally 100 per cent must have rang the Colonial Bank number, there's no other possible way to have got that information, but I think she physically went into the Commonwealth Bank, thus missing an opportunity to speak to someone who may have recalled seeing Marion. The fellow who said "that rings a bell" and disappeared behind the mystery door is completely innocent in that case .... he was my prime suspect, darn it .... but it's all clear on the semaphore board for all the Commonwealth Bank staff now who were in that branch as they couldn't possibly have been in the Colonial Bank at the time. The good thing is that the Comm Bank inherited all their info, and hopefully the policeman did the right thing and obtained information before it got turfed after the 14 years, hope so. The signature and information should be there naming the Colonial Bank member and hopefully they can be traced that way.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Episode 4, Taken - this is interesting.

On October 22 1997 Sally reported the disappearance to the police. It was logged as an occurrence ..... it wasn't long till they called back.

" In a matter of days I got a phone call from Byron Bay police. He told me that he had located my mum and she didn't want anyone to know where she is or what she was doing. I think I asked him more about where she was and how he found her, but he told me he couldn't give me any more information because Mum had indicated she didn't want contact with anyone" ....

Was that Marion? How would anyone have known but the police at that point? Or, do we have a villain at the Colonial Bank, male and female working together? It will be interesting to see if the same person allegedly dealt with Marion at both branches. Or, if it truly was Marion, maybe something untoward happened after that?Or, otherwise she just wanted to start over.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Delete

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Yes, I agree that Sally 100 per cent must have rang the Colonial Bank number, there's no other possible way to have got that information, but I think she physically went into the Commonwealth Bank, thus missing an opportunity to speak to someone who may have recalled seeing Marion. The fellow who said "that rings a bell" and disappeared behind the mystery door is completely innocent in that case .... he was my prime suspect, darn it .... but it's all clear on the semaphore board for all the Commonwealth Bank staff now who were in that branch as they couldn't possibly have been in the Colonial Bank at the time. The good thing is that the Comm Bank inherited all their info, and hopefully the policeman did the right thing and obtained information before it got turfed after the 14 years, hope so. The signature and information should be there naming the Colonial Bank member and hopefully they can be traced that way.

Yes the actual vouchers and whatever the identification verification would be stored in the tellers work for that day. The police I'm sure would already have that.

I cant help but see the bank as a bit of a red herring. There are just far to many checks and measures for a staff-fraud to go undetected - particularly when the Bank has reviewed those specific transactions a number of times (for police and red cross).

I was thinking a 'person of interest' was whoever pinched Marion's purse from her car - they could have used the contents of her purse for identification. But that doesnt really work because Marion reported her purse stolen so all the cards would have been cancelled. If alter-Marion used a stolen driver's license to verify her identification on the withdrawal slip (for example) it might be enough for the bank (if the person looked like Marion and the signature was close enough) but the police would have picked it up as soon as they got copies of the withdrawal vouchers as the license number would be recorded. There goes my prime suspect too!

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Episode 4, Taken - this is interesting.

On October 22 1997 Sally reported the disappearance to the police. It was logged as an occurrence ..... it wasn't long till they called back.

" In a matter of days I got a phone call from Byron Bay police. He told me that he had located my mum and she didn't want anyone to know where she is or what she was doing. I think I asked him more about where she was and how he found her, but he told me he couldn't give me any more information because Mum had indicated she didn't want contact with anyone" ....

Was that Marion? How would anyone have known but the police at that point? Or, do we have a villain at the Colonial Bank, male and female working together? It will be interesting to see if the same person allegedly dealt with Marion at both branches. Or, if it truly was Marion, maybe something untoward happened after that?Or, otherwise she just wanted to start over.

Personally I think the police did make actual contact with Marion herself in 97 but the officer didnt record the details because having established she was missing under her own volition no further action was required for the incident and therefore there no ongoing need for the contact information.

The retired police officer who wrote to Brian/Allison said that if people were found to be missing under their own volition it wasnt uncommon for the file to be marked 'located' with no other details recorded.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I thought the 'interview' with the ex-boyfriend/groundskeeper at TSS was very interesting. Finally a little insight into Marion's temperament and personality. He seemed to suggest Marion's issues with TSS related to her disagreeing with superiors over teaching methods and that from his perspective at least (her boyfriend) Marion was being dramatic and petty.

It makes me think about the teaching award she recieved. The teacher aide who work with Marion and was interviewed for the podcast said that Marion nominated herself for the teaching award. I wonder if Marion nominated for the award because she felt insecure at TSS and wanted to prove a point, or perhaps wanted something to put on her resume.

Yes, I really enjoyed hearing from Mr Edwards too, delightful fella, and you're right, Marion finally became more of a three dimensional character when he was talking. The mention of a wedding in Byron Bay and him saying "who do you know in Byron Bay", sort of caught my interest. Could she have met Monsieur Remakel at the wedding? Also the mention of a holiday they had in Norfolk Island was pretty interesting. I've been there three times and I didn't need a passport , just had a proof of identity thingo. If Marion did want to relocate somewhere, going by the podcast we've been told "Marion loved Tasmania, she said she'd move there if she could", "Marion wanted to teach in South Australia", "Marion loved Holland, would have loved to live there", then there's the "might decide to teach in the UK" .... Luxembourg housewife ....

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Oooh, one more thing. Did anyone hear when Greg E said they stopped dating? I didn't hear his answer at all, have played it a few times but can't get it, but very interested to know. Cheers

 

[tempcoops]

Oooh, one more thing. Did anyone hear when Greg E said they stopped dating? I didn't hear his answer at all, have played it a few times but can't get it, but very interested to know. Cheers

I took it that he didn't want her drama. The way she carried on about the broken plate etc. Sounds like too much high maintenance for a DTE bloke like Greg.