Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[Estelle]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye When WW first arrived (Perth, Western Australia) in 1969, the address he was going to stay at for a 3 month holiday (6 Gosbell St, Paddington) was the home of a Mr. Manfred Joachim Lehninger, who had just received his Certificate of Naturalisation. But for the life of me, I cannot find the Chusan coming to Australia during the years in question. India (early 1971); fire in Southampton dock (July 71); South Africa (Dec 71 -Jan 72) and decommissioned (1973). Why aren't these things straightforward?

What do we know about Mr. Manfred Joachim Lehninger?

 

[Estelle]

Yes I was just letting someone know that the NAA was working - when I posted up that link.

No you are not daft thinking that at all.!

I did a post some time back about this.
My theory is THEY DID know each other before departing Aust 1970 and that they did NOT meet on the ship coming back in 1971 ( as they say at the inquest).

I will also say that there was NO CAFE being looked after by the sister of DdeH while her and her family went on a 'business' trip for over a year, as was mentioned a little earlier here.

If the sister was younger than DdH, then would she have been still been at school and looked after here by family? Otherwise, I wonder why they didn't take the sister on this trip too?

 

[Bagpus]

Forgive me but everytime I read about DdH, her family, Europe, and Wonka, I think unwanted pregnancy. In fact, it screams at me. Parents whisking daughter far away to have baby in secret and give up for adoption. That's how it was. There I've said it.

Some are saying that she might have met RB before she left Australia. Do you think it could have been his baby?

 

[Roseberry]

If they both spent time together for a few days in Japan and they did not book a return trip, neither RB nor MB would have been entitled to the free night layover with JAL. You can buy airline tickets at the airport direct with the airline you wish to fly with. I would suggest that RB had a fake Remakel passport and they both went either to the airport to buy the next leg of their journey there or used a local travel agent in Japan. IMO it was important (as far as RB was concerned) for both to arrive at Heathrow at the same time due to the booking in of the bags at the baggage counter so that RB got access to MB's case with the documents later.

Just a question (on from this and up further) as to why the assumption the bulk of stopover time was spent in Japan? It seemed from the inquest questioning to SL (from memory), that it pointed to an extended stay in South Korea, rather than Japan (ie, did she have a special interest in the culture and/or food, that would explain a stopover there?). On the other hand, the questioning to RB was specifically directed toward a preponderance for overnight stopovers in Japan.
Drawing inferences and bearing in mind that we are dealing with imperfect info and they are not: it seems the prolonged amount of time for MB was spent South Korea and not Japan? Happy to invite discussion on this - it's not an area I've dwelt on, but a few furthers:
1997 - APEC cards were introduced, allowing frequent business travellers after pre-authorisation with member countries, to basically sail through DP channels. In, practice, (and from bitter experience) this meant on arrival an APEC card holder would wander through a separate channel with minimal scrutiny; non-card holders would join the general queue, meet up at baggage claim and proceed onward. And the member countries included: Australia, Japan and South Korea. You wouldn't need to see your co-traveller's PPT, if they were, in fact, travelling with you.
Also - travel Japan - last twenty years only, but they ticket your PPT on arrival, which has to be surrendered on departure. Just considering "stickies" for RB, and why the desire to avoid Japan post -'97.

 

[mishy66]

Re the scales.
Maybe someone had put it in ber mind that the school was having an inventory and that she may be accused of stealing them, just one more thing in her mind after the complaint that was made against her.

Or maybe it was something she just thought about and worried over whether she had used her money or the schools.
To many people, leaving a job, they might want to make sure they handed back anything that belonged to the school.

If it was me I would have become obsessed about getting the scales back too.

Upon really thinking about it, I would really worry if I thought I might have something that belonged to the school, especially if I'd possibly used the petty cash.


If it was me, I wouldn't be really able to relax til the scales were returned.

Yes my thoughts too. I think SL mentioned the same thoughts earlier on

 

[mishy66]

....was the home of a Mr. Manfred Joachim Lehninger, who had just received his Certificate of Naturalisation.

I haven't seen this name or info before. What do we know about him?

 

[mishy66]

If the sister was younger than DdH, then would she have been still been at school and looked after here by family? Otherwise, I wonder why they didn't take the sister on this trip too?

Unfortunately after I posted that up, it was too late to edit it. oops!
I have her birthdate, just forgot about it.
She is older than DdeH.

 

[Estelle]

Unfortunately after I posted that up, it was too late to edit it. oops!
I have her birthdate, just forgot about it.
She is older than DdeH.

Perhaps the sister was engaged (or married) then so she didn't want to leave her man behind.

 

[mishy66]

Does that imply RB claimed that MB and the pilot actually went to RB's Wollongbar house to pick up her boxes?

Yes it does, and when he was asked about the uniform at the inquest, he described a uniform that was similar to something he had seen back in his ' days of the Belgian Congo' - as DdeH says
IMO

 

[Estelle]

Just a question (on from this and up further) as to why the assumption the bulk of stopover time was spent in Japan? It seemed from the inquest questioning to SL (from memory), that it pointed to an extended stay in South Korea, rather than Japan (ie, did she have a special interest in the culture and/or food, that would explain a stopover there?). On the other hand, the questioning to RB was specifically directed toward a preponderance for overnight stopovers in Japan.
Drawing inferences and bearing in mind that we are dealing with imperfect info and they are not: it seems the prolonged amount of time for MB was spent South Korea and not Japan? Happy to invite discussion on this - it's not an area I've dwelt on, but a few furthers:
1997 - APEC cards were introduced, allowing frequent business travellers after pre-authorisation with member countries, to basically sail through DP channels. In, practice, (and from bitter experience) this meant on arrival an APEC card holder would wander through a separate channel with minimal scrutiny; non-card holders would join the general queue, meet up at baggage claim and proceed onward. And the member countries included: Australia, Japan and South Korea. You wouldn't need to see your co-traveller's PPT, if they were, in fact, travelling with you.
Also - travel Japan - last twenty years only, but they ticket your PPT on arrival, which has to be surrendered on departure. Just considering "stickies" for RB, and why the desire to avoid Japan post -'97.

The way I read Casselden's questioning about South Korea was that he was asking SL about why her mother would spend time there trying to discount the idea (or even confirm it). eg "Did your mother like the food"? etc. I felt he was predicting that SL would say "no" to each question as he thought the idea was incredible.

Your comment about APEC holders is interesting and could explain a lot.

 

[mishy66]

Ok so… the kitchen scales…. Umm is it odd to anyone else that majority of letter is about those scales and the school? There seems to be a heck of a lot of importance in these scales.
Reasons why they were removed from class.
Reasons why they weren’t returned including Sally using them for baking? Not to elaborate.
I just find it really odd.
May be perfectly normal for Marion I don’t know.. but it reads like it matters a bit more than scales should matter to a woman supposedly having a ball living her best life travelling. JMO

I seem to recall SL mentioning M was really frantic about the scales returning. It may have had something to do with why she left that school so abruptly - that someone had made a complaint or such about her? Or accused her of something? and she didn't want to be accused of anything else like 'borrowing' school things?

 

[mishy66]

I just realised something... really sinister...

If Wonka had stored Marion's boxes AT HIS HOME, if she took them there together with him and knew where they were located and what he looked like,

She was never ever intended to return to Aus or survive to tell the tale to anyone, least of all show the property and describe Wonka.

He set up the story of the pilot to give an explanation of why she had subsequently disappeared (flown off with a pilot) and a man who was the last to be seen with her, creating reasonable doubt that there were other men involved.

That would make this not only most likely a murder case but a very premeditated indeed murder case.

Yep this is what I also feel happened.

 

[mishy66]

Hence her 'memory problem' with it's own wiki page ...

hahhahaha! I just love this.

 

[Roseberry]

@Estelle: Your comment about APEC holders is interesting and could explain a lot.

It might, and it might not, given of course that AC might have an entirely different fish to fry, but the underlying seemed to me that it seemed she might have spent longer in South Korea than Japan.

The APEC could explain, and it could not, but I still think we should consider AC's probable 'fish': Why did MB go where she did, and for what underlying reason?

 

[mishy66]

Forgive me but everytime I read about DdH, her family, Europe, and Wonka, I think unwanted pregnancy. In fact, it screams at me. Parents whisking daughter far away to have baby in secret and give up for adoption. That's how it was. There I've said it.

That could be a reason for sure! Nothing would surprise me at all anymore.
But there are a couple of other reasons why they all may have gone.
It is such a crazy messed up life they all lead!

 

[Estelle]

@Estelle: Your comment about APEC holders is interesting and could explain a lot.

It might, and it might not, given of course that AC might have an entirely different fish to fry, but the underlying seemed to me that it seemed she might have spent longer in South Korea than Japan.

The APEC could explain, and it could not, but I still think we should consider AC's probable 'fish': Why did MB go where she did, and for what underlying reason?

Well RB could have flown to Seoul from Tokyo to meet MB there to spend a few days together for her "interesting trip to the East". As a traveller, my gut feeling is that Tokyo in 1997 would have been a more appealing destination for a female in her 50s than Seoul would have been. But since when has RB ever considered the other person's interests? However, he had to lure Marion with a romantic destination for a possible fake marriage and Tokyo would have done it for me. I just can't see MB being alone in Seoul as Australians knew very little about Seoul in those days. My son married a South Korean so I went there to meet her parents (so I knew someone there) and the other time, I went to an International Rotary Convention. However, I don't like Korean food - especially hate kimchi - and if not, with company I would have been very lonely.

 

[Estelle]

That could be a reason for sure! Nothing would surprise me at all anymore.
But there are a couple of other reasons why they all may have gone.
It is such a crazy messed up life they all lead!

I thought the Walkers may have taken DdH by ship to the UK to celebrate her 21st birthday rather than giving her a big party. Her father was 12 years older than her mother so maybe it was also his retirement trip.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye When WW first arrived (Perth, Western Australia) in 1969, the address he was going to stay at for a 3 month holiday (6 Gosbell St, Paddington) was the home of a Mr. Manfred Joachim Lehninger, who had just received his Certificate of Naturalisation. But for the life of me, I cannot find the Chusan coming to Australia during the years in question. India (early 1971); fire in Southampton dock (July 71); South Africa (Dec 71 -Jan 72) and decommissioned (1973). Why aren't these things straightforward?

hmm I thought a while back a passenger card for both Mrs Wonka and Mr wonka under the brothers name was found by a sleuth - arriving end of march 1971.
I went down then gosbell street too, there was also a hungarian family there for a while, I wonder if the woman was the 'friend of IK's'. There's a lot of movement at the property including ads in trove, I think it may have been a boarding house at some stage.

 

[mishy66]

Thanks for those links.

I notice their original Ballina house, which I had assumed they owned, wasn't sold in late 1996 when they moved, it was sold in April 1998, after they had moved back to a different house in Ballina.

Was it perhaps a rental? Or did RB possess two homes during that time?

The Wollongbar house history doesn't go back to the 1990s. Possibly the old home was demolished and a new one built.

I guess no one knows their current address in Ballina. Makes sense, for privacy reasons.

My curiosity about the housing changes is that buying and selling real estate can be a way to launder money - as well as possibly being what RB was after: a nicer/paid off house for himself and his family.

JMO

This really interests me what you say here.

Buying and selling houses does not seem to fit his character as it leaves too much of a tangle with banks/ names/ income etc - given they have 'been on a pension' for half their lives.

I am going with they are 'renting' all the homes they move to and that it helps to assist someone else by way of tax deductibility.

So for example, I have a million dollar house that you can rent from me for $1 a year say, and I make a loss of what payments I would have to make in that year on that investment property, which gives me tax deductibility.

It is a win win.
I am building a multibillion dollar empire and you get nice homes to live in all your life for next to nothing!
And you don't need to worry about HOW you are paying for all these homes on a pension!

This is what I believe is happening with all the properties.

It is what I am doing in return of this favour that is the real question!

IMO MOO

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye When WW first arrived (Perth, Western Australia) in 1969, the address he was going to stay at for a 3 month holiday (6 Gosbell St, Paddington) was the home of a Mr. Manfred Joachim Lehninger, who had just received his Certificate of Naturalisation. But for the life of me, I cannot find the Chusan coming to Australia during the years in question. India (early 1971); fire in Southampton dock (July 71); South Africa (Dec 71 -Jan 72) and decommissioned (1973). Why aren't these things straightforward?

because nothing about RB is straight forward