Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Kiwibelindy]

It how would she identify herself if both passport and dl were in FNMR name?

Yes that's what myself and my mum have been saying!!! Also the fact that the smaller withdrawal could have been the fraudster testing the process!!!

 

[KiwiNZ]

Does anyone know why Adam Casselden’s submission is not on the recording from today?

I can still see AC's submission on you tube - Coroners Court of New South Wales

 

[TootsieFootsie]

There was about 20 minutes more than what I watched live as I missed some.
How much of Casselden's summission was missing ?

 

[Belleandsebastian]

I can still see AC's submission on you tube - Coroners Court of New South Wales

Really? When I view the video it starts at ‘court has been adjourned’ and then goes to Kim Burke I think.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

N

Really? When I view the video it starts at ‘court has been adjourned’ and then goes to Kim Burke I think.

Now I can see it! Weird.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I can still see AC's submission on you tube - Coroners Court of New South Wales

Yes me too.
But I did miss about 40 minutes of it, and I'm watching now and it's up to 24 minutes and Casselden is up to where I started watching live, so maybe 20 minutes is not there ?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Mine starts from everyone being introduced, the Coroner says hello to Sally.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The length of the video shows at 6 hours.
Is that what everyone else sees ?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Phew! It back up now. But it wasn't before. Weird. Tech error I guess?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yep seems it's all there, the amount of time I missed fits in with the time I started watching.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Here's something worth a read... her two resignation letters start 12:30. Dated Sunday 13 April 1997 and resigning on 14 July 1997. I think she tells them she was "planning to travel to England and fulfilling much needed holiday dreams. I'm greatly looking forward to visiting the Partridge Family". I can't make out the rest.

The second one dated 16 June and resigning Friday 20 June because, "I'll be travelling overseas for an indefinite period and hopefully teaching in England and Europe. I'd like to renew my registration for 1996 in advance and advise you of my forwarding address for future renewal should I need to." And she gives Leslie's address.

It's very interesting that she said, "teaching in England and EUROPE". It suggests that by 16 June, she was aware she wasn't just going to England - she had ideas about travelling outside England.

Put that together with Casselden believing her passenger card as an indication she thought she was married and considered Luxembourg her new home.

 

[sah10406]

I have never understood why there hasn't been a closer look at what, if any, visas or immigration statuses MB (as FNMR) applied for or held in respect of her trip to Europe in 1997. The lack of them does seem to expose her stated plans or actions as fantasy and/or lies.

Similarly, it seems odd that despite RB's multiple Australian passports, it has never been established whether he uses a Belgian passport. If he has one, he can enter any EU country and travel across the whole zone with no or minimal immigration checks, and any spouse can do so too. I suspect he does have an EU passport, but it has never come up in evidence.

MB's story to family and friends and in her resignation letter was that she was taking a an open-ended "working holiday" to the UK, maybe for a year but she might stay and work in the UK for even longer. It sounded plausible but she appears to have not applied for a visa that would allow her to do any of that -- and moreover UK working holiday visas are only for people under 30 anyway. Her stated plan appears to have been patently false even in intention. In the absence of any visa, she presented to UK immigration a different story: she was a tourist, granted six months in the UK, work prohibited. She was not a dual national of UK and Australia who could live and work there as she pleased. It all sounds bogus and appears to bear the mark of RB.

Her separate and concurrent story to Australian immigration, as on her departure and arrival cards, was totally different again. She said she was moving permanently to Luxembourg, and she later returned from there as a married woman who lived there. Again this smacks of Blum telling her what to write on the card, and her bowing to his apparent deeper knowledge of such things including immigration fraud. She doesn't appear to have ever applied for any visa for Luxembourg that would allow her to live there in any capacity in her own right, but being the spouse of an EU national would allow her to live anywhere in the EU. As I say, if RB used a Belgian/EU passport for entering EU countries, it seems likely that he somehow convinced Marion that this would cover her too when they met up, but that meanwhile she needs a cover story to enter the UK without him, hence the working holiday BS. Of course they couldn't travel together because she would see his real name(s) and passport(s), neither of which were Luxembourg national Fernand Remakel. See also Janet Oldenburg's travel itinerary separate from RB's.

The whole thing smacks of MB being coerced by a visa/passport fraud "expert" which RB cearly is: tell your family and work this cover story, tell UK immigration this other false story so they will let you in, and tell Australian immigration this different story. It'll all come good eventually because we will be together living a new life together. This could also explain MB's name change -- she thought he was called Fernand Remakel and I can imagine him convincing her that a -eyed plan to simply "look" married via having the same name would be enough for her to live in Europe as his wife. "Don't bother your pretty little head about visas and passports, I am the expert"

It seems pretty clear that Blum fed these fantasies about work in England and married life in Luxembourg, even without any visas that allowed such things. He was an expert immigration fraudster and appears to have encouraged Marion to do the same.

 

[sah10406]

I can imagine him convincing her that a *advertiser censored*-eyed plan to simply "look" married via having the same name would be enough for her to live in Europe as his wife.

This made me laugh. An *advertiser censored*-eyed plan.

 

[DK007]

I know those courses are not university education etc.. but if the company is still around you would think they would still have the records of people whom attended, when you give out a certificate its assumed it can be validated and confirmed by the institute if required by an employer

Yes, I would also think the year she undertook the course some things such as enrolments may have been online ?

 

[KathPlumber]

I have never understood why there hasn't been a closer look at what, if any, visas or immigration statuses MB (as FNMR) applied for or held in respect of her trip to Europe in 1997. The lack of them does seem to expose her stated plans or actions as fantasy and/or lies.

Similarly, it seems odd that despite RB's multiple Australian passports, it has never been established whether he uses a Belgian passport. If he has one, he can enter any EU country and travel across the whole zone with no or minimal immigration checks, and any spouse can do so too. I suspect he does have an EU passport, but it has never come up in evidence.

MB's story to family and friends and in her resignation letter was that she was taking a an open-ended "working holiday" to the UK, maybe for a year but she might stay and work in the UK for even longer. It sounded plausible but she appears to have not applied for a visa that would allow her to do any of that -- and moreover UK working holiday visas are only for people under 30 anyway. Her stated plan appears to have been patently false even in intention. In the absence of any visa, she presented to UK immigration a different story: she was a tourist, granted six months in the UK, work prohibited. She was not a dual national of UK and Australia who could live and work there as she pleased. It all sounds bogus and appears to bear the mark of RB.

Her separate and concurrent story to Australian immigration, as on her departure and arrival cards, was totally different again. She said she was moving permanently to Luxembourg, and she later returned from there as a married woman who lived there. Again this smacks of Blum telling her what to write on the card, and her bowing to his apparent deeper knowledge of such things including immigration fraud. She doesn't appear to have ever applied for any visa for Luxembourg that would allow her to live there in any capacity in her own right, but being the spouse of an EU national would allow her to live anywhere in the EU. As I say, if RB used a Belgian/EU passport for entering EU countries, it seems likely that he somehow convinced Marion that this would cover her too when they met up, but that meanwhile she needs a cover story to enter the UK without him, hence the working holiday BS. Of course they couldn't travel together because she would see his real name(s) and passport(s), neither of which were Luxembourg national Fernand Remakel. See also Janet Oldenburg's travel itinerary separate from RB's.

The whole thing smacks of MB being coerced by a visa/passport fraud "expert" which RB cearly is: tell your family and work this cover story, tell UK immigration this other false story so they will let you in, and tell Australian immigration this different story. It'll all come good eventually because we will be together living a new life together. This could also explain MB's name change -- she thought he was called Fernand Remakel and I can imagine him convincing her that a *advertiser censored*-eyed plan to simply "look" married via having the same name would be enough for her to live in Europe as his wife. "Don't bother your pretty little head about visas and passports, I am the expert"

It seems pretty clear that Blum fed these fantasies about work in England and married life in Luxembourg, even without any visas that allowed such things. He was an expert immigration fraudster and appears to have encouraged Marion to do the same.

Great point! UK immigration at the airport are so scary towards Australians if they get even the faintest whiff you might try to work on a holiday. When I travelled in that era with my father (a teacher) they would grill him about whether he intended to do sneaky working and more recently nothing changed as they do the same to me (also a teacher). Always makes me feel super guilty, even though I’m never doing the wrong thing since no teacher in their right mind wants to work on a holiday!! They also never fail to
Interrogate you about who you are staying with and where you met them, even saying it’s your spouse doesn’t get you off light. Usually demand to see your return ticket too.

She must have been brave to lie, or committed. Or lucky.

Europe more lenient especially if by train as has been noted.

Anyway; as usual just musings.

Marion seemed to pass thru so many holes in the nets. It does suggest abundant coaching or experience from someone - or a LOT of luck.

More recently ( perhaps since the Border Force was formed?) the Aussie outgoing border police will ask about my teaching, like when did term end; how long is holidays, what year I teach? Seemingly very chummy but at times I’ve felt an edge and my teacher friends travelling without kids have too but those travelling w families usually less so.i always wondered why they profiled me but cases like this make me think they have so much weird stuff going on behind the scenes and therefore so many random data points they are told to keep eyes on.

 

[KathPlumber]

PS. I realise she likely wasn’t actually intending to work over there, but she likely had a constant case of “which lie did I tell?” For months which has gotta weigh heavily, especially for an inexperienced traveller when passing thru immigration ports.

 

[KathPlumber]

'Other people' can mean a lot of things. Manager admits to talking to her former staff about the case recently. Yet her staff allegedly don't remember anything (O RLY?!) because if they did, they'd be a witness. And one staff was married to a police officer who presumably has access to records or information. I don't know what this means, it's just worth noting.

Something I think about is that IF Marion or an impersonator was at that bank withdrawing money, the majority of the interaction was with the staff NOT the Manager. The staff would have ID'd customer and called their main bank to get approval and match signature.

Is it possible this staff didn't do THEIR job properly? Either on purpose or by accident? So the Manager just went ahead with their job, trusting the staff did they leg work right? The Manager said it was a very busy time so I can imagine standards slip a little.

Another option is that no-one went to the bank. Myself and others have spoken about bank fraud by staff before and that it's done by staff without customers present. It used to be very easy and happened ALL THE TIME. By Staff with massive debt, substance issue, gambling problems, staff who were bored and like to test how much they could get away with, and I remember one Manager who like to steal from the bank to buy expensive handbags.

Although most people here only see two options (it either was Marion or an imposter at bank), there are actually MORE options:

- Marion withdrew her own money (under coercion from RB, staff/manager are innocent)
- RB got someone to impersonate Marion (staff/manager innocently failed to do job/notice fraud)
- RB got someone to impersonate Marion (staff/manager went along with it due to prior arrangement)
- RB went alone to the bank (he previously arranged it with staff he bribed/blackmailed)
- No-one went to the bank as RB previously arranged it with staff he bribed/blackmailed

Just speculation.

Absolutely loving your analysis lately btw. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[KittensAugustus]

To work overseas as a teacher you would need a valid teacher registration. Did Marion change her Qld registration into the FNMR name? Have UK teaching registration records been checked?

 

[cortina]

To work overseas as a teacher you would need a valid teacher registration. Did Marion change her Qld registration into the FNMR name? Have UK teaching registration records been checked?

not necessarily.....some. areas are so desperate for teachers...I know of many cases where teachers are preparing pupils to study a. subject at university that the teachers haven't studied themselves...technically their official titles might not be teachers, but very few people would know. that

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Did Marion not have any right to a UK passport? If I recall correctly, in the 90s the 'patriality' rules meant that only one grandparent needed to be British in order to qualify.