Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

With him as a silent partner perhaps?

I think the purpose of transferring and then doing just a name change may be that it’s cheaper than to establish a whole new company from scratch

 

[Hardy12]

Does anyone know why RB is allowed to read the brief of evidence? In this case he knew that Sally had told police that Marion told her she had met the man in the car with her at McDonald’s at the arts centre? If he wasn’t privy to this evidence he may not have felt he had any reason to not state that he had in fact met her there and not made up the story of their first meeting? I don’t understand the legal reasoning for anyone being able to read evidence before questioning as it just allows them to construct stories?

 

[gymtonic]

I just want to add some queries and sticking points for me (in red below on quote)

Please take the following for what it is: my own imagination filling in the details of this case. I go out on a limb with my thoughts. Here is what I see in my mind:

Marion responds to an ad placed by a Mr. Remakel. RB notes her details and eventually he gets around to contacting her. He love-bombs her for weeks/months. Marion is swept up in romantic possibilities. Because RB is a nasty little AH, he causes Marion distress by way of her beloved profession. Then leans on her to make good with all their romantic plans because it is “you and me against the world.”
All very possible

In a hurry Marion sells her house for less than she paid, walks away from her career position, (commits to the relationship by changing her name and passport-I believe she did this on her own without RB’s knowledge-the fact is this action led to finding RB and he is too devious to have allowed this breadcrumb trail).
Could be, or alternatively it's not a mistake he usually makes, but in this instance he really fantasises that he has "re-born" MC and it will work and makes a fatal error and is involved in the name change and actively facilitates it.

RB sets up flights in tandem. They will never be connected to each other. Then the luggage storage trick at the airport, his usual m.o. He has her documents. He has control. Marion goes to the UK and waits for him, filling in the lonely hours with shopping, driving around a small area, and writing postcards.
It is his usual MO to fly separately but then again he reverted to doing so with JO, so maybe it so that he can go to Japan to do some "other business" (IMO he has always been running more than one scam at the same time and maybe a Japan "job" is to get himself some interim/ operating money?). I also feel that at this point MB is not lonely and whiling away the time but is actually excited for what is happening and looking forward to meeting up again. MB's postcards give me the sense of excitement and enjoyment and adventures rather than sad and lonely.

But! Disaster for RB. He gets to the UK and discovers she has changed her name. The papers he possesses use the Barter name. He meant to transfer her Australian bank accounts to Europe under her Barter name. He considers using her new Remakel identity to get the money. It’s convenient, he has to admit. But very dangerous. He is too cautious to let this kind of unpredictable event slip him up.

RB feels extremely angry by this foolish woman and her silly romantic notions. In the UK his mask drops and he shows Marion that he is not to be trifled with. He is angry and frustrated but he sees a way it could work. He announces he is returning to Australia, with or without her. If she really loves him then she knows where he is. He leaves Marion behind but he has her documents.
Not sure...maybe it is actually AKA who at this point realises that MB is not the reincarnated MC and suddenly sees the danger at what he has put in train? Too independent, not as easily fooled in close quarters (noting before this that any contact has been long-distance, sporadic, and short and extended contact reveals other aspects of a person't personality). MB may still be oblivious to the real AKA, but he may be disillusioned that "all women are the same" and not like my "madonna" MC? He may then revert to his usual romance scam pattern?

Marion is utterly miserable and has to make yet another fast decision, without time to really think about what is happening to her. It’s all so overwhelming. She is also beginning to feel that she might have a bit of a mess with her closest and dearest relationships back in Australia. Yes, she will return to try to make things good with RB again. But she will have to deal with the problem of trying to explain to her family the process which she has undergone in the last few months. It’s all happened so fast, and she can barely explain it to herself. Truthfully, she feels confused, befuddled, lost at sea. It is kind of embarrassing. She usually lives her life carefully, pursuing her dreams but in an ordered progression.

She decides to follow RB back, because he has instilled in her an insecurity which can’t be ignored; her lifelong dream of taking The Orient Express can’t be enjoyed anymore and all of her plans of travelling were with him.

She is not quite ready to tell anyone what she is suffering. She instinctively knows that if she were to divulge her situation to someone close then her relationship with RB would effectively end. It just would. And he has impressed upon her that his affection is contingent on her discretion, that he is very private, etc. So being a decent person, Marion doesn’t want to betray him. Not yet.

On her way back to Australia, Marion makes contact with Sally. She doesn’t want to talk about her situation, she just wants to hear her daughter’s voice.
My alternative reality is that she is still oblivious and maybe doesn't even know that AKA has gone back to the UK and still has plans to meet him in Amsterdam and the OE. This is based on my strong feeling that the phone call was made from TW as she said. Reasoning: it was from a payphone and it is less likely that MB would have coins from a transit country to put in a payphone at an airport. As I understand it there was no background noise on the call of airport announcements of departures and information. Having been in many airports you can hardly go 30 seconds without and announcement. Stop-over hotel? yes, maybe but the foreign coin issue stands and calls from hotels are often charged to room bill. Anyway, for me the post 2 August postmarked postcards and the call timing and location in TW make me feel MB is still in UK. How do I explain the FNMR passport entering Australia? Well, as I said I feel he runs several scams simultaneously and it may be that a passport is sold on for illegal immigration scam. Maybe, AKA has already suggested that they will both have to change names again? this is all very speculative and sketchy and MOO.
Also unless she is a really good actress, it is really hard to hide some sort of clue in your voice from family on phone calls?

Marion makes her way down to Byron Bay, the nearest town to RB with decent accomodation. Here, they will work things out, she hopes. RB convinces Marion to withdraw cash, the maximum allowed every day.
But Marion discovers Diane. Diane, who has made her bed long ago and knows what she’s got. What a disgusting revelation for Marion. She is shocked and devastated.
I am still on the fence whether MB returned and she may still be oblivious to the scam happening on Oz at this point. I have a very wild theory with no evidence whatsoever that something happened to MB in the UK, or Europe. Whether AKA is involved or knows he is opportunistic and with no one around to catch him he gets hold of the money. Slack bank processes and/or contacts facilitate this IMO.

Marion confronts RB. No more money for him, she says. Or: what have you done with the money I have already given to you?

He is knee-deep in illicit funds, yet too much is never enough. He can see the finish line and has other prospects he needs to get on to. There is also the question of her name change and new passport. It nags at him. A rare loose end. He has an encyclopaedic memory for details and he knows this one thing is going to haunt him if he doesn’t do something.

Marion loved her family, her friends, and her chosen profession. She wouldn’t leave them without explanation. I feel she was moving herself back to her family and eventually would have moved on from RB. Absolutely!

What happened to Marion? ?????

And on a personal note I lived on the Gold Coast at the same time as Marion and wish I’d known her. I really want to see Justice done for Marion. Hear! Hear!

 

[KiwiNZ]

Does anyone know why RB is allowed to read the brief of evidence? In this case he knew that Sally had told police that Marion told her she had met the man in the car with her at McDonald’s at the arts centre? If he wasn’t privy to this evidence he may not have felt he had any reason to not state that he had in fact met her there and not made up the story of their first meeting? I don’t understand the legal reasoning for anyone being able to read evidence before questioning as it just allows them to construct stories?

RB was given Sally's along with everyone else statement, Sally was also given RB's statement before the inquest - he was a "witness" as were the other.

I agree it gave him a chance to twist everything but it is the law.

 

[gymtonic]

Does anyone remember in the early days of the inquest, I think it might of been in the Feb days, I think it was AC asked RB if he had ever been to the Villeroy and Boch factory? and he said no?
Does anyone else remember? I wish there was transcripts we could search.

I remember something because I searched and found that V and B have the contract to supply dinnerware for the Orient Express and one of the V and B patterns was called Florabella. I couldn't get a strong connection that this specific pattern was used at that time or not.

 

[SamintheSak]

Still catching up on the inquest, and am abhorred by his contradictory statements.

On the upside we have the gem of "You are a song in a man's testicles" from his love letter to MC.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Whats even scarier is the fact MC said she wants nothing to do with him and RB said he always thought MC was his best friend even up to this day.
Terrifying.

Oh god. Reading that sent a shiver up my spine.

 

[mishy66]

Does anyone remember in the early days of the inquest, I think it might of been in the Feb days, I think it was AC asked RB if he had ever been to the Villeroy and Boch factory? and he said no?
Does anyone else remember? I wish there was transcripts we could search.

I was only thinking about this today myself. I will go back and see if I can find it.

 

[mishy66]

I remember something because I searched and found that V and B have the contract to supply dinnerware for the Orient Express and one of the V and B patterns was called Florabella. I couldn't get a strong connection that this specific pattern was used at that time or not.

At the end of 2010 those responsible at the Orient-Express were looking for a suitable partner to equip the dining cars on the Venice Simplon-Orient-Express and initially approached a number of porcelain manufacturers, including Villeroy & Boch. The Hotel & Restaurant Division from Villeroy & Boch, which specialises in such individual projects, was delighted to take up the challenge and successfully convinced the decision-makers with décors that fulfill the high artistic standards of the art deco interiors.

Villeroy & Boch and Orient Express: A Brand Match of Style & Perfection | TabletopJournal

 

[BonnieB]

Does anyone remember in the early days of the inquest, I think it might of been in the Feb days, I think it was AC asked RB if he had ever been to the Villeroy and Boch factory? and he said no?
Does anyone else remember? I wish there was transcripts we could search.

I don't recall RB denying he was there, but I do recall him saying that he visited the factory with MC who knew someone of importance at the company.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Does anyone know why RB is allowed to read the brief of evidence? In this case he knew that Sally had told police that Marion told her she had met the man in the car with her at McDonald’s at the arts centre? If he wasn’t privy to this evidence he may not have felt he had any reason to not state that he had in fact met her there and not made up the story of their first meeting? I don’t understand the legal reasoning for anyone being able to read evidence before questioning as it just allows them to construct stories?

Yes, Casselden asked RB several times if he received the brief of evidence and read it, and RB agreed.
It was only this week that RB claims to not have read or remembered the entire document.

I believe there are two things going on here:

1. When police first contacted RB at his home and asked him questions, and RB made his first written statement the next day, RB had no idea what police had on him. He hadn't seen the brief of evidence. So he had to quickly come up with a story.

Police then met with him several more times for in-depth questioning at the station, and the story started developing and changing.

Then before the inquest, RB was given the brief of evidence, that includes his own statements.

When the inquest started, he tried to pretend the initial police interviews and statement didn't happen, and has been trying to concoct a bunch of other stories ever since. None of this has gone unnoticed by Casselden or Coroner.

The key to all this is that police take statements BEFORE you receive any evidence and notice when you change your story. It's a classic red flag for deceit.

2. I suspect giving him access to the brief before the inquest has a silver lining. It shows that despite having the evidence in front of him, including his own words, he compulsively lies and keeps trying to con the court. And if that is what he does in court under oath, you can image what he does to his victims. IMO.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Does anyone remember in the early days of the inquest, I think it might of been in the Feb days, I think it was AC asked RB if he had ever been to the Villeroy and Boch factory? and he said no?
Does anyone else remember? I wish there was transcripts we could search.

I don't recall RB denying he was there, but I do recall him saying that he visited the factory with MC who knew someone of importance at the company.

Agree, RB actually volunteered the info that he went there with MC!

I remember being shocked because we know that 'Florabella' is one of their patterns AND that Marion owned fine china (it's never been confirmed if she owned V&B).

At the time I thought more would come of it and that maybe RB was covering himself, in case police found any of Marion's V&B associated with him.

Edit: on 16 Feb, I posted during RB testimony about MC: "Notice he mentioned going to the Villeroy and Boch factory with her?"

 

[BonnieB]

I think we all agree that MC, GGB, JO & Marion are not the only female victims of this psychopath's love scams (1995 trips OS after the Le Courrier ad in particular) I genuinely fear for the fate of others who may have confronted him or threatened exposure. IMO he is a very dangerous individual.

 

[gymtonic]

At the end of 2010 those responsible at the Orient-Express were looking for a suitable partner to equip the dining cars on the Venice Simplon-Orient-Express and initially approached a number of porcelain manufacturers, including Villeroy & Boch. The Hotel & Restaurant Division from Villeroy & Boch, which specialises in such individual projects, was delighted to take up the challenge and successfully convinced the decision-makers with décors that fulfill the high artistic standards of the art deco interiors.

Villeroy & Boch and Orient Express: A Brand Match of Style & Perfection | TabletopJournal

Yes, that is indeed what I was searching (and found) earlier but I came to the conclusion by the looks of the dates of the Florabella line (1990 - 94) it would not have been on the OE in 1997.

Subsequently, my working theory that I was investigating was that AKA had been on the OE prior (ie during 1990 - 94) and had regaled MB with stories of the opulence (and conflated it with the V and B Florabella range), so that could be when the link to the name was. At this inquest he was asked if he had been on the OE and said he hadn't, but then (true to his trait of over-explaining when things are tricky) went on to say that he had seen the OE when he was a child in Brussels station. My comment a few days ago was that, to my knowledge, the OE has never had a route through Brussels. So maybe this is a "clue" that he indeed go on the OE at some stage, and perhaps he even went to Switzerland (at some point between 90 and 94, not 1968. but conflating old stories again) via the OE. The link there being that the ("Google" train) as I posted earlier (YouTube vid) was likely the train from Aigle (which is on the Simplon ligne) to Leysin . The Aigle train fits his description of catching the [Google] train to Leysin station and catching the ski-lift to the chalets (see the YouTube vid again). He has a trait to take stories of things he may genuinely have done from other time periods and fit them elsewhere for convenience and apparent detailed knowledge.

We are all pretty sure that the Switzerland "recuperating" in 1968 is a false timeline. The "horse accident" happened in 1960 (and this is documented in a medical report in the NAA files along with the details of injuries (tib/fib, noted completely healed and no deformities) and yet he is also claiming double skull fractures from it too!

It is all IMO and tenuous linking, but as a working theory is as good as anything else!

 

[BonnieB]

Yes, that is indeed what I was searching (and found) earlier but I came to the conclusion by the looks of the dates of the Florabella line (1990 - 94) it would not have been on the OE in 1997.

Subsequently, my working theory that I was investigating was that AKA had been on the OE prior (ie during 1990 - 94) and had regaled MB with stories of the opulence (and conflated it with the V and B Florabella range), so that could be when the link to the name was. At this inquest he was asked if he had been on the OE and said he hadn't, but then (true to his trait of over-explaining when things are tricky) went on to say that he had seen the OE when he was a child in Brussels station. My comment a few days ago was that, to my knowledge, the OE has never had a route through Brussels. So maybe this is a "clue" that he indeed go on the OE at some stage, and perhaps he even went to Switzerland (at some point between 90 and 94, not 1968. but conflating old stories again) via the OE. The link there being that the ("Google" train) as I posted earlier (YouTube vid) was in fact the train from Aigle (which is on the Simplon ligne) to Leysin . The Aigle train fits his description of catching the [Google] train to Leysin station and catching the ski-lift to the chalets (see the YouTube vid again). He has a trait to take stories of things he may genuinely have done from other time periods and fit them elsewhere for convenience and apparent detailed knowledge.

We are all pretty sure that the Switzerland "recuperating" in 1968 is a false timeline. The "horse accident" happened in 1960 (and this is documented in a medical report in the NAA files along with the details of injuries (tib/fib, noted completely healed and no deformities) and yet he is also claiming double skull fractures from it too!

It is all IMO and tenuous linking, but as a working theory is as good as anything else!

Interesting theory about him previously traveling on OE. Nothing is too 'out there' when it comes to this man.

I wonder if his visit to the V&B factory with MC is connected to the 'Florabella' design. Did MC comment that she liked it at that time? He would NOT forget that!

Also, just a thought about his injuries and Medical Certificate in NAA file.
Although he had obvious leg scars, any notes about his injuries and how & when they occurred would have been from his own explanation to the examiner (and we know how reliable that is) I'm still not 100% convinced that whole story is true.

 

[BonnieB]

Agree, RB actually volunteered the info that he went there with MC!

I remember being shocked because we know that 'Florabella' is one of their patterns AND that Marion owned fine china (it's never been confirmed if she owned V&B).

At the time I thought more would come of it and that maybe RB was covering himself, in case police found any of Marion's V&B associated with him.

Edit: on 16 Feb, I posted during RB testimony about MC: "Notice he mentioned going to the Villeroy and Boch factory with her?"

I'm fairly sure Sally has discounted the idea that Marion owned the 'Florabella' design dinner set.
I'm more inclined to think that MC commented that she liked the design during their visit to the factory or that it is in some way connected to MC.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He mentioned his solicitor several times (stating he was following his solicitors rec to just tell the truth ) Maybe he/she was just off camera.

This made me laugh so much when he said three or four times 'my counsellor / solicitor has told me to just tell the truth, tell the truth'

The fact he interchanged the words counsellor and solicitor made me feel unsure as to whom he was referring - legal counsel ? or a psychological counsellor ? or both ?

I wonder how many people have pleaded with him to tell the truth over the years? Anyway, it's redundant. Well know feature of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (as opposed to just narcy people) is they have no truth, they believe the fantasy they invent IS the truth and you must adapt to it.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This was actually the point at which my kaleidoscope view shifted and started to revise some of my thinking to this point.What I mean is...there were inklings that MC was more important to him than any others and that he had fantasies of being FNR, but it shifted my thinking on how that related to MB in particular and what might have happened.I am processing it!

I felt the same. It seems WW is enacting some sort of pathalogical attachment disorder / trying to re-create the past / vengeance fantasy maybe. He seemed shellshocked at the news of MC's 'betrayal'. I thought she was my best friend in the world or somesuch.

 

[gymtonic]

Interesting theory about him previously traveling on OE. Nothing is too 'out there' when it comes to this man.

I wonder if his visit to the V&B factory with MC is connected to the 'Florabella' design. Did MC comment that she liked it at that time? He would NOT forget that!

Also, just a thought about his injuries and Medical Certificate in NAA file.
Although he had obvious leg scars, any notes about his injuries and how & when they occurred would have been from his own explanation to the examiner (and we know how reliable that is) I'm still not 100% convinced that whole story is true.

Indeed! Another of my speculations was whether the injuries are connected to the charge of involuntary Injury on 10 May 19966, which I researched and found this....Involuntary Injuries: What is this? Product liability and safety in Belgium: In the case of injury or death caused by a defective product, there is also a risk of criminal prosecution. Under Article 418 of the Criminal Code a person who causes harm by negligence, without intent to harm the person, can be guilty of involuntary manslaughter or injury.

 

[mishy66]

I'm fairly sure Sally has discounted the idea that Marion owned the 'Florabella' design dinner set.
I'm more inclined to think that MC commented that she liked the design during their visit to the factory or that it is in some way connected to MC.

He probs just showed her a photograph of the design and said he came up with it as his friend owns the factory