Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[mishy66]

I am not so sure he introduced himself as WW , I think she called him Rick because at that time she believed him to be Ric

Inquest Day 5

2:35 - what was his name when you met him on that trip - "willy wouters"

She knew him as WW right up until he changed his name before their marriage.

 

[gymtonic]

Mishy I am not accusing you of anything , I suggested a reasonable fact that we have to be careful about insinuation of any sort , of course we all have opinions , some re more valid than others at times , my point is it does not need judgement as this can be construed as accusing and just to be aware of any repercussions for our own good . Sorry if you felt otherwise .

It's something I've been concerned about for a while now, and the reason I am sometimes very circumspect about what I post. It's a double-edged sword for cases like this to have such widespread discussion and public knowledge of case details. On the one hand podcasts and online forums raise the profile and increase the chances of finding evidence, witnesses and leads, but on the other can jeopardise the situation should anything proceed to trial. Apa boleh buat?! ("what to do, lah?!".... as they say in Malaysia!)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

T

Eyespywithmylittleeye, a very insightful post.

You've put everything I was thinking into words.


QUOTE="Eyespywithmylittleeye, post: 17523589, member: 302078"]I suspect the person she is now is not the person she was when meeting him. That person is gone and what’s left is the fallout of being involved with a man like him.

I don’t think any of us can truly judge what it would be like to be gaslighted for 40 years. But IMO I would be a broken shell of a person.

[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I want this man brought to justice if he has been involved with the disappearance of Marion but I am mindful of judging DdH or the children. D chose him as her husband it doesn’t mean she chose what she has had to endure.

 

[centred]

Inquest Day 5

2:35 - what was his name when you met him on that trip - "willy wouters"

She knew him as WW right up until he changed his name before their marriage.

Yes she did say he used the name WW but it was also said she knew him as Ric and didn't like the name Fredy and has always called him Ric . We still do not know who he really is and maybe she doesn't either , whether she knew him as Ric and he went by the name WW and she knew both at the time is questionable as his card said Ric , but either way when he finally changed his name from WW before marriage she still called him Ric . she reiterates she always called him Ric so my point about being introduced as WW still stands as I said I am not so sure

She also testified BOTH of his parents died during the war .

She also understood his bio FATHER was a DhD

and kept saying "that's what THEY told me " and that was what he said ...IMO she only knows what she hears ..and then there is what she believes now .

 

[BonnieB]

Years of gaslighting can affect your ability to think for yourself. Your opinions don’t exist and over time you don’t even think about opinions. It becomes normal to rely on the narcissist to provide everything to you, including how you think.
I agree she did appear unable to concentrate that could be a memory problem however a google page of a condition to me sounds like Wonka trying to insist she has one to cover any discrepancies in their timeline and stories. If there was a legitimate reason it would have been brought to the attention of all parties before her taking the stand.
I saw a woman who has no voice and when put on the spot was unable to communicate. I wondered if she was medicated which under the circumstances would be understandable. I always wondered if she was just niaive.

I believe she knows elements but I also believe as stated earlier she is broken from years of being with a man who clearly is a narcissist and has controlled their live. He has let her down time and time again..and this just appeared to be another moment in her life where the rug was pulled completely out from under her. Her reactions and answers are confused because she has lost her voice and she is broken. There may also be elements of her trying to remember what she was ‘perhaps’ coached to say.
Overall I saw a woman who was ashamed, embarrassed of her husbands behaviour and it certainly felt to me that these feeling were not new that she had experienced this before.

I don’t know if she was involved with what happened to Marion maybe .. maybe not, however IMO she has reaped benefits or financial gain over the years from his scamming. And hasn’t questioned because she knows she will be lied to and what is the point.

I suspect the person she is now is not the person she was when meeting him. That person is gone and what’s left is the fallout of being involved with a man like him.

I don’t think any of us can truly judge what it would be like to be gaslighted for 40 years. But IMO I would be a broken shell of a person.

Well explained @Eyespywithmylittleeye ! Having personally been on the receiving end of gaslighting, you DO begin to question your own reasoning. It literally sucks your energy to the point of "why bother to argue".
IMO, her confusion stems from trying to sort reality (truth) from years of conditioning and probably recent coaching. IMO, she was genuinely shocked and embarrassed by his unashamed admissions of sexual affairs. Turning a blind eye to his monetary scams is one thing, learning of his sex exploits so publicly was devastating for her as a wife and mother. IMO, she agreed to lie about certain matters, out of genuine fear that she will be implicated in any prosecution that may follow the inquest.
I recall something GGB said in her testimony, that he began to criticize her very early on in their affair. It's all part of his MO. Love bomb to suck them in, then undermine their self esteem to control. I imagine DdH has lived with this process on "repeat cycle" her entire married life.
Was she a party to the disappearance of MB? I'm still undecided.

 

[lrb66]

I am interested in the Ballina Coins phone number listed in the 1994 ‘Le Courrier Australian’ Ad
RB says no one ever answered it.
But perhaps RB used it as a contact number for himself also in 1997??
RB said at the inquest that he shared Ballina Coin office with his accountant “Barry”and that He(accountant) is now retired on the Gold Coast
Have I remembered this correctly??
Perhaps Barry remembers taking phone calls for women asking for RB or one of his many aliases??
All IMO/MOO

 

[centred]

IMO if DdH had anything to do with impersonating Marion, RB will put DdH under the bus immediately.

Why do you think that RB said at the Inquest that he left MB's ad around the house for DdH to see?

I have NO idea , that was really very odd ...But it does suggest he wanted to have someone verify the ad was written by MB IMO

 

[BonnieB]

Yes she did say he used the name WW but it was also said she knew him as Ric and didn't like the name Fredy and has always called him Ric . We still do not know who he really is and maybe she doesn't either , whether she knew him as Ric and he went by the name WW and she knew both at the time is questionable as his card said Ric , but either way when he finally changed his name from WW before marriage she still called him Ric . she reiterates she always called him Ric so my point about being introduced as WW still stands as I said I am not so sure

She also testified BOTH of his parents died during the war .

She also understood his bio FATHER was a DhD

and kept saying "that's what THEY told me " and that was what he said ...IMO she only knows what she hears ..and then there is what she believes now .

The way I see it, it's simple.
She met FD on a cruise ship, she knew him only as FD hence the "Rick" name.
IMO, the first she heard of WW was when he wrote to her from prison in France.
He returned to Australia in 1974 (on an unknown stolen or falsified passport)
He quickly assumed the FD alias again until he could falsify his citizenship paperwork and become FDeH.
The reason DdH lied about knowing him as WW is obvious; to cover up the fact that he sailed and entered Australia on the illegal FD passport.

 

[Estelle]

Inquest Day 5

2:35 - what was his name when you met him on that trip - "willy wouters"

She knew him as WW right up until he changed his name before their marriage.

If DdH was writing to him while he was in prison, she had to know him as Willy Wouters.

 

[Estelle]

I am interested in the Ballina Coins phone number listed in the 1994 ‘Le Courrier Australian’ Ad
RB says no one ever answered it.
But perhaps RB used it as a contact number for himself also in 1997??
RB said at the inquest that he shared Ballina Coin office with his accountant “Barry”and that He(accountant) is now retired on the Gold Coast
Have I remembered this correctly??
Perhaps Barry remembers taking phone calls for women asking for RB or one of his many aliases??
All IMO/MOO

That's a possibility but also RB could have had the phone no in the ad permanently transferred to other landline or mobile numbers.

 

[Estelle]

I have NO idea , that was really very odd ...But it does suggest he wanted to have someone verify the ad was written by MB IMO

But by saying that, he implicated DdH as having knowledge of MB at that time - not later.

 

[MrsWattle]

I am interested in the Ballina Coins phone number listed in the 1994 ‘Le Courrier Australian’ Ad
RB says no one ever answered it.
But perhaps RB used it as a contact number for himself also in 1997??
RB said at the inquest that he shared Ballina Coin office with his accountant “Barry”and that He(accountant) is now retired on the Gold Coast
Have I remembered this correctly??
Perhaps Barry remembers taking phone calls for women asking for RB or one of his many aliases??
All IMO/MOO

I especially took notice of RB description of his safe at the inquest, he said 3 X 4 inches and then looked from side to side as though he got away with it!. No further questions asked! I imagined it would have been the largest safe from a hardware store with lock keys and combination to hide his fake documents, multiple passports, stolen items, coin collection and probably Marion's stolen purse?

Ohhhh funny you should mention Barry Cooper, book, coin and other dealer?
Scroll down and read GlenStephens memory of Barry Cooper in the good ol' days in Bondi, probs when RB was there?. It's a small world in Sydney's Eastern suburbs amongst the Jewish community, it is a close knit European immigrant world where they all know each other, did business a bit a back scratching and helping each other out. I don't know Barry Cooper's coin and book collectables past but it could be a perfect money laundering opportunity, coins, stamps, gold, jewelry, books, antiques.
Barry Cooper's Stamps & Coins - Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Forum

 

[lrb66]

I especially took notice of RB description of his safe at the inquest, he said 3 X 4 inches and then looked from side to side as though he got away with it!. No further questions asked! I imagined it would have been the largest safe from Bunnings with lock keys and combination to hide his fake documents, multiple passports, stolen items, coin collection and probably Marion's stolen purse?

Ohhhh funny you should mention Barry Cooper, book, coin and other dealer?
Scroll down and read GlenStephens memory of Barry Cooper in the good ol' days in Bondi, probs when RB was there?. It's a small world in Sydney's Eastern suburbs amongst the Jewish community, it is a close knit European immigrant world where they all know each other, did business a bit a back scratching and helping each other out. I don't know Barry Cooper's coin and book collectables past but it could be a perfect money laundering opportunity, coins, stamps, gold, jewelry, books, antiques.
Barry Cooper's Stamps & Coins - Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Forum

Oh my, I got accountant wrong but Barry the book dealer/ stamp seller and purveyor of deceased estates sounds like quite opportunist in business dealings IMO a kindred spirit for RB???

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

T

Eyespywithmylittleeye, a very insightful post.

You've put everything I was thinking into words.


QUOTE="Eyespywithmylittleeye, post: 17523589, member: 302078"]I suspect the person she is now is not the person she was when meeting him. That person is gone and what’s left is the fallout of being involved with a man like him.

I don’t think any of us can truly judge what it would be like to be gaslighted for 40 years. But IMO I would be a broken shell of a person.

[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I want this man brought to justice if he has been involved with the disappearance of Marion but I am mindful of judging DdH or the children. D chose him as her husband it doesn’t mean she chose what she has had to endure.

Yes and lets not forget DdeH was with him with he is arrested the yr they go OS after getting married.
They return 2 yrs later yet immigration believe he was in and out of Aust during that time without DdeH.
She even lied at inquest saying she had not left Australia since 1986 but went OS in 1994 for daughters wedding.
They are all liars IMO

I think she misinterpreted the question and thought they meant to Belgium. I don’t think that was a deliberate lie

 

[MrsWattle]

Oh my, I got accountant wrong but Barry the book dealer/ stamp seller and purveyor of deceased estates sounds like quite opportunist in business dealings IMO a kindred spirit for RB???

I think Barry and RB might have had an office at 95 Tamar st, Ballina? Right next door to the accountant who is still at that address and also has an office in Armidale, NSW
At the inquest AC talked about the offices at 95 Tamar st Ballina,
Ballina Coin had a name change to Clarendon Hill Investments and you will find the same person working at Tamar st. on the ABN lookup details.

 

[MrsWattle]

Bit more info on Barry Cooper. He ran the coin swaps at Ballina RSL according to witness JO

Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquidation - Page 5 - Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Forum

 

[lrb66]

Was it Barry, the accountant or both that were mentioned at inquest??

 

[MrsWattle]

Double

 

[MrsWattle]

Was it Barry, the accountant or both that were mentioned at inquest??

Barry Cooper mentioned by JO and the address of office asked about by AC.
Accountants name as new owner of Ballina Coin/Clarendon hill.
Looks like Barry Cooper was a gambler according to the forum comments of people who know him . Hope Barry throws RB under a Bus today by calling and making a statement actually![/QUOTE]

 

[MrsWattle]

Barry Cooper president 1986 to 1988
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