Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[mishy66]

Presuming this is the same WW that later becomes RB and dates tally etc.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Another good possibility @Itsapuzzle. Located just 1 door down from Market St and possibly with rear access to Market via a corridor. Ad published in 1959.
Alexanders was still trading in 1993 under different management, so the coffee lounge was around for about 30 years.

Advertising - The Australian Jewish Times (Sydney, NSW : 1953 - 1990) - 23 Oct 1959

View attachment 340626

Interesting, and I like that it's referred to as "coffee lounge" in building works docs, but still thinking it was a bit of a walk away from Pitt Street. I could be wrong though.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Similar in UK. What I don't really get is that RB could join the Gendarmerie when he already had a criminal record? Presuming this is the same WW that later becomes RB and dates tally etc.

I don't know anything about the gendarmerie, but I did note RB said it was called the Royal Gendarmerie then, so would that be something different from the military gendarmerie - maybe just the horseback riders for the pomp and circumstance events were in the royal gendarmerie?

 

[BonnieB]

Interesting, and I like that it's referred to as "coffee lounge" in building works docs, but still thinking it was a bit of a walk away from Pitt Street. I could be wrong though.

It's on the corner of Pitt & Market Sts and one block from George St, where the Courrier office was located before their move to Kent St. I'm pretty convinced that it was in this general area somewhere and Alexanders ticks all boxes.
Like I said, I gave up before due to the uncertainty of WW testimony...how much is true, how much is fantasy?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

It's on the corner of Pitt & Market Sts and one block from George St, where the Courrier office was located before their move to Kent St. I'm pretty convinced that it was in this general area somewhere and Alexanders ticks all boxes.
Like I said, I gave up before due to the uncertainty of WW testimony...how much is true, how much is fantasy?

Could be right there BonnieB, but RB didn't get back into Australia till '74. He did work for AAP in George Street as a photographer then, it is alleged. I've put in a request for some telephone page copies from an old phone book but haven't heard back yet, maybe never will, but in there trying

 

[ruby925]

I don't know anything about the gendarmerie, but I did note RB said it was called the Royal Gendarmerie then, so would that be something different from the military gendarmerie - maybe just the horseback riders for the pomp and circumstance events were in the royal gendarmerie?

i had a quick Google, shows the Royal Gendarmerie Academy was the training school for the Gendarmerie, and that it was more of a para military organisation in the time that WW would have been there, but yes, they did have the riders and the full dress uniforms etc. With the military emphasis, a petty criminal record may not have been an obstacle to joining?

 

[DK007]

DKoo7 it resumes on Wednesday 27 April, commencing at 10 am at the Byron Local Court. It's booked in for three days.

Thank you

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I'm glad you listened to it. You're right - the timeline seems very clear from that podcast when you hear it distilled like that.
I'm in the camp that thinks that it was Marion who came back to Australia, so hearing a clear summary of the key timings really brought in to focus for me the date of Owen's birthday (so close after the final lump sum of money being withdrawn) and how I suspect sadly she was no longer alive by his birthday.
IMO

I've now heard Part 2 of THE PROSECUTORS podcast on Marion and their conjecture about what may have happened. It is persuasive! -- I've long wondered if, Marion toward the end of her life, contacted Owen. For help? Out of desperation? Thinking he would be sympathetic or non-judgemental. This is not blaming him. It is merely MHO because of Owen's suicide and the proximity of his birthday. It's always risky to call on a child for help. That's not a child's role in life, and a needy parent is difficult to bear. What if Owen knew a little, but not all, and ended up rejecting Marion at the end? That knowledge would have plagued him to the end of his days.

So I'm more Websleuths than "Prosecutors." With my wild theory! I loved how they kept harping on primary sources. (And their rationale for why it was Marion who came back to Australia. ) Always a good thing to remember in life and crime. Witnesses are always suspect. Thank you again @Penguinpoet and @brjakj.

 

[BonnieB]

This is interesting to me @Viveka
Given he is here 1969 / 1970 with IK

I found a place that I feel sits with the cafe scene he would be use to ..
Lincoln Coffee Lounge & Cafe, Rowe Street, Sydney - John Barry, proprietor

Vanished Sydney

It was demolished in the early 1970's - it is about a 4 min walk from the Le Courrier in George Street.
I found it was situated at 51 Rowe Street - behind Australia Hotel

Rowe Street | The Dictionary of Sydney

Rowe-Street - Sydney Mail (NSW : 1912 - 1938) - 19 Aug 1931

http://www.historyofsydney.com.au/rowe-street-sydney/

The photographs of the 1950s are really something!

Dick Preston, radio, film-maker, April 1951 from Lincoln Coffee Lounge & Cafe, Rowe Street, Sydney / photographed by Brian Bird

There is also Jericho’s upstairs restaurant in Rowe Street - a fav with students
A Table of Delights: The First Fifty Years of the Wine and Food Society of NSW (1939-1989) - Stunning Wines & Amazing Deals

Both sit in amongst all the 'rellies' and 'friends' of today...

What an interesting street that must have been in its heyday @mishy66. All the artists and bohemian, quirky folk have moved on to suburbs like Glebe. Rowe Street, or what's left of it, is just a sterile walkway now. They call it 'progress'!!

 

[Penguinpoet]

I've now heard Part 2 of THE PROSECUTORS podcast on Marion and their conjecture about what may have happened. It is persuasive! -- I've long wondered if, Marion toward the end of her life, contacted Owen. For help? Out of desperation? Thinking he would be sympathetic or non-judgemental. This is not blaming him. It is merely MHO because of Owen's suicide and the proximity of his birthday. It's always risky to call on a child for help. That's not a child's role in life, and a needy parent is difficult to bear. What if Owen knew a little, but not all, and ended up rejecting Marion at the end? That knowledge would have plagued him to the end of his days.

So I'm more Websleuths than "Prosecutors." With my wild theory! I loved how they kept harping on primary sources. (And their rationale for why it was Marion who came back to Australia. ) Always a good thing to remember in life and crime. Witnesses are always suspect. Thank you again @Penguinpoet and @brjakj.

Interesting! I'll try to listen to the second part tonight. I'll be really intrigued to see if their belief that Marion returned to Australia aligns with my thoughts that she did. With his birthday so close to the last withdrawal I wondered whether Marion was planning a 'big reveal' to her family - along with a birthday surprise: I'm back and have met a wonderful man after a whirlwind romance... JMO

 

[Carovb5]

Hate to be the one asking this, but have there ever been Jane Does ruled out against Marion? i couldn’t find any, but that can be because i live in another country (some AUS websites don’t work here).
Thanks in advance!!

 

[KiwiNZ]

Hate to be the one asking this, but have there ever been Jane Does ruled out against Marion? i couldn’t find any, but that can be because i live in another country (some AUS websites don’t work here).
Thanks in advance!!

Sally only gave them her DNA a few years ago ( as part of the podcast pushing for answers) they ruled out one set of remains found in Ballina (?) but I think there is such a backload of the unidentified in Aus that it's taking years to get through them, There is a now a team dedicated to working through the unidentified remains in Aus but its a slow process.

New DNA program to identify remains of missing loved ones (9news.com.au)

 

[Meligator]

Not sure if these things have anything to do with Marion, but noticed that RB made significant efforts to (1) deny he was in Lille after leaving JO in UK and (2) deny ownership of Renov Pubs. Both seem clear lies. I wonder the significance of those two things regarding his crimes. What happened in Lille that he wants to distance himself from? What is the purpose of his company?

 

[mishy66]

.....With his birthday so close to the last withdrawal I wondered whether Marion was planning a 'big reveal' to her family - along with a birthday surprise: I'm back and have met a wonderful man after a whirlwind romance... JMO

Personally I dont think so.

 

[mishy66]

Not sure if these things have anything to do with Marion, but noticed that RB made significant efforts to (1) deny he was in Lille after leaving JO in UK and (2) deny ownership of Renov Pubs. Both seem clear lies. I wonder the significance of those two things regarding his crimes. What happened in Lille that he wants to distance himself from? What is the purpose of his company?

What is even MORE interesting is that Renov Pubs has had a "cleanup" on April 5.

But luckily for SL team, many sleuths have screenshot the original business 'associates ' .

 

[MrsWattle]

Visiting the Lille Braderie Flea Market

Lille Braderie Flea Market, biggest vintage and antique market in Europe. The market sellers with extensive storage facilities bursting with valuables, antiques and collectibles. Rare items and treasures worth a fortune! RB said Aussies don't know about valuable coins, artifacts.
He probably mixed with all sorts of people, very wealthy Sydney Eastern Suburbs,Vaucluse, Bellevue Hill, Chusan passengers etc, and visited art galleries, exhibitions, museums and homes of wealthy collectors, and had connections to sellers in Lille. That combination alone is a recipe for making a fortune!

RB spoke about markets in Northern Rivers North Coast NSW Markets, Lismore Car Boot, Channon, Bangalow, Pottsville.
When travelling, Coins and other small trinkets in his own lockable briefcase and the rest in bags of other names? perhaps he Set up mules or used other people's bags at airport and forwarded them back via his address.
A container load of "books" that he mentions at inquest sent to Australia. and Marions "missing" storage container from Southport. IMO All these are clues to his "treasure hunting life"
I have wondered for so long where HIS storage facility may be located,
On the move to so many homes addresses around Australia and the world, surely there would be a basecamp or storage facility or farm shed somewhere? He might have a network of people selling at shops and markets for him, for example one sells records and clothes, another sells furniture. IMO He sells the small valuables and offloads the rest. Within network of antique and vintage dealers, markets and shop contacts up the east coast of Australia, and all over the world.
I imagine Marion loved his knowledge of Pre-Colombian, coins, art and antiques. He loved the adoration and it boosted his ego. The secrets and mystery were all part of his game. It's a classic narcissist trait to isolate a victim to gain full control, he practiced that on others all his life. Preying on vulnerable women. His hidden GREED being exposed and the blackmail threats, and ridiculous false allegations to try to ruin his victims lives.
Don't forget He is a Multi-home owner according to his le Courrier Australien ad.

4 more days!

 

[MrsWattle]

Save the date: Grande Braderie de Lille 2015

I wanted to put some old photos up of the Lille markets but I think you get the picture. A dealers paradise. Lille!

Luxembourg = Banking - tax free haven/ hidden accounts.

 

[mishy66]

Visiting the Lille Braderie Flea Market

Lille Braderie Flea Market, biggest vintage and antique market in Europe. The market sellers with extensive storage facilities bursting with valuables, antiques and collectibles. Rare items and treasures worth a fortune! RB said Aussies don't know about valuable coins, artifacts.
He probably mixed with all sorts of people, very wealthy Sydney Eastern Suburbs,Vaucluse, Bellevue Hill, Chusan passengers etc, and visited art galleries, exhibitions, museums and homes of wealthy collectors, and had connections to sellers in Lille. That combination alone is a recipe for making a fortune!

RB spoke about markets in Northern Rivers North Coast NSW Markets, Lismore Car Boot, Channon, Bangalow, Pottsville.
When travelling, Coins and other small trinkets in his own lockable briefcase and the rest in bags of other names? perhaps he Set up mules or used other people's bags at airport and forwarded them back via his address.
A container load of "books" that he mentions at inquest sent to Australia. and Marions "missing" storage container from Southport. IMO All these are clues to his "treasure hunting life"
I have wondered for so long where HIS storage facility may be located,
On the move to so many homes addresses around Australia and the world, surely there would be a basecamp or storage facility or farm shed somewhere? He might have a network of people selling at shops and markets for him, for example one sells records and clothes, another sells furniture. IMO He sells the small valuables and offloads the rest. Within network of antique and vintage dealers, markets and shop contacts up the east coast of Australia, and all over the world.
I imagine Marion loved his knowledge of Pre-Colombian, coins, art and antiques. He loved the adoration and it boosted his ego. The secrets and mystery were all part of his game. It's a classic narcissist trait to isolate a victim to gain full control, he practiced that on others all his life. Preying on vulnerable women. His hidden GREED being exposed and the blackmail threats, and ridiculous false allegations to try to ruin his victims lives.
Don't forget He is a Multi-home owner according to his le Courrier Australien ad.

4 more days!

On the money there @MrsWattle !

I have also found something else about storage sheds etc that I have sent to TLV

 

[KiwiNZ]

I know it's said that it was not possible for Marion to have made the phone call and also boarded a flight, but I think the call between Sally and her mum may have been the 31st July not the 1st August, mainly because I don't think a mother would wait a further 24hrs from the first call to confirm their child wasn't caught up in the disaster, my timeline leaves me with 6 extra hours, with the assumption the flight took 30hrs London to Brisbane.

Sally got home on the 31st, so I would assume mid day or late and the message was on the answer phone.

Have I missed something is there anything to sway the phone call to the 1st of August not the 31 of July, other than Sally's recollection

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I've never heard of any, apart from the Ballina one.

Hate to be the one asking this, but have there ever been Jane Does ruled out against Marion? i couldn’t find any, but that can be because i live in another country (some AUS websites don’t work here).
Thanks in advance!!