Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[Liselle]

Buy Luxembourgish passports online - Luxembourg passport for sale - #1 Exquisite fake Luxemburg book

Oh my goodness!! I attempted to read the info on this website, but the grammar, sentence structure and linguistics are like Chinese Washing Machine instructions! The head office is supposedly in Los Angeles but more likely "Nigeria"!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Probably nothing, but signature looks like Kinczel, yet she’s traveling as Wouters. Wouldn’t you sign in the name you are using?

I’d say because the card was pre-signed, and she did not know what name was being written on the card. The thing that will never make sense is WHY her baby did not travel with her. It just doesn’t add up. So perhaps another person left and IK did fly with baby. OR another person impersonated IK and flew with the baby under the married name Wouters. Meaning perhaps IK had a passport for both names?
I don’t believe they were married… due to her marrying someone else so quickly UNLESS it was a transaction marriage… she comes here to hide pregnancy and give birth… returns to marry the real father. And RB or whoever the heck WW is gets residency in exchange for putting his name to birth certificate. Marriage annulled OS??? Hence being able to marry straight away in return.??

 

[KiwiNZ]

delete

 

[KiwiNZ]

she is travelling on a different passport to that she entered on, does anyone know how to find the countries passport by the number ?

 

[mishy66]

Double post..

 

[mishy66]

I’d say because the card was pre-signed, and she did not know what name was being written on the card. The thing that will never make sense is WHY her baby did not travel with her. It just doesn’t add up. So perhaps another person left and IK did fly with baby. OR another person impersonated IK and flew with the baby under the married name Wouters. Meaning perhaps IK had a passport for both names?
I don’t believe they were married… due to her marrying someone else so quickly UNLESS it was a transaction marriage… she comes here to hide pregnancy and give birth… returns to marry the real father. And RB or whoever the heck WW is gets residency in exchange for putting his name to birth certificate. Marriage annulled OS??? Hence being able to marry straight away in return.??

It's so confusing isn't it!
But I keep going back to the fact that baby EJ who grew up and started her own business USED the name I. Wouters initially... why use that name IF they (the parents) didnt marry...... and we dont actually have any documentation about marriage to MJR ...ONLY what is written on Ilonas death cert.

 

[BonnieB]

It's so confusing isn't it!
But I keep going back to the fact that baby EJ who grew up and started her own business USED the name I. Wouters initially... why use that name IF they (the parents) didnt marry...... and we dont actually have any documentation about marriage to MJR ...ONLY what is written on Ilonas death cert.

I guess it all depends on what her birth certificate says. If she is registered as IEJ Wouters, that is her legal name until she changes it herself or marries.

 

[BonnieB]

Double post..

 

[BonnieB]

she is travelling on a different passport to that she entered on, does anyone know how to find the countries passport by the number ?

View attachment 337999

I'd guess she had to apply for a new passport to use her married name and because she assumed his nationality upon marriage, the new passport would be Belgian.

 

[mishy66]

I guess it all depends on what her birth certificate says. If she is registered as IEJ Wouters, that is her legal name until she changes it herself or marries.

Yep exactly.
I am more refering to the possibility that wouters DID marry Ilona and the possibility of him already having a stolen identity of a MJR to use in Aust IF needed....

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

It's so confusing isn't it!
But I keep going back to the fact that baby EJ who grew up and started her own business USED the name I. Wouters initially... why use that name IF they (the parents) didnt marry...... and we dont actually have any documentation about marriage to MJR ...ONLY what is written on Ilonas death cert.

She could simply have used it because that was on her birth certificate.

 

[BonnieB]

Yep exactly.
I am more refering to the possibility that wouters DID marry Ilona and the possibility of him already having a stolen identity of a MJR to use in Aust IF needed....

Well, I suppose if Ilona applied for a Belgian passport in her married name, she would need proof of the marriage. Having said that, we are talking about Mr. Fraud Forger esq.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I'd guess she had to apply for a new passport to use her married name and because she assumed his nationality upon marriage, the new passport would be Belgian.

It’s possible but this would have had to be done here in Australia.. as she was here. Maybe through embassy? After birth of daughter she would’ve needed a passport that had combined mother & baby

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Some passport info on dual citizenship

the mention of leaving Aus on Aus passport is recommended then you can use the other one if you are flying into that country.

THIS could explains AKA’s stopovers. Swapping passports as we had suspected.



Advice for dual nationals

 

[MrsWattle]

Double

 

[MrsWattle]

Great find that clipping @MrsWattle
Is there a link to those clippings??


""There just doesn't seem to be enough time to get a divorce from Wouters in Budapest"" .....
no time for a marriage let alone a divorce! If you go back and have a look at my timeline on that it wasn't even 24 hours.

There has been no marriage cert found.

I don't think she did marry Michael John Reid in Hungry. I think she married Wouters - thinking he was the man of her dreams ( NIGHTMARE more like it)

She arrives in Australia and had the baby - it probably wasn't in his plans for that to happen!

We only have dates based on her death cert with the name MJR coming into the picture.

I think it has been presumed MJR and IK met overseas.

OR

Maybe he is WW under another alias (MJR) in case he needed it coming into Aust as I posted earlier .


BUT we do have an ABN linked to her daughter who shows at the start of her business she used the name IK -
This is the SAME name on "her" departure card - named after her mother - Ilona EJ Wouters.
So my thinking is this is her REAL name given to her by her mother ( very common to name babies after parents / family members back then) and she just uses her middle name - hence the change ( it was only a month or so before she changed it so probably thought she had to use her OFFICIAL name at the time and then found she could use the name she is known by -).



""Were they connected to Claire de Hedervary U.N. hence all the redacted info ? She also worked in Japan.""

He certainly was connected - IMO!

Hi Mishy, I Can't seem to link it but I found it on ancestry Australia.

Search for M J R name with Weightman as extra keyword.

Yes! It's possible RB used MJR identity to travel (he liked using other people's ID leaving Willy Wouters in his past because of the criminal records.

Selling or stealing passports and ID and travellers cheques was a thing in the 70's
Has anyone seen The Serpent on Netflix. Asian wild crime story. [/QUOTE]

 

[BonnieB]

I recall Wonka saying that IK ran away to Melbourne. There was a Josephine Novotny b:1896 Csejte, Hungary living in Melbourne. Don't know if she was connected on IK's mother's side.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Here’s some more info on passports.. that adds to the confusion of IK and baby passport numbers.

it wasn’t until 1986 that children could no longer be on parents passport and had to have their own.

So baby IK would have to have been on mother or fathers passport.

Baby IK passport starts with letter G

In 1964, 'G' series passport introduced, with the St Edward's Crown at the top of the cover, the word 'Australia' followed by the Australian Coat of Arms, and the words 'British Passport' at the bottom.

Australian passport - Wikipedia

The evolution of the Australian passport

Because it starts with letter G… would this mean it is an Australian Passport?????? Thoughts??

Did WW fly out on the same number passport as arriving? Has anybody checked his numbers?

EDIT @mishy66 do you have his departure card on hand?

 

[KiwiNZ]

It’s possible but this would have had to be done here in Australia.. as she was here. Maybe through embassy? After birth of daughter she would’ve needed a passport that had combined mother & baby

looks like baby has her own passport

the G looks to be consistent with other Australian passport holders , but I can find anything to reference passport pre-fixers for other countries so I don't really know how the passport numbers work

 

[Estelle]

the two signatures of 'IK" do we think these are written by the same person ?

I think it is and the X is added by another person to indicate she needs to sign here

1. IK outgoing on 10 May
2. Baby outgoing 8 May

I am in the Marion came back camp ( but could change my mind lol) - however if we think these signatures are written by the same person - is this an old trick of RB's in getting people to sign passenger cards pre-departure ?

Or the other option is that the cards are handed out when you check in, she has signed it before handing the baby over and them going through customs.

View attachment 337974

Could the date/s be incorrect? The problem is that these cards are never checked by authorities at the time to make sure they're correct. You can virtually put anything on them IMO.