Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[ruby925]

SL would know if Marion spoke French or at least learned it school - I can’t recall ever hearing this mentioned in TLV does anyone else remember if they have?

do agree with Estelle most people in Marions age group were taught at school but would love to know if that were the case. That Marion did definitely speak French.

I also suspect there was another person in 1995 that may have been a target by him.

I actually wondered if there were some in Japan. I have never really believed the discounted flight by a person who worked at the airline… so many flights you would remember their name wouldn’t you?

I don’t know if this case has been publicised at all in Japan but wonder if someone over there knows something of RB or possible a woman that was taken advantage of too… in the instance of Japanese culture I suspect that if there was a woman there she may not have told anyone.

also think the art centre meeting was truth and most likely coffee shop not at the gallery.

I think he did go to Marions house as he has said and it was then he saw, artworks and antiques.. right up his alley.

Re the JAL employee for the discounted flights, the 'I can't recall' the name response was used multiple times during the inquest evidence, particularly noticeable during the questions about aliases. IMO this is a fall-back response so that RB can later say I did not lie about this.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Just trying to understand why AC spent so much time on questions relating to the cheap air fares and why, as he put it "They came to a screeching halt on 31/7/97".

My guess is he is trying to understand why RB's last flight with JAL happened to be the trip he took with Marion. He had used it consistently up until then. However I am not sure what could have happened in relation to Marion as they didn't fly in or out together.

I don't think RB ever got cheap flights IMO.

It looks to me like he had a return ticket - same as the JO situation - but Marion did not, as she flew out on Korean and back on Cathy

 

[MrsWattle]

A thought... If RB was staying at the Nikko during a stopover in Japan, do the flight crew also stay at the same hotel? Could he have witnessed something incriminating for a JL employee? Could he possibly have been blackmailing someone? Drugs perhaps?

I think it's probably the best place for JAL staff to stay because JAL owned the Nikko Narita hotel in Tokyo.

 

[lrb66]

I am not sure it matters or not whether Marion spoke French or responded to the 1994 ad.
RB has admitted a relationship with her(Marion) and he has a link to that name. IMO that is not a causal link.
I am also interested in questions AC put to DdH
Re certain items of furniture in their home and it’s acquisition, and whether RB will also be asked about it when the inquest
resumes. I wonder who the furniture belongs to???
RB also said that he had visited TTS?? ( Marion’s school)In 1997
I think this is what he said??
I wonder why??

 

[Liselle]

I wonder if "our man of the moment" responded to this wanted advertisement in the "Dutch Weekly", 5 August, 1996. The year is when he was very busy; the nationality of the lady suitable; the age perfect; the travel overseas to order. (Info from Trove.) Just could be a conquest we are searching for, but with limited information, unable to followup. Just an interesting red herring.

 

[BonnieB]

I am not sure it matters or not whether Marion spoke French or responded to the 1994 ad.
RB has admitted a relationship with her(Marion) and he has a link to that name. IMO that is not a causal link.
I am also interested in questions AC put to DdH
Re certain items of furniture in their home and it’s acquisition, and whether RB will also be asked about it when the inquest
resumes. I wonder who the furniture belongs to???
RB also said that he had visited TTS?? ( Marion’s school)In 1997
I think this is what he said??
I wonder why??

Yes, I remember a dining table and a TV unit and I think there were other items. I assumed they were some of the furniture pieces in MB's container but maybe they were also associated with someone else and the reason they moved to Wollongbah. There was also a dinner set and figurines, all of which I'm sure, have been disposed of and someone, somewhere bought them from him.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Yes, I remember a dining table and a TV unit and I think there were other items. I assumed they were some of the furniture pieces in MB's container but maybe they were also associated with someone else and the reason they moved to Wollongbah. There was also a dinner set and figurines, all of which I'm sure, have been disposed of and someone, somewhere bought them from him.

I am wondering if her stuffs was sent to a local auction, I know we have discussed that it could have been sent overseas but I don't think RB would bother with the expense of that.

The man police spoke to whom was a coin / stamp dealer - (auctions) - I was wonder if he did general auctions as well, doubtful .. but I have been trying to find out if he did.

 

[gymtonic]

Just trying to understand why AC spent so much time on questions relating to the cheap air fares and why, as he put it "They came to a screeching halt on 31/7/97".

I know a lot of sleuths think that it it because something happened with RB that meant he couldn’t travel that route anymore but IMO it is possible that the JAL contact was a travel contact for OC and got moved on, discovered (insert other options) and that route was no longer viable. I look at other evidence of weird routing (NC to Tahiti to Hawaii to London (?) was one route mentioned and another coming in from Philippines) and IMO it makes no sense unless it is for another purpose rather than getting from A to B. If you have contacts to facilitate travel arrangements with different airlines then you go another route. For me that is why AC is asking this question. MOO

 

[KiwiNZ]

I know a lot of sleuths think that it it because something happened with RB that meant he couldn’t travel that route anymore but IMO it is possible that the JAL contact was a travel contact for OC and got moved on, discovered (insert other options) and that route was no longer viable. . MOO

I feel like RC was linking the last time he flew JAL with the trip back from the UK with Marion and how that was just another coincidence.

It could have been something as simple as, on the return trip someone remembering him from the outbound trip at the hotel and asking where his wife / girlfriend was that might have spooked him, he had gone to a lot of trouble to distance himself from Marion on the flights. I don't think RC knows the answer, just that its strange timing to stop the flights

I personal don't believe he got a discount, or had a contact, just more word salad from RB, he lies when its easier to tell the truth even when the truth would be less incriminating lol .. even his description of the man been a Director and sitting above the shop floor in Amsterdam airport was weird,

JMO

 

[ruby925]

I feel like RC was linking the last time he flew JAL with the trip back from the UK with Marion and how that was just another coincidence.

It could have been something as simple as, on the return trip someone remembering him from the outbound trip at the hotel and asking where his wife / girlfriend was that might have spooked him, he had gone to a lot of trouble to distance himself from Marion on the flights. I don't think RC knows the answer, just that its strange timing to stop the flights

I personal don't believe he got a discount, or had a contact, just more word salad from RB, he lies when its easier to tell the truth even when the truth would be less incriminating lol .. even his description of the man been a Director and sitting above the shop floor in Amsterdam airport was weird,

JMO

For me, that's the thing that made it plausible... the JAL Station Manager (not a Director but head of the station, in this case Amsterdam) would probably have been 'above the shop floor' on flight days. Checkin desks traditionally had steps up behind the desks to access a common walkway that also led to an area that was used by staff allocators, supervisors etc. So the scenario fits, but that doesn't mean that any of it was true obvs. All MOO

 

[gymtonic]

For me, that's the thing that made it plausible... the JAL Station Manager (not a Director but head of the station, in this case Amsterdam) would probably have been 'above the shop floor' on flight days. Checkin desks traditionally had steps up behind the desks to access a common walkway that also led to an area that was used by staff allocators, supervisors etc. So the scenario fits, but that doesn't mean that any of it was true obvs. All MOO

I guess there are 2 things he has to explain away with the flights:
1 The routes that he takes and
2 Where he gets the money to take all the trips

Her Honour made a very perceptive question when she asked him why it was necessary (whilst not cost effective!) to take JO to Europe when he could have wooed her in Australia. I keep looking at all these elements and just keep coming back to one scenario that links them. MOO

 

[Nnbee]

Yes @gymtonic that’s a very good point. The first answer that comes to mind could be that he thought it would be easier to sell their houses/ assets while they are overseas. There could be so many reasons though.


The JAL thing is fascinating. He could of easily said it is a cheaper ticket but he went on one of his long tangent stories.
I had a friend who was in a long distance relationship in the 2000s. She flew to the UK at least twice a year and often flew JAL. I think the ticket was about $500-$700 cheaper at that time.
A simple “ it’s the cheapest route “ would have been enough. Why the long story about the Meji coins? The Amsterdam office etc. Can remember all those details yet no name ?
I think there has to be some detail in that.

 

[BonnieB]

For me, that's the thing that made it plausible... the JAL Station Manager (not a Director but head of the station, in this case Amsterdam) would probably have been 'above the shop floor' on flight days. Checkin desks traditionally had steps up behind the desks to access a common walkway that also led to an area that was used by staff allocators, supervisors etc. So the scenario fits, but that doesn't mean that any of it was true obvs. All MOO

Having flown in and out of Amsterdam dozens of times, RB would have been very familiar with the layout of the airport and airline offices so his wordy description of where his "director" was located was nothing more than a distraction from his inability to name the director.
As a con-man, this redirection tactic probably serves him well whenever he is asked awkward direct questions. He just waffles on, hoping the questioner will be led in a different direction. AC constantly has to pull him back on track. He then says "I don't recall".

 

[BonnieB]

Yes @gymtonic that’s a very good point. The first answer that comes to mind could be that he thought it would be easier to sell their houses/ assets while they are overseas. There could be so many reasons though.


The JAL thing is fascinating. He could of easily said it is a cheaper ticket but he went on one of his long tangent stories.
I had a friend who was in a long distance relationship in the 2000s. She flew to the UK at least twice a year and often flew JAL. I think the ticket was about $500-$700 cheaper at that time.
A simple “ it’s the cheapest route “ would have been enough. Why the long story about the Meji coins? The Amsterdam office etc. Can remember all those details yet no name ?
I think there has to be some detail in that.

I think AC said his flights were $300-400 return with JAL. That's a HUGE discount on the normal rate.
RB tried to deflect by saying he often flew "one-way" but AC immediately corrected him, saying the prices were for return tickets.
LE know how much he was paying! So now he has to explain why, hence the Meiji and mysterious director story

 

[gymtonic]

Having flown in and out of Amsterdam dozens of times, RB would have been very familiar with the layout of the airport and airline offices so his wordy description of where his "director" was located was nothing more than a distraction from his inability to name the director.
As a con-man, this redirection tactic probably serves him well whenever he is asked awkward direct questions. He just waffles on, hoping the questioner will be led in a different direction. AC constantly has to pull him back on track. He then says "I don't recall".

You know, we all keep laughing at how farcical and unbelievable his stories and fabrications are….which could also be a double bluff… tell an obviously farcical story to distract from what “they” (LE a or us) think is the story, when it’s really a diversion from a truth that is really much bigger or more devious?! LOL I’ve seen too many movies with plot twists and it’s getting to me!

 

[ruby925]

Having flown in and out of Amsterdam dozens of times, RB would have been very familiar with the layout of the airport and airline offices so his wordy description of where his "director" was located was nothing more than a distraction from his inability to name the director.
As a con-man, this redirection tactic probably serves him well whenever he is asked awkward direct questions. He just waffles on, hoping the questioner will be led in a different direction. AC constantly has to pull him back on track. He then says "I don't recall".

I think his 'I don't recall' is exactly the opposite..he does recall but doesn't want to say anything that may enable further investigation....and in any further court appearances, he will not have lied (in his opinion) IMO.[/QUOTE]

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Sally didn't seem to know if she spoke French but there has been a few comments from past pupils saying that Marion taught them French at school, so I am going to guess she knew a bit to get by.

My own view not shared by all is that Marion never saw the FR ad in 1994. It was such a niche obscure French monthly publication in Australia and Marion’s French was limited. Would she even bother looking at a publication where she wouldn’t understand much of it and find a lonely hearts ad inside also in French?

If she had seen it in 1994 why would it have taken 3 years for the sting to occur? We know Marion’s behaviour started to change in late 1996 and IMHO Mr aka was frequenting public places such as the Arts Centre prowling for single middle-aged women. For example if Marion was sitting alone having a coffee would she object to a similar aged French speaking charmer asking if he could sit at the same table as her? It could be as simple as that.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

My own view not shared by all is that Marion never saw the FR ad in 1994. It was such a niche obscure French monthly publication in Australia and Marion’s French was limited. Would she even bother looking at a publication where she wouldn’t understand much of it and find a lonely hearts ad inside also in French?

If she had seen it in 1994 why would it have taken 3 years for the sting to occur? We know Marion’s behaviour started to change in late 1996 and IMHO Mr aka was frequenting public places such as the Arts Centre prowling for single middle-aged women. For example if Marion was sitting alone having a coffee would she object to a similar aged French speaking charmer asking if he could sit at the same table as her? It could be as simple as that.

These are my thoughts too. I think if anything the article in the newspaper about Marion led him to her. Then an accidental meeting at the arts centre.
I don’t believe it was the Remakel ad either.

 

[Meligator]

Regarding the flight, if there were a real, non-nefarious explanation--I believe RB would have provided it. But he provides some plausible hypothesized explanations. There are a couple of things interesting about JAL. First, his prior JAL trips were booked as round trips. The one with Marion was not. So, it was unique in that regard. After Marion goes missing, he completely abandons his regular travel routine JAL AND he "loses" his FR driver's license. From a legal standpoint, there is actually no hard evidence tying RB & Marion together overseas. These details provide some circumstantial evidence that RB acted suspiciously surrounding Marion's disappearance.

 

[ruby925]

These are my thoughts too. I think if anything the article in the newspaper about Marion led him to her. Then an accidental meeting at the arts centre.
I don’t believe it was the Remakel ad either.

Agreed. However, turned out that the ad was significant, because that led to RB, connected by the surname taken by MB. If the surname had been Smith or Brown, unlikely RB would ever have been found. I hope the authorities have more info/aliases to probe when the inquest resumes.