Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[KiwiNZ]

I would have thought that they would have done asap! I hope it does lead to something, but with how uncertain she seemed to be about the sighting and what happened, I don't know if they will.

I know those courses are not university education etc.. but if the company is still around you would think they would still have the records of people whom attended, when you give out a certificate its assumed it can be validated and confirmed by the institute if required by an employer

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I know those courses are not university education etc.. but if the company is still around you would think they would still have the records of people whom attended, when you give out a certificate its assumed it can be validated and confirmed by the institute if required by an employer

About | TAFE International - TAFE NSW

www.tafensw.edu.au

About TAFE NSW​

TAFE stands for Technical And Further Education.​

NSW stands for New South Wales, a state of Australia.​

TAFE NSW is the NSW Government’s public provider of vocational education and training (VET) and we’re the largest education and training provider in Australia.


I have no idea how long they keep records. I did a search but didn't come up with anything conclusive.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Here is a NSW Government page on how long the state keeps various records.

Education: Higher & further education and research records (GA47)

The General retention and disposal authority: higher & further education and research records (GA47) is approved for use by all NSW public offices providing higher and further education, including the Universities, TAFE NSW and the Department of Education, and for public offices with a formal...

www.records.nsw.gov.au

 

[KiwiNZ]

The only reason she's up there is that police were interested in her account since the beginning, and it's remarkable that after years of saying she couldn't remember, she now suddenly does. And that's worth getting on record. IMO.

don't take my comments wrong, I love your view on this and you're making me think, I am just coming at somethings from a different way and putting it out there

I think it would be wrong of the police not to have forward a statement to the coroner / inquest of a person who claimed to have seen Marion. Imagine the back lash they would have got if the public / Sally found out someone "claimed" to have seen her and that not included in the inquest, I don't think they had a choice but to .. at least then she could be questioned for the validity of the sighting and as it turns out its does look like it holds much water .. had she not been put on the stand none of would have known the "sighting" was full of holes and questioned the police for not sharing this information.

Working in compliance I get in the same quandary, once I know I know and I can't unknow, I have to act on it, otherwise not acting on it even though I know the risk is small could land me in more trouble than it's worth. The police probably though we have this info, it seems weak but let the court be the judge of it, otherwise we take the heat for not sharing and making that call ourselves

 

[KiwiNZ]

Here is a NSW Government page on how long the state keeps various records.

Education: Higher & further education and research records (GA47)

The General retention and disposal authority: higher & further education and research records (GA47) is approved for use by all NSW public offices providing higher and further education, including the Universities, TAFE NSW and the Department of Education, and for public offices with a formal...

www.records.nsw.gov.au

nice find - I think - returning to the workforce training would fall under this ??

Finalised results obtained by students for non-award courses including continuing education programs and community courses.

Retain minimum of 7 years after action completed, then destroy

 

[KittensAugustus]

Off topic but wondering if Marion was an avid reader? If so, did she have a library card? That could provide insight into books she was borrowing and possible travel plans? Might also be worth looking for a library record in the UK.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's funny that "she" would confide in strangers as to her "plans", but not a word to friends, family or colleagues.

 

[*juniper*]

It's funny that "she" would confide in strangers as to her "plans", but not a word to friends, family or colleagues.

Hi, long time lurker here. MOO - I wonder if MB is under instruction by RB, and is sharing this information as a way to hide her (or ultimately his) real intentions. This is similar to why she wrote 'housewife' etc on her incoming passenger card instead of school teacher. And also as a reason to explain why she is withdrawing a significant amount of cash in a short period of time.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Why would Marion need to attend a TAFE course? What is the nature of their courses?

Do we know anyone else connected to RB who would attend a course in a fake name for some bizarre reason, maybe trying to build a fake persona / profile? Why would someone do that and put themselves at risk of being implicated in the disappearance of MB and the theft of her money?

OR should we dismiss this bizarre testimony out of hand because it seems to me it was only done in order to muddy the waters and create 'reasonable doubt'.

 

[hoodunnit]

It's funny that "she" would confide in strangers as to her "plans", but not a word to friends, family or colleagues.

and want to"disappear", yet stay in earshot of family and friends......mmmm nope

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Why would Marion need to attend a TAFE course? What is the nature of their courses?

Tafe has had all kinds of courses over the years. They used to have a lot of hobby courses back then.
Like art, keep fit, languages, computers, dancing. A huge variety. Costs for the courses used to be very reasonable.

These days they are mostly vocational.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Why would Marion need to attend a TAFE course? What is the nature of their courses?

Do we know anyone else connected to RB who would attend a course in a fake name for some bizarre reason, maybe trying to build a fake persona / profile? Why would someone do that and put themselves at risk of being implicated in the disappearance of MB and the theft of her money?

OR should we dismiss this bizarre testimony out of hand because it seems to me it was only done in order to muddy the waters and create 'reasonable doubt'.

If I remember correctly - it was a return-to-work course - for people who had been out of work awhile, JH said she did it when returning to work after her children, I assume they help you with your CV etc... it was a few years after the bank incident

I don't think it was her personally, but if it was then I assume no longer associated with RB or it was a very long con.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If I remember correctly - it was a return-to-work course - for people who had been out of work awhile, JH said she did it when returning to work after her children, I assume they help you with your CV etc... it was a few years after the bank incident

I know that course, it was called WOW, short for Women Out of Work.
Actually I may have assumed part of it was out of work, but I just searched and it said Wow is for Work Opportunities for Women.
I have my diploma somewhere LOL, not sure exactly where.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes, the current investigation would have followed up on all the Bank Manager's new evidence, no matter how weak, including the TAFE thing. They even checked when the Silverchair gig was on.

Remember there is a HUGE brief of evidence, they have interviewed many people (more than we know!), and only a tiny fraction is brought up in court - they are careful choices.

For example, the kids are cooperating but weren't asked to speak. But the wife was, even though she had no knowledge of Marion or ever met her. Former tips were NOT discussed in court, such as the Armidale College search or Clark Hunter post, but this tip was. This new tip isn't about the details being useful or revealing (they aren't!) but about WHO it's coming from and WHEN, which leads to WHY?

The Coroner will weigh up the value and validity of the alleged sighting. Given the witness had decades to speak up about Marion, it is noteworthy she is only doing it now. The tip itself doesn't identify Marion or her bank transactions, and often contradicts what we know of Marion.

Because the Coroner's job is to determine if Marion is still alive, the Coroner will have to consider the if the witness was consciously or unconsciously influenced by factors such as: reward, need for attention, need to clear her name, media coverage, or other people.

 

[brjakj]

Hi, long time lurker here. MOO - I wonder if MB is under instruction by RB, and is sharing this information as a way to hide her (or ultimately his) real intentions. This is similar to why she wrote 'housewife' etc on her incoming passenger card instead of school teacher. And also as a reason to explain why she is withdrawing a significant amount of cash in a short period of time.

This was my thought exactly - that he was making her withdraw the cash and gave her the story to tell. And whatever happened to her happened after the money was withdrawn.

I wish they had asked if anyone was with her at the bank or just outside!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

'Other people' can mean a lot of things. Manager admits to talking to her former staff about the case recently. Yet her staff allegedly don't remember anything (O RLY?!) because if they did, they'd be a witness. And one staff was married to a police officer who presumably has access to records or information. I don't know what this means, it's just worth noting.

Something I think about is that IF Marion or an impersonator was at that bank withdrawing money, the majority of the interaction was with the staff NOT the Manager. The staff would have ID'd customer and called their main bank to get approval and match signature.

Is it possible this staff didn't do THEIR job properly? Either on purpose or by accident? So the Manager just went ahead with their job, trusting the staff did they leg work right? The Manager said it was a very busy time so I can imagine standards slip a little.

Another option is that no-one went to the bank. Myself and others have spoken about bank fraud by staff before and that it's done by staff without customers present. It used to be very easy and happened ALL THE TIME. By Staff with massive debt, substance issue, gambling problems, staff who were bored and like to test how much they could get away with, and I remember one Manager who like to steal from the bank to buy expensive handbags.

Although most people here only see two options (it either was Marion or an imposter at bank), there are actually MORE options:

- Marion withdrew her own money (under coercion from RB, staff/manager are innocent)
- RB got someone to impersonate Marion (staff/manager innocently failed to do job/notice fraud)
- RB got someone to impersonate Marion (staff/manager went along with it due to prior arrangement)
- RB went alone to the bank (he previously arranged it with staff he bribed/blackmailed)
- No-one went to the bank as RB previously arranged it with staff he bribed/blackmailed

Just speculation.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Australian records are typically required to be kept for a minimum of 7 years. Being a state run tertiary education institution, TAFE would probably keep them for much longer due to students requiring verification for a lifetime. But Registered Training Organisation's are only required to keep records for 6 months.

All of this is beside the point, because we KNOW Marion didn't have a job in the names of MB, FR, or any other legal name - she never used her bank, superannuation, driver's licence, passports, etc. So IF it was Marion at the course, she would be deep undercover using a different 'illegal' name.

What would be her motivation to go so deep undercover? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Without a job, how did she live? She never used social security benefits. And she couldn't live off the money she withdrew for very long, definitely not for 10 years.

I don't for a second believe Marion did a 'back to work' course.

And the information the witness gave was so vague, we really can't tell who she thinks she saw. It identifies no one.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Inquest started. Casselden is summarising the Crown's submission/position.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Oooh! we have dates of August withdrawals and locations! It was $500 not $5000!!!!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

on 15 October 1997, $80k transferred, possibly overseas from State Bank BYRON branch NOT Ashmore!