Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[MrsWattle]

https://www.philas.net.au/clubs

Stamp clubs in Australia

 

[mishy66]

So I found the family of RGW on the fathers side.
As is always the case with this saga, it is another complex arm !
I have to wonder if there is some sort of rite of passage entering into this twilight zone with Wonks and the prerequisite is make sure you have a family that has aliases/family pet names/ multiple marriages/ and some sort of family secret!

I have double checked all the info over the past few days just to make sure.

But I can say that RGW Fathers side DID NOT come from any wealth. In fact it seems the opposite.
So that leaves me thinking either he had some sort of inheritance from his Uncle ( where he worked Andersons Meats) as the Uncle died before his mother....and as I posted up earlier the link showed his mother living with RGW and PW and at time of death a 'pensioner'. Or he won the Lotto!

No doubt he could have worked darn hard and accumulated all those exclusive suburban homes along the way .....
or something else was going on...

Anyways, R GORDON W father R PENROSE W was born into a family of about 12 siblings.

As we know R PENROSE W was a policeman for about 3 yrs and then moved into the butcher shop....a real womaniser he was....

Penrose's family were born in Cornwall, England. Hello British Passports for the W family!

William and Elizabeth Penrose born early 1800's had about 8 kids and they came out to the Central Goldfields Victoria.


One of their children:
Fanny / Frances Penrose - born 1849 St Blazey, Cornwall, England
death 1937 Caulfield South, Victoria
married
Charles Walker - born 1832
Ancestry Join

They had 12 kids ( that I have found thus far)
3rd last in that lineup was R PENROSE W - 17 Jan 1889 Maryborough, Victoria ( R GORDONS W father)

The father Chaz was on a breeding program until his early 60's He was a builder in his spare time.....

One of R PENROSE W brothers, Charles JNR, joined the forces so this may be why R GORDON W also joined - seems to be the thing in families at that time.... then followed his father into the meat market

R PENROSE W stayed as a butcher and married again, one year after the divorce ( desertion) from Caroline E Walker - 1938 ( RGW mother) - but had been with his 'new bride' many years prior...

Elsie Snr has a run in with the law about theft and both of them are in the courts for various things...seems to be a common thread ! - a news paper clipping... 1932 - NO. 1 JURY CAUSES. - (Before Mr. Justice James and juries,) SETTLEMENT ANNOUNCED. Weiss and another v Stuart Walker and Co. - The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) - 28 Jun 1932
and another regarding her run in with the law in which she takes action on.
The date 1928
WOMAN'S ARREST. - Claim for Damages. - The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954) - 29 Nov 1928

Here is where it gets really interesting:
RPW marries Elsie J W. 1939 - see attachment - confusing as his daughter is also named Elsie (Wynne).......
There are no children born to this "marriage".

There is another arm to this union and it involves the child we have not been able to find a birth notice for but it is not part of this case so I am leaving it out. *fill in blanks*


So how did RGW make his dough!?

 

[MrsWattle]

So I found the family of RGW on the fathers side.
As is always the case with this saga, it is another complex arm !
I have to wonder if there is some sort of rite of passage entering into this twilight zone with Wonks and the prerequisite is make sure you have a family that has aliases/family pet names/ multiple marriages/ and some sort of family secret!

I have double checked all the info over the past few days just to make sure.

But I can say that RGW Fathers side DID NOT come from any wealth. In fact it seems the opposite.
So that leaves me thinking either he had some sort of inheritance from his Uncle ( where he worked Andersons Meats) as the Uncle died before his mother....and as I posted up earlier the link showed his mother living with RGW and PW and at time of death a 'pensioner'. Or he won the Lotto!

No doubt he could have worked darn hard and accumulated all those exclusive suburban homes along the way .....
or something else was going on...

Anyways, R GORDON W father R PENROSE W was born into a family of about 12 siblings.

As we know R PENROSE W was a policeman for about 3 yrs and then moved into the butcher shop....a real womaniser he was....

Penrose's family were born in Cornwall, England. Hello British Passports for the W family!

William and Elizabeth Penrose born early 1800's had about 8 kids and they came out to the Central Goldfields Victoria.


One of their children:
Fanny / Frances Penrose - born 1849 St Blazey, Cornwall, England
death 1937 Caulfield South, Victoria
married
Charles Walker - born 1832
Ancestry Join

They had 12 kids ( that I have found thus far)
3rd last in that lineup was R PENROSE W - 17 Jan 1889 Maryborough, Victoria ( R GORDONS W father)

The father Chaz was on a breeding program until his early 60's He was a builder in his spare time.....

One of R PENROSE W brothers, Charles JNR, joined the forces so this may be why R GORDON W also joined - seems to be the thing in families at that time.... then followed his father into the meat market

R PENROSE W stayed as a butcher and married again, one year after the divorce ( desertion) from Caroline E Walker - 1938 ( RGW mother) - but had been with his 'new bride' many years prior...

Elsie Snr has a run in with the law about theft and both of them are in the courts for various things...seems to be a common thread ! - a news paper clipping... 1932 - NO. 1 JURY CAUSES. - (Before Mr. Justice James and juries,) SETTLEMENT ANNOUNCED. Weiss and another v Stuart Walker and Co. - The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) - 28 Jun 1932
and another regarding her run in with the law in which she takes action on.
The date 1928
WOMAN'S ARREST. - Claim for Damages. - The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954) - 29 Nov 1928

Here is where it gets really interesting:
RPW marries Elsie J W. 1939 - see attachment - confusing as his daughter is also named Elsie (Wynne).......
There are no children born to this "marriage".

There is another arm to this union and it involves the child we have not been able to find a birth notice for but it is not part of this case so I am leaving it out. *fill in blanks*


So how did RGW make his dough!?

Sausages!!
KEITH HENRY &CO. PTY. LTD. v. STUART WALKER &CO. PTY. LTD.

 

[car54]

Does anyone remember posting or seeing an incoming passenger card for a young woman. Her incoming address was to be at a place in Tamborine. I think she was a nanny. I recall tracing her to an accommodation site that mentioned "ye old passy". I never kept the reference and I'm having difficulty tracing her or the place now.

 

[centred]

I only suggested it because at that time, a non-assisted passage to Australia was very expensive whether by ship or aircraft. I had another look at the FD arrival card, seems the visa was issued in Brussels on 25nov1970 as a B2 Visitor visa, so accept it was unlikely he was working on the ship. Is there any evidence when and where he met the Walkers and Diane eg in UK or mainland Europe, any connection at all?

No ruby no proof but as with much of our speculating or opinions none have definitive proof , it was more a summarizing that he may well have met them before in the UK or Australia on previous visit , just a likely scenario , either or either he did meet her married and had a family with her , he is assumed for some reason not to be a person of some means besides a pension/s . I do not take any of this supposition as gospel when speculating , as this to me is limiting and creates unnecessary debate over details that do not matter in the whole scheme of what we are trying to ascertain .

For example I had relatives that had property in and around the North shore after the early 60 s and previously were farmers, shop keepers and rural land holders , not necessarily rich so to speak however i can only assume the grand children may have benefited if the properties in Sydney are still owned which i doubt but i doubt i could think they are all wealthy to this day or they did any dodgy deeds or that none are not on some sort of pension , some pensioners stil can have assets and cash .
So i make no assumptions on income and assets being proof of anything imo

 

[centred]

List of stamp forgers - Wikipedia

blum lol

EDIT
The Blum forgeries: 600 forged postmarks and expert marks.

Having a bit of time to go over some of the links from this morning and some are fascinating , I have some interesting follow up sub threads and links to other players similar to Blum , I may put some up if the interest is still relevant ?

 

[BabeBlues]

Does anyone remember posting or seeing an incoming passenger card for a young woman. Her incoming address was to be at a place in Tamborine. I think she was a nanny. I recall tracing her to an accommodation site that mentioned "ye old passy". I never kept the reference and I'm having difficulty tracing her or the place now.

The only thing I recall was this place at Tamborine that you shared a while back @car54 but I am not sure if this has any link to the woman you're speaking of or "ye old passy"?
4BR House Vacation Rental in Mount Tambourine, QLD #9100801 | AGreaterTown

 

[ruby925]

No ruby no proof but as with much of our speculating or opinions none have definitive proof , it was more a summarizing that he may well have met them before in the UK or Australia on previous visit , just a likely scenario , either or either he did meet her married and had a family with her , he is assumed for some reason not to be a person of some means besides a pension/s . I do not take any of this supposition as gospel when speculating , as this to me is limiting and creates unnecessary debate over details that do not matter in the whole scheme of what we are trying to ascertain .

For example I had relatives that had property in and around the North shore after the early 60 s and previously were farmers, shop keepers and rural land holders , not necessarily rich so to speak however i can only assume the grand children may have benefited if the properties in Sydney are still owned which i doubt but i doubt i could think they are all wealthy to this day or they did any dodgy deeds or that none are not on some sort of pension , some pensioners stil can have assets and cash .
So i make no assumptions on income and assets being proof of anything imo

From what we do know in evidence is that opening multiple fake bank accounts made up some of his income in those years.....

 

[centred]

From what we do know in evidence is that opening multiple fake bank accounts made up some of his income in those years.....

Yes and the rest haha so we can assume he may have the means to go on a cruise to Australia

 

[centred]

Yes I’m interested it was a lightbulb moment when @Carovb5 explained that PUBS is stamps.. in Belgium. Who knew! Knowing that in 1977 stamps and old books were obtained by wonka just adds to the fact that I think @Carovb5 is on a valid theory with Renov Pubs.
Looking at wonka.. his love of coins, what pubs means, old books obtained.. I think his interests are in antique collectables the sort that fit into luggage (I don’t mean furniture or large artworks)

Totally a light bulb for me too , I will send them later on as I am still going through and some might be more interesting then others

 

[BabeBlues]

Yes I’m interested it was a lightbulb moment when @Carovb5 explained that PUBS is stamps.. in Belgium. Who knew! Knowing that in 1977 stamps and old books were obtained by wonka just adds to the fact that I think @Carovb5 is on a valid theory with Renov Pubs.
Looking at wonka.. his love of coins, what pubs means, old books obtained.. I think his interests are in antique collectables the sort that fit into luggage (I don’t mean furniture or large artworks)

It was me that posted about PUBs being short for publicity stamps in Belgium. I had mentioned it a few threads ago but no one commented so I assumed it had already been explored and exhausted much earlier however when the latest thread started talking about stamps it got me thinking about Renov Rubs again. It seems a while ago most people thought it meant publishing but no one was really sure what it meant.

I don't know for a fact if Renov Pubs is actually related to stamp dealing, it is just a guess. Renov - restoring, Pubs - publicity stamps. Marketing these stamps perhaps?

 

[Carovb5]

Yes I’m interested it was a lightbulb moment when @Carovb5 explained that PUBS is stamps.. in Belgium. Who knew! Knowing that in 1977 stamps and old books were obtained by wonka just adds to the fact that I think @Carovb5 is on a valid theory with Renov Pubs.
Looking at wonka.. his love of coins, what pubs means, old books obtained.. I think his interests are in antique collectables the sort that fit into luggage (I don’t mean furniture or large artworks)

The credits aren’t for me, i wasn’t the one finding it. But i sure am searching around to see if i can find anything related to pubs, as i think that’s a very interesting find!

 

[MrsWattle]

@car54
Was it Maria Katharina READ (nee Blum)?

She arrived in Australia in January 1952 relocated soon after to Mount Tamborine 82 arthurs street 8/8/1953 then Yurnga Cottage 28/6/ 1954 https://agreatertown.com/australia_un/4br_house_vacation_rental_in_mount_tambourine_qld_0002668082




If so, I have found this on her so far if it helps.


Her documents say she is arriving alone and knows no one….

But there is also a Luobus BLUM on same ship – born 1915 – electrician single

Address J... Bendet - 171 Beaconfield Parade Northcote Victoria

NAA – Item ID 30133397 arrivals 10 Jan 1952

Maria Katharina Blum _ born Germany 27 December 1922

single - domestic – knows no one

passport 3889 issued 5 May 1951

departed from Genoa 13 Dec 1951 SS Cyrenia

arrived Aust 17 Jan 1952 melbourne

intended address in Aust – Leo George Boswell - Albury NSW

June 1952 married – William Henry Read - Roma

Naturalised 7 July 1952 ( states now married housewife living in Surat) Maria R Read

8 July Cert for Reg – “her marriage does not mean she acquires British Nationality – need to wait 12 mths”

8 August 1953 change of address – 82 Arthur St Roma - home duties

1 July 1954 – Nth Tambourine - occupation HomeDuties

2 August 1954 – Yurnga Cottage, Sth Tambourine - occupation chiropodist

1977 Electoral roll with hubby, Living in Monte st. North Tamborine. Occupation Beautician.

So many European families in Tamborine. All sorts of businesses

 

[Nnbee]

I wish there was a way we could access old container ship logs. If we could find any containers sent to Europe with MBs items. I wonder if LE can search all of wonkers aliases for the year of 1997.

 

[Laughing]

Ya'll are amazing. I can use US records well enough to make a little money as a genealogist.

That applause you hear is coming from the Midwest, in recognition of your research skills, your teamwork, and your drive to ensure answers for Sally!

So, so impressed!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[BonnieB]

I'll start the ball rolling with a portion of my timeline. Any thoughts, corrections or additions are welcome.

18/1/94 Marion purchased a home at 15 Merinda Court Ashmore for $180,000 to start her new role heading up the reception class at The Southport School.
1994 Ballina Coin Investments and DeHedervary Family Trust are set up by Vernon Paul Ware (Accountant) 95 Tamar St Ballina

1994 TWO trips overseas on JL this year
Q: Why was RB getting heavily discounted return JL fares? $300-400 return!

10/12/94 FERNAND NOCOLAS REMAKEL (Le Courrier Australien)

MALE, 47 years old, single, tall, dark, restrained, non-smoker, university, multi-home owner, quiet, multilingual person, warm, motivated, old school with qualities, morals being important, seeks queen of hearts free,B.C.B.G,view permanent relationship and/or marriage: M. F. Remakel, Box L51, LENNOX-HEAD, NSW 2478. Tel. (066) 864788.
The phone number has been linked to a premises leased by RB in Ballina in the name Ballina Coin Investments.
Q: Did Marion make contact by phone?

12/12/94 Marion's wallet was stolen from her unlocked car at the TSS school between 12th & 15th Dec. Her CC was later used at a S/Station and a person captured on CCTV
Q: Is this event connected to RB?

1995 FOUR trips overseas in this year on JL 20/10/95
Q: How many women answered his ad? Were other women taken overseas on these trips?

1996 MARION won the Queensland Teacher of Excellence Award. (Publicised) Took a trip to Tassie with her friend. Talked about a teaching job in SA. Seemed unhappy at TSS.

Late 1996 RB moved from Ballina to a larger house at 8 Rubiton St, WOLLONGBAH (about 45min drive west from Ballina on a gravel road) children at Ballina school and attending swimming after school. (family away from the house for predictable long periods of time)
Q: Was the move instigated by another victim living in or around Ballina?

Let's get to work sleuths...

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

It was me that posted about PUBs being short for publicity stamps in Belgium. I had mentioned it a few threads ago but no one commented so I assumed it had already been explored and exhausted much earlier however when the latest thread started talking about stamps it got me thinking about Renov Rubs again. It seems a while ago most people thought it meant publishing but no one was really sure what it meant.

I don't know for a fact if Renov Pubs is actually related to stamp dealing, it is just a guess. Renov - restoring, Pubs - publicity stamps. Marketing these stamps perhaps?

Oh bugger sorry @BabeBlues I thought it was @Carovb5 and yes I missed it the first time around and didn’t really get it until today. May not be stamp dealing but it seems to make more sense than publishing/publicity media or whatever the actual term is for Renov Pubs.

 

[Estelle]

I'll start the ball rolling with a portion of my timeline. Any thoughts, corrections or additions are welcome.

18/1/94 Marion purchased a home at 15 Merinda Court Ashmore for $180,000 to start her new role heading up the reception class at The Southport School.
1994 Ballina Coin Investments and DeHedervary Family Trust are set up by Vernon Paul Ware (Accountant) 95 Tamar St Ballina

1994 TWO trips overseas on JL this year
Q: Why was RB getting heavily discounted return JL fares? $300-400 return!

10/12/94 FERNAND NOCOLAS REMAKEL (Le Courrier Australien)

MALE, 47 years old, single, tall, dark, restrained, non-smoker, university, multi-home owner, quiet, multilingual person, warm, motivated, old school with qualities, morals being important, seeks queen of hearts free,B.C.B.G,view permanent relationship and/or marriage: M. F. Remakel, Box L51, LENNOX-HEAD, NSW 2478. Tel. (066) 864788.
The phone number has been linked to a premises leased by RB in Ballina in the name Ballina Coin Investments.
Q: Did Marion make contact by phone?

12/12/94 Marion's wallet was stolen from her unlocked car at the TSS school between 12th & 15th Dec. Her CC was later used at a S/Station and a person captured on CCTV
Q: Is this event connected to RB?

1995 FOUR trips overseas in this year on JL 20/10/95
Q: How many women answered his ad? Were other women taken overseas on these trips?

1996 MARION won the Queensland Teacher of Excellence Award. (Publicised) Took a trip to Tassie with her friend. Talked about a teaching job in SA. Seemed unhappy at TSS.

Early 1992 RB moved from Ballina to a larger house at 8 Rubiton St, WOLLONGBAH (about 45min drive west from Ballina on a gravel road) children at Ballina school and attending swimming after school. (family away from the house for predictable long periods of time)
Q: Was the move instigated by another victim living in or around Ballina?

Let's get to work sleuths...

@bonnie, I don't think "early 1992" is correct. I thought they rented the house in Wollongbar for 12 months from late 1996 to late 1997.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

The credits aren’t for me, i wasn’t the one finding it. But i sure am searching around to see if i can find anything related to pubs, as i think that’s a very interesting find!

Sorry about tagging you I got my sleuths mixed up

 

[BonnieB]

@bonnie, I don't think "early 1992" is correct. I thought they rented the house in Wollongbar for 12 months from late 1996 to late 1997.

Thanks Estelle, I will edit if I can.