Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Deleted member 249471]

Smith is up now and blowing Bourke's submission up by saying they are constantly attacking Sally's credibility yet she has been instrumental in getting this case open again. It can't be both things.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

YES! Smith says the police note that MB was 'located safe and well and doesn't want whereabouts disclosed', is unreliable and should not be treated as a fact Marion was located because it allegedly came from bank staff - an unnamed person who isn't in court and can't verify Marion's identity. That can't say what ID method was used. They can't say if they had any doubts it was MB as opposed to any other customer. Plus there's just no solid evidence on who and when police spoke to get that info. Also Smith clarifies account was not closed when $80k was withdrawn but in 2004. I presume due to 7 years of inactivity.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Adjourned til 2pm

One hour from now for those not in the same time zone

 

[centred]

Just popping in to add an observation and the idea that the $500 withdrawals done leading up to the day the $80 thousand was (transferred ) could be a way to verify an identity to tellers as believable prior to D day . makes perfect sense to me . Without a card one would only need a couple of identifiers initially over the counter and after that you become recognizable to the tellers as soon as you walk in ....

 

[brjakj]

Just popping in to add an observation and the idea that the $500 withdrawals done leading up to the day the $80 thousand was (transferred ) could be a way to verify an identity to tellers as believable prior to D day . makes perfect sense to me . Without a card one would only need a couple of identifiers initially over the counter and after that you become recognizable to the tellers as soon as you walk in ....

It how would she identify herself if both passport and dl were in FNMR name?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Such good points!

So a potential scenario could be: a person walks into a bank everyday to withdraw $500 saying they lost their card. All they need to do is fill in a slip with account details. I don't think ID was always asked for at the time, especially in non-metro banks. Particularly for small-ish amounts.

The ID they have is a passport or dl in FMNR name and they look like their passport photo.

However, they mention their former name is MB and show a copy of deed poll certificate.

When it comes to the big withdrawal, they forged the signature that deed poll copy and match Ashmore bank file.

Is that the gist of it?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

With regards to State Bank accounts:

- Streamline account is still open!
- The high interest earning account was the one closed in 2004 by the bank after 7 years of untouched funds. Marion had opened it 2 June 1997 after she sold house and mortgage on was discharged. It’s the one that had the $14k in it where the customer gave Barkley’s Rye as a contact address.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Smith goes on about Missing Person's unit also don't have a name for the the bank staff they spoke to. They don't know what ID procedure was used. All they know is that the bank staff said they were sure it was Marion. The staff's manner of speech gave the police the idea bank was confident about ID'ing the customer. But we can't rely on a manner of speech.

Smith says that still isn't proof of a sighting from police or bank.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Smith say's it's odd that Marion returned to Australia and made a series of $500 withdrawals in August, finalising 28 August. It wasn't until 15 October that the big transfer/withdrawal was made. He says we can't be sure it was Marion or that Marion was alive because it asks the question - where was she staying and what was she doing from 28 Aug until 15 Oct? It's a big gap where she is unaccounted for.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Smith doubt's LH bank manager account as it is inconsistent. She said several small withdrawals were made the SAME DAY as the big withdrawal, which goes against the other info we have from Marion's family who made notes about it in 1997.

9 other staff of State Bank were questioned by police.
None had any information on Marion or the transitions made.

 

[chloborose]

Poor sally, today has been so awful for her from the Police’s behalf. I hope she didn’t miss too much when she walked out as Smith is doing such a good job defending her

 

[KiwiNZ]

Poor sally, today has been so awful for her from the Police’s behalf. I hope she didn’t miss too much when she walked out as Smith is doing such a good job defending her

At least she got an apology of sort -

 

[chloborose]

At least she got an apology of sort -

Agreed. I’m liking that counsel assist are supporting as well

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Poor sally, today has been so awful for her from the Police’s behalf. I hope she didn’t miss too much when she walked out as Smith is doing such a good job defending her

I was so engrossed in listening to Smith that I didn't see Sally leave.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I think one of the biggest questions is: if Marion made the $80k transfer OVERSEAS, and it’s a known fact Marion never left Australia and is likely deceased, where is that money?

She obviously didn’t ‘live off the money’ when she allegedly started a new life and willingly ghosted her family (nor did she have a job or receive social security).

It’s also a know fact that RB admitted he specifically went to Europe to bring cash (and stolen coins) back to Australia.

I feel this was a failed opportunity that no party properly explored or mentioned in the submissions.

If that money went overseas and Marion never went to claim it, where is that money?!

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Does anyone know why Adam Casselden’s submission is not on the recording from today?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Oh wow, they didn’t post it!

Does anyone know why Adam Casselden’s submission is not on the recording from today?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Maybe because he showed evidence and the evidence contained personal info of Marion, police, witness statements, etc?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Disappointing because I was going to go back and re-listen because I’m sure I missed details.

I’m not sure but could it also be because it revealed things from brief of evidence that were NOT common knowledge and they’re trying to control info?

Casselden and team work with current investigators. And current investigators and homicide squad have a tendency to control information.

They do this to see see what people know and catch people out, and weed out who listens to podcast vs who has real info no-one else knows.

For example, until today we were still assuming Commonwealth Bank was involved (it wasn’t), we thought withdrawal’s were $5000 and we didn’t know dates, we also didn’t know Marion changed her DL, etc.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

T

Disappointing because I was going to go back and re-listen because I’m sure I missed details.

I’m not sure but could it also be because it revealed things from brief of evidence that were NOT common knowledge and they’re trying to control info?

Casselden and team work with current investigators. And current investigators and homicide squad have a tendency to control information.

They do this to see see what people know and catch people out, and weed out who listens to podcast vs who has real info no-one else knows.

For example, until today we were still assuming Commonwealth Bank was involved (it wasn’t), we thought withdrawal’s were $5000 and we didn’t know dates, we also didn’t know Marion changed her DL, etc.

true. I’m just disappointed as I was at work and didn’t get to see it