Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[gymtonic]

I came across these change of names on the NSW Land Registry Services website.

There is a registered Power of Attorney for Marion Ann Barter from 6/2000 which I think is a different MB.

Nice sleuthing @Littleguy7 !

 

[gymtonic]

I came across these change of names on the NSW Land Registry Services website.

There is a registered Power of Attorney for Marion Ann Barter from 6/2000 which I think is a different MB.

Nice sleuthing @Littleguy7 !

 

[centred]

I came across these change of names on the NSW Land Registry Services website.

There is a registered Power of Attorney for Marion Ann Barter from 6/2000 which I think is a different MB.

Well done @Littleguy7
You say the power of attorney for the above is a different one , why are you so sure can I ask ?

 

[KiwiNZ]

i guess what i am getting at , as i have often wondered if he did actually get his mits on the last $80000 and that it was Marion who withdrew this after realizing she would not be going to live this life overseas after more than 2 months being back in Australia ,

Upset , outraged , miserable , shamed and embarrassed she cut her losses , withdrew what she had left and left for good , eventually changing her name again to Natalia "someone ' eventually or met someone else , married again or just stayed single ...There was that message " Natalia is still alive but you will never see her again , she didn't leave because she wanted too but she was forced to do so ...Forced does not mean someone forced her , it can mean she felt like she had no choice ...

This is some thing i have been thinking since i first heard the podcast and nothing so far has me changing my scenario because i do not believe he murdered her or anyone else did for that matter

IMO

I just needed to get this out there for now

agree not sure this guy is a murder, I hope he is not !

So far we have seen no evidence he is even very good at what he does, only failed scams so far and they are hardly living the life of luxury, they don't even own a home, drove 1 car between them, where is the money ?

I really hope Marion is still alive

 

[brjakj]

I came across these change of names on the NSW Land Registry Services website.

There is a registered Power of Attorney for Marion Ann Barter from 6/2000 which I think is a different MB.

Interesting that they are registered. I wonder if MB’s was registered?

also, do they get registered in qld? If so, is there a register for those too?

 

[centred]

We have since found out that soon after she left for her ‘long holiday’ to England, she or someone using her passport returned to Australia. Her name was changed to ‘Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel’ and over the course of several weeks her bank account was completely drained in daily increments of $5000 – the maximum amount you can take out WITHOUT HAVING TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF
??

28,387 people signed and won this petition

 

[gymtonic]

QUEENSLAND DRIVER'S LICENCE (based on what I know of the system and info supplied by other WS sleuths)

FYI: I have updated my spreadsheet with the following:

1988: sometime between 1 Jan 1988 and 2 June 1988 Mr AKA presents his Belgian issued International Driver's Licence in the name of FNR to the Department of Transport, Queensland (as it was called then). IMO He would have had to go personally to one of the main hubs as this type of operation required it. A DL in the Name of FNR was issued with the expiry date as 2 Dec 1992 (since the 5 year licence period would be taken from the closest apparent birthday i.e. 2 Dec 1987). It would have been a laminated card with photo as these were introduced in 1986. He could have changed addresses and kept the same licence as the practice was to issue address change labels to affix to the licence card.

10 October 1992: Mr AKA having been notified by hard copy letter (the usual practice at that time) or realising that the licence will expire on 2 dec 1992 applies to extend the DL. IMO this still would have required physically walking into the Queensland Transport hub. New DL was issued with an expiry date of 2 Dec 1997.

1997: sometime before 2 Dec 1997, Mr AKA is sent a hard copy letter that his DL is about to expire. I am not sure if the reminder was sent 3 or 6 months before the expiry date.

2 Dec 1997: QLD DL in the name FNR expires and is not renewed.

 

[KiwiNZ]

We have since found out that soon after she left for her ‘long holiday’ to England, she or someone using her passport returned to Australia. Her name was changed to ‘Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel’ and over the course of several weeks her bank account was completely drained in daily increments of $5000 – the maximum amount you can take out WITHOUT HAVING TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF
??

28,387 people signed and won this petition

never heard of a bank that allows you to withdraw money without identifying yourself ?

I cant imagine this statement is correct

 

[Littleguy7]

Well done @Littleguy7
You say the power of attorney for the above is a different one , why are you so sure can I ask ?

I don't think Marion had any middle name. Must be a different Marion.

 

[centred]

never heard of a bank that allows you to withdraw money without identifying yourself ?

I cant imagine this statement is correct

It was a statement put out by Sally re a petition on change . org , so maybe wrong and she has corrected but i thought it was odd so posted ....I am not sure about the 90 s banking procedures as too long to recall practices , I do know things were easier to get away with things before digital era , times change , i do know people were more trusting and less suspicious of others that for sure

 

[gymtonic]

Interesting that they are registered. I wonder if MB’s was registered?

also, do they get registered in qld? If so, is there a register for those too?

The Queensland Powers of Attorney Act came in 1998, so would be different then to the current system?

 

[gymtonic]

It was a statement put out by Sally re a petition on change . org , so maybe wrong and she has corrected but i thought it was odd so posted ....I am not sure about the 90 s banking procedures as too long to recall practices , I do know things were easier to get away with things before digital era , times change , i do know people were more trusting and less suspicious of others that for sure

My recollection (but obviously not verified data here) in Queensland at that time was that the branch you set up your account was called your local branch and you could possibly withdraw money without ID as you would be well known. pre ATMs you would fill out paper deposit and withdrawal forms. But in other branches of that bank you would have to show ID. And for large amounts over your daily withdrawal limit, even at your local branch you would have to show ID. TBH Queensland was a different country then!

EDIT: but just realised this was the $5000 per day from Byron and Burleigh branches.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

There is a Marion Ann Barter, on the Trove link below. From 1969 so very unlikely to be our Marion.

12 Sep 1969 - RESIGNATIONS - Trove

Department of the Valuer-General

Mrs Marion Ann Barter, Cleric {7th March, 1969 (three

quarter day)].

RESIGNATIONS - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 12 Sep 1969

 

[centred]

I don't think Marion had any middle name. Must be a different Marion.

yes that is not a huge leap for a name change if you don't want to be found

 

[Estelle]

Adding here that the real FNR in LUX birthday is 12 December, born 1947. He would have been 2 days shy of 47 when the ad was placed by RB in LeC on 19 Jan 1994 saying he was 47. IMO there is no way RB can deny he was trying to impersonate the real FNR @Estelle
Fernand Remakel (Player) | National Football Teams (national-football-teams.com)
edited to add further comment

Thanks BabeBlues. The timeline I have from Peralta is that on 10/12/1994 Ad is placed by Remakel. You also say FNR's birthday is 12/12/1947 but Gymtonic is saying that it is 2 December 1947.

 

[KiwiNZ]

It was a statement put out by Sally re a petition on change . org , so maybe wrong and she has corrected but i thought it was odd so posted ....I am not sure about the 90 s banking procedures as too long to recall practices , I do know things were easier to get away with things before digital era , times change , i do know people were more trusting and less suspicious of others that for sure

I haven't seen her correct it, but I thought it was an odd statement - but I clearly remember banking in the 90's, it was easier if they knew you personally, but not if you went into a bank not familiar with you.

I am still convinced it was Marion that removed the money though

 

[Estelle]

nice work

The only thing that is throwing me is the bank IDing Marion and stating she doesn't not want her family to know where she is .. that statement indicates she knows her family is looking for her and therefore the contact by the bank to Marion, triggered by the police enquiry, would have been made after the 22/10

Of course there could be crossed wires in that statement but the lady giving evidence was quite convincing

IMO I suspect that this information was given on a phone call (not in person) that Marion did not wish her family to know where she is. The person, if it was a woman, would have been DdH IMO.

IMO the use of the Medicare card was by DdH in Grafton.

IMO Also the Chapman email to Sally on FB in 2002 would have been from RB.

These would have been their attempts in making people think Marion was still alive. Murderers often do this.

 

[gymtonic]

Thanks BabeBlues. The timeline I have from Peralta is that on 10/12/1994 Ad is placed by Remakel. FNR's birthday is 12/12/1947.

Oh, I am confused again @Estelle because I thought AC said in the inquest that RB had taken the alias of the real F Remakel completely including his date of birth. so the link @BabeBlues provided says that the real F Ramakel's birthday is 1947/12/02, which I have taken to be 2 December 1947 (either that or 12 February depending on which date order system is used). I based all my Queensland DL timeline on it being 2 Dec 1947. Where does FNR birthday as 12 December 1947 come from?

 

[centred]

agree not sure this guy is a murder, I hope he is not !

So far we have seen no evidence he is even very good at what he does, only failed scams so far and they are hardly living the life of luxury, they don't even own a home, drove 1 car between them, where is the money ?

I really hope Marion is still alive

yeah without going into all the details re trust companies , inheritances , land and refinancing another house and the schemes abroad, coins and antiques etc it seems like any finances went into the children so far as we know while they lived a austere life together and his excitement and pathology of etc abandonment was satisfied by having a bit on the side included and seems like his only tangible payoff .

Maybe that idea of a better life than he had for his offspring that he had from D was also part of his history and pathology , hence their education , sports and vocations .

 

[Liselle]

nice work

The only thing that is throwing me is the bank IDing Marion and stating she doesn't not want her family to know where she is .. that statement indicates she knows her family is looking for her and therefore the contact by the bank to Marion, triggered by the police enquiry, would have been made after the 22/10

Of course there could be crossed wires in that statement but the lady giving evidence was quite convincing

Most of the testimony from the Missing Persons Qld officer sounded strange to me. Withdrawing/closing an account (in August, '97) is one thing, but how would the conversation have started with a bank teller? MB - "Thank you for my money, I'm closing the account, but don't tell anyone where I am." Teller - "Okay, your privacy is paramount, and not even police missing persons will ever know." All very odd… was MB threatened or coerced by someone? Privacy is important up to a point, but when a case escalates to (allegedly) missing/ abducted/ deceased, I would have expected FOI to be legally implemented in follow ups. The family only reported her missing in October 1997.