Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #881
I am thinking the same, I don't think the ad in 1994(?) was answered by Marion but an amazing coincidence that it was uncovered by one of the Supersleuths (sorry I forget who it was, Joni perhaps?) and that one advertisement in Le Courrier has led to all of these shocking findings about RB and hopefully his unravelling which will see him imprisoned or stripped of his Aus citizenship and deported back to Belgium, lock him up and throw away the key.

Although I do wonder why RB spun the story about meeting Marion in Switzerland so many years earlier. Perhaps they had met prior to 1996? Seriously who would know with all the lies he spins......he probably can't remember the truth himself most of the time.
To make out he knew Marion long before and that she was a maneater. His story is so ludicrous I wouldn’t even give it the time of day.
 
  • #882
I'm curious to know what you all think might be the outcome of this Inquest. I think we've all come to the stage where we would like RB punished for his many alleged crimes. I don't know if any of you have a legal background but, if you do, I'd love to hear from you. But my hope is that RB is punished as soon as possible for any crimes where there is enough evidence as soon as possible. After all, he is 83yo and time is of the essence. Giving him any of the appropriate possible sentences could only turn out to be a few years.

At the Inquest, it has been established IMO that MB has deceased. But when, where, what method of death and who did it has not been established. Poor Marion's body could be anywhere. We can only speculate on that. I don't think that RB was personally responsible because IMO I have always thought that MB did not return to Australia. Marion's last contact was with Sally on the phone on July 31 or August 1 and RB flew back to Australia a few days before that. However, I have always felt that he could have paid someone else to do his dirty work. In this case, one day Marion's DNA might be found to match an unidentified body in the UK or even somewhere in Europe.

However, the way the Inquest is going, it appears that the legal experts seem to think that MB did return and that her body might be here. Proving murder can be done without a body if there is enough circumstantial evidence as was the case with Chris Dawson recently. But IMO there is simply not enough evidence. So IMO I'm expecting the conclusion of the Coroner to be open. It could take years to find MB's body if it is findable. But I would speculate that MB died at some time in August, 1997. But why wait until that is solved?

But many other crimes have been allegedly committed by RB which should be punishable. Even arresting him on one or two of them (and if he is found guilty at a trial), would see him in jail probably for the rest of his life.

IMO the most likely one is Fraud. So I found a sight explaining fraud in NSW and the sentencing.

https://www.australiannationalchara...d-Offences-Penalties-New-South-Wales-NSW.html

There are three women in Australia who have allegedly been defrauded by RB and now three women in Belgium. But can these Belgian cases be used at a trial here? What real evidence do we have of his love scamming frauds here? In MB's case, there is no proof IMO. In JO's case, there is attempted fraud. I hope she has documents to prove it. In GGB's case, how can she prove that RB was the one who used her credit card? In GD's case, in Belgium, she can probably prove it and has her daughter-in-law as a witness as GD told her later and they reported it to the police at the time. Maybe the other two women in Belgium will have evidence. I'm not sure if it can be assumed that because RB allegedly defrauded these other women that you can assume that he also defrauded MB.

As far as his pensions in Australia and Belgium (and his wife's Carer's pension) are concerned, I'm not sure what evidence they have found to prove that he has been defrauding CentreLink for years.

Then there is also illegal immigration to Australia, I think there is more evidence of this than anything else. If found guilty, RB could be deported back to Belgium where he could also have to face a case against GD.

There are also larceny and perjury charges RB could face.

What are your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
  • #883
I think if a movie is made on this case, it would be an outstanding success. I wonder if Seven News will do a series?
 
  • #884
Has it been ruled out that Marion did not post a personal ad to which RB responded? I know he said that's how he met her, but do we have any reason to doubt that-- given that is how he found other victims. (It's a good way to find vulnerable women.)

I imagine his ad is the sort of thing a lovely cultured and educated woman like Marion would have responded to, also because she was interested in the French language. It's a crying shame she had responded to a sociopath :(
 
  • #885
I'm curious to know what you all think might be the outcome of this Inquest. I think we've all come to the stage where we would like RB punished for his many alleged crimes. I don't know if any of you have a legal background but, if you do, I'd love to hear from you. But my hope is that RB is punished as soon as possible for any crimes where there is enough evidence as soon as possible. After all, he is 83yo and time is of the essence. Giving him any of the appropriate possible sentences could only turn out to be a few years.

At the Inquest, it has been established IMO that MB has deceased. But when, where, what method of death and who did it has not been established. Poor Marion's body could be anywhere. We can only speculate on that. I don't think that RB was personally responsible because IMO I have always thought that MB did not return to Australia. Marion's last contact was with Sally on the phone on July 31 or August 1 and RB flew back to Australia a few days before that. However, I have always felt that he could have paid someone else to do his dirty work. In this case, one day Marion's DNA might be found to match an unidentified body in the UK or even somewhere in Europe.

However, the way the Inquest is going, it appears that the legal experts seem to think that MB did return and that her body might be here. Proving murder can be done without a body if there is enough circumstantial evidence as was the case with Chris Dawson recently. But IMO there is simply not enough evidence. So IMO I'm expecting the conclusion of the Coroner to be open. It could take years to find MB's body if it is findable. But I would speculate that MB died at some time in August, 1997. But why wait until that is solved?

But many other crimes have been allegedly committed by RB which should be punishable. Even arresting him on one or two of them (and if he is found guilty at a trial), would see him in jail probably for the rest of his life.

IMO the most likely one is Fraud. So I found a sight explaining fraud in NSW and the sentencing.

https://www.australiannationalchara...d-Offences-Penalties-New-South-Wales-NSW.html

There are three women in Australia who have allegedly been defrauded by RB and now three women in Belgium. But can these Belgian cases be used at a trial here? What real evidence do we have of his love scamming frauds here? In MB's case, there is no proof IMO. In JO's case, there is attempted fraud. I hope she has documents to prove it. In GGB's case, how can she prove that RB was the one who used her credit card? In GD's case, in Belgium, she can probably prove it and has her daughter-in-law as a witness as GD told her later and they reported it to the police at the time. Maybe the other two women in Belgium will have evidence. I'm not sure if it can be assumed that because RB allegedly defrauded these other women that you can assume that he also defrauded MB.

As far as his pensions in Australia and Belgium (and his wife's Carer's pension) are concerned, I'm not sure what evidence they have found to prove that he has been defrauding CentreLink for years.

Then there is also illegal immigration to Australia, I think there is more evidence of this than anything else. If found guilty, RB could be deported back to Belgium where he could also have to face a case against GD.

There are also larceny and perjury charges RB could face.

What are your thoughts?

The inquest is saying she died after returning to Australia so I guess they can say they believe that RB ended her life in Australia in the absence of a body.

However, I agree with all your points.
 
  • #886
I'm curious to know what you all think might be the outcome of this Inquest. I think we've all come to the stage where we would like RB punished for his many alleged crimes. I don't know if any of you have a legal background but, if you do, I'd love to hear from you. But my hope is that RB is punished as soon as possible for any crimes where there is enough evidence as soon as possible. After all, he is 83yo and time is of the essence. Giving him any of the appropriate possible sentences could only turn out to be a few years.

At the Inquest, it has been established IMO that MB has deceased. But when, where, what method of death and who did it has not been established. Poor Marion's body could be anywhere. We can only speculate on that. I don't think that RB was personally responsible because IMO I have always thought that MB did not return to Australia. Marion's last contact was with Sally on the phone on July 31 or August 1 and RB flew back to Australia a few days before that. However, I have always felt that he could have paid someone else to do his dirty work. In this case, one day Marion's DNA might be found to match an unidentified body in the UK or even somewhere in Europe.

However, that way the Inquest is going, it appears that the legal experts seem to think that MB did return and that her body might be here. Proving murder can be done without a body if there is enough circumstantial evidence as was the case with Chris Dawson recently. But IMO there is simply not enough evidence. So IMO I'm expecting the conclusion of the Coroner to be open. It could take years to find MB's body if it is findable. But I would speculate that MB died at some time in August, 1997. But why wait until that is solved?

But many other crimes have been allegedly committed by RB which should be punishable. Even arresting him on one or two of them (and if he is found guilty at a trial), would see him in jail probably for the rest of his life.

IMO the most likely one is Fraud. So I found a sight explaining fraud in NSW and the sentencing.

https://www.australiannationalchara...d-Offences-Penalties-New-South-Wales-NSW.html

There are three women in Australia who have allegedly been defrauded by RB and now three women in Belgium. But can these Belgian cases be used at a trial here? What real evidence do we have of his love scamming frauds here? In MB's case, there is no proof IMO. In JO's case, there is attempted fraud. I hope she has documents to prove it. In GGB's case, how can she prove that RB was the one who used her credit card? In GD's case, in Belgium, she can probably prove it and has her daughter-in-law as a witness as GD told her later and they reported it to the police at the time. Maybe the other two women in Belgium will have evidence. I'm not sure if it can be assumed that because RB allegedly defrauded these other women that you can assume that he also defrauded MB.

As far as his pensions in Australia and Belgium (and his wife's Carer's pension) are concerned, I'm not sure what evidence they have found to prove that he has been defrauding CentreLink for years.

Then there is also illegal immigration to Australia, I think there is more evidence of this than anything else. If found guilty, RB could be deported back to Belgium where he could also have to face a case against GD.

There are also larceny and perjury charges RB could face.

What are your thoughts?
This case boils down to two stories that happened at the exact same time:

1. Marion’s passport returned to Australia. The passenger cards are in Marion’s handwriting. It suggests she returned and went missing in Australia.

2. Marion said she was calling from England and soon going to Amsterdam. Gifts and postcards in Marion’s handwriting continued arriving. It suggests she did NOT return but went missing in Europe.

They can’t both be true. One of these is fake. One of these was not Marion.

To me it’s clear that either way, the perpetrator used assistance. Either way, he couldn’t have done it alone.

We also know RB is a professional at forgery, bypassing immigration laws, and has a history of leaving women in one country while disappearing overseas with their money.

This means #2 is more likely and #1 is the fake.

However, there is no actual evidence of an accomplice now, or in the past.

But no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Yet the Crown can only use evidence and need to connect the dots in the most straightforward and direct manner.

They’ve chosen to give passenger cards and passport records more weight than phone call and postcards.

It doesn’t mean it’s the truth or full story. Casselden’s personal hunch may be the opposite but they have to put forward the most obvious and evident explanation and seeing as there’s no hard evidence of an accomplice, they have to go with Marion returning and dismissing the phone and postcards as delays and mishaps.

My opinion only.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #887
This case boils down to two stories that happened at the exact same time:

1. Marion’s passport returned to Australia. The passenger cards are in Marion’s handwriting. It suggests she returned and went missing in Australia.

2. Marion said she was calling from England and soon going to Amsterdam. Gifts and postcards in Marion’s handwriting continued arriving. It suggests she did NOT return but went missing in Europe.

They can’t both be true. One of these is fake. One of these was not Marion.

To me it’s clear that either way, the perpetrator used assistance. Either way, he couldn’t have done it alone.

We also know RB is a professional at forgery, bypassing immigration laws, and has a history of leaving women in one country while disappearing overseas with their money.

This means #2 is more likely and #1 is the fake.

However, there is no actual evidence of an accomplice now, or in the past.

But no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Yet the Crown can only use evidence and need to connect the dots in the most straightforward and direct manner.

They’ve chosen to give passenger cards and passport records more weight than phone call and postcards.

It doesn’t mean it’s the truth or full story. Casselden’s personal hunch may be the opposite but they have to put forward the most obvious and evident explanation and seeing as there’s no hard evidence of an accomplice, they have go with Marion returning.
agree completely
 
  • #888
  • #889
I think if a movie is made on this case, it would be an outstanding success. I wonder if Seven News will do a series?
I often think about what this would look like as a fictionalised series. I can’t figure it out. I guess it would have to be told through Sally’s eyes? So that the audience discovers each new twist and turn, bit by bit, same as Sally did.

There’s just so many details that I don’t think it’ll fit and don’t know how they could say it all in a visual sense.

Maybe a documentary series would work better? So the people involved could tell the stories? I don’t know, what do you all think?
 
  • #890
  • #891
I'm curious to know what you all think might be the outcome of this Inquest. I think we've all come to the stage where we would like RB punished for his many alleged crimes. I don't know if any of you have a legal background but, if you do, I'd love to hear from you. But my hope is that RB is punished as soon as possible for any crimes where there is enough evidence as soon as possible. After all, he is 83yo and time is of the essence. Giving him any of the appropriate possible sentences could only turn out to be a few years.

At the Inquest, it has been established IMO that MB has deceased. But when, where, what method of death and who did it has not been established. Poor Marion's body could be anywhere. We can only speculate on that. I don't think that RB was personally responsible because IMO I have always thought that MB did not return to Australia. Marion's last contact was with Sally on the phone on July 31 or August 1 and RB flew back to Australia a few days before that. However, I have always felt that he could have paid someone else to do his dirty work. In this case, one day Marion's DNA might be found to match an unidentified body in the UK or even somewhere in Europe.

However, the way the Inquest is going, it appears that the legal experts seem to think that MB did return and that her body might be here. Proving murder can be done without a body if there is enough circumstantial evidence as was the case with Chris Dawson recently. But IMO there is simply not enough evidence. So IMO I'm expecting the conclusion of the Coroner to be open. It could take years to find MB's body if it is findable. But I would speculate that MB died at some time in August, 1997. But why wait until that is solved?

But many other crimes have been allegedly committed by RB which should be punishable. Even arresting him on one or two of them (and if he is found guilty at a trial), would see him in jail probably for the rest of his life.

IMO the most likely one is Fraud. So I found a sight explaining fraud in NSW and the sentencing.

https://www.australiannationalchara...d-Offences-Penalties-New-South-Wales-NSW.html

There are three women in Australia who have allegedly been defrauded by RB and now three women in Belgium. But can these Belgian cases be used at a trial here? What real evidence do we have of his love scamming frauds here? In MB's case, there is no proof IMO. In JO's case, there is attempted fraud. I hope she has documents to prove it. In GGB's case, how can she prove that RB was the one who used her credit card? In GD's case, in Belgium, she can probably prove it and has her daughter-in-law as a witness as GD told her later and they reported it to the police at the time. Maybe the other two women in Belgium will have evidence. I'm not sure if it can be assumed that because RB allegedly defrauded these other women that you can assume that he also defrauded MB.

As far as his pensions in Australia and Belgium (and his wife's Carer's pension) are concerned, I'm not sure what evidence they have found to prove that he has been defrauding CentreLink for years.

Then there is also illegal immigration to Australia, I think there is more evidence of this than anything else. If found guilty, RB could be deported back to Belgium where he could also have to face a case against GD.

There are also larceny and perjury charges RB could face.

What are your thoughts?
I was only thinking the other day what could they charge him with if they can’t pin Marion’s disappearance on him and larceny & perjury were definitively the ones I would go for.
 
  • #892
Oh, yea, that sounds more like it. Particularly the Vaucluse location. Didn’t RB and DdH live there when they returned on the Chusan? He knew the area.
Jennifer went missing in 2012. So that's ten years ago. He would have been 73yo. When did he abandon that last lady in Bali? I assumed that he might have stopped by 2012. It says she would be 77yo now so the age is right for RB. But it appears to me that she could have been moving from rented accommodation in Neutral Bay to one in Vaucluse. Yes RB knew the area but it looks as if she was murdered near there as her car was still there. I have not thought that murder was RB's thing as he was after money. One would think that there would be some comment about her bank having been accessed. It sounds to me that she could have had a narcissistic partner and suffered domestic violence and was moving away to a new area away from him and he followed her and killed her. But surely he would have been suspected by family and friends.
 
  • #893
This case boils down to two stories that happened at the exact same time:

1. Marion’s passport returned to Australia. The passenger cards are in Marion’s handwriting. It suggests she returned and went missing in Australia.

2. Marion said she was calling from England and soon going to Amsterdam. Gifts and postcards in Marion’s handwriting continued arriving. It suggests she did NOT return but went missing in Europe.

They can’t both be true. One of these is fake. One of these was not Marion.

To me it’s clear that either way, the perpetrator used assistance. Either way, he couldn’t have done it alone.

We also know RB is a professional at forgery, bypassing immigration laws, and has a history of leaving women in one country while disappearing overseas with their money.

This means #2 is more likely and #1 is the fake.

However, there is no actual evidence of an accomplice now, or in the past.

But no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Yet the Crown can only use evidence and need to connect the dots in the most straightforward and direct manner.

They’ve chosen to give passenger cards and passport records more weight than phone call and postcards.

It doesn’t mean it’s the truth or full story. Casselden’s personal hunch may be the opposite but they have to put forward the most obvious and evident explanation and seeing as there’s no hard evidence of an accomplice, they have to go with Marion returning and dismissing the phone and postcards as delays and mishaps.

My opinion only.
So do you think it would go to trial using his future behaviour to support their argument?
They have to have a strong case that Marion is not alive. I think they have that.
They also have a motive - financial gain and so that she would not report him to police.
I think they will make inferences about the car being used to move the body - dates of purchase and sale.
If family and friends remember anything, that will make a stronger case. They could be witnesses.
Then his criminal history - before and after. Larceny, perjury, deception, etc.
I wonder whether he will use a Defence Barrister or defend himself?
Now I am considering these aspects and accepting that they will state that MB did come back to Australia) even though I don't believe it), I am already imagining that this case will end up in a trial.
 
Last edited:
  • #894
First time poster here but I've been following this case since June 2019 via the podcast and cannot believe the direction it has taken.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I've not had the chance to read all the threads for this case yet, but but we know RB has multiple passports in various names and has travelled using documents that weren't in his current legal name. Is it possible he could have somehow gotten MB additional passport(s) not in the name of MB or FNMR? I just cannot wrap my head around the timing of MB's supposed reentry to Australia and the timing of the phonecall to SL and the postcards postmarked after this.
 
  • #895
So do you think it would go to trial using his future behaviour to support their argument?
I’m not certain I understand all of it, but I think this is the gist of Casselden’s case:

RB was trying to deceive Marion for financial gain (which is a crime) and his long history, plus JO & GGB’s experiences with RB, are evidence of it. He suggests RB spent time with Marion in the UK and the proof is the Narita notepaper.

However, he suggests Marion returned, willingly withdrew her own money, there’s no evidence RB forced her to do it, and it’s not known when or how she died, but she is most likely deceased now, due to leaving money untouched and not accessing superannuation.

If the Coroner agrees with everything Casselden says, then there’s no dots connecting RB with Marion’s death and RB with Marion’s money.

And because of that lack of connection between RB and her money, I’m not sure they can even pursue a criminal investigation for the ‘deceiving for financial gain’.

If the Coroner ends up saying Marion is likely deceased AND there IS a link between Marion’s money and RB, then one could argue that her money was motivation for her death. That would be a substantial reason to pursue criminal charges BUT I don’t know that there’s enough evidence for that.

Sometimes the Coroner says the Findings are ‘inconclusive’ but makes a point of naming a specific person as someone who was likely involved or likely responsible. That doesn’t necessarily get followed up with any charges, unfortunately.

Separately to all that, the Coroner will likely have a few words and recommendations to give police for their conduct during the early years of investigation. As missing person protocols have improved since then, I doubt her words to police will have any meaningful outcome. Although Sally might be able to pursue legal action.

If I had to guess next steps, then I’d say it’s worth JO, GGB, Ghislaine, and every other victim to come forward to press charges so that he has to go to trial for ‘deceiving for financial gain’ because there is a lot of evidence for it, and maybe in that process, investigators can discover more about other victims, his process, murder and Marion.

I fully expect ASIC, ATO, Centrelink and Immigration to investigate and take him to court as well. So there may be more secrets uncovered there.

I sadly don’t think Marion will get any justice from the Inquest, but at least it’ll be on record that she’s deceased, and Sally can pursue more avenues.

As for RB, I 100% think this is the tip of the iceberg and just the beginning of his downfall.

He’ll spend the rest of his days in court now. I hope he lives to 100. Anything less is not fair to his victims.

My opinion only. And it may change in 5 minutes ;) I sometimes get things very right. And also get things very wrong.

*I don’t know what you mean by ‘future behaviour to support their argument’
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #896
Jennifer went missing in 2012. So that's ten years ago. He would have been 73yo. When did he abandon that last lady in Bali? I assumed that he might have stopped by 2012. It says she would be 77yo now so the age is right for RB. But it appears to me that she could have been moving from rented accommodation in Neutral Bay to one in Vaucluse. Yes RB knew the area but it looks as if she was murdered near there as her car was still there. I have not thought that murder was RB's thing as he was after money. One would think that there would be some comment about her bank having been accessed. It sounds to me that she could have had a narcissistic partner and suffered domestic violence and was moving away to a new area away from him and he followed her and killed her. But surely he would have been suspected by family and friends.
You’re right! Women often die when trying to leave a partner :( This world and power imbalances are so messed up.
 
  • #897
If I had to guess next steps, then I’d say it’s worth JO, GGB, Ghislaine, and every other victim to come forward to press charges so that he has to go to trial for ‘deceiving for financial gain’ because there is a lot of evidence for it, and maybe in that process, investigators can discover more about other victims, his process, murder and Marion.
YES YES YES!
 
  • #898
I’m not certain I understand all of it, but I think this is the gist of Casselden’s case:

RB was trying to deceive Marion for financial gain (which is a crime) and his long history, plus JO & GGB’s experiences with RB, are evidence of it. He suggests RB spent time with Marion in the UK and the proof is the Narita notepaper.

However, he suggests Marion returned, willingly withdrew her own money, there’s no evidence RB forced her to do it, and it’s not known when or how she died, but she is most likely deceased now, due to leaving money untouched and not accessing superannuation.

If the Coroner agrees with everything Casselden says, then there’s no dots connecting RB with Marion’s death and RB with Marion’s money.

And because of that lack of connection between RB and her money, I’m not sure they can even pursue a criminal investigation for the ‘deceiving for financial gain’.

If the Coroner ends up saying Marion is likely deceased AND there IS a link between Marion’s money and RB, then one could argue that her money was motivation for her death. That would be a substantial reason to pursue criminal charges BUT I don’t know that there’s enough evidence for that.

Sometimes the Coroner says the Findings are ‘inconclusive’ but makes a point of naming a specific person as someone who was likely involved or likely responsible. That doesn’t necessarily get followed up with any charges, unfortunately.

Separately to all that, the Coroner will likely have a few words and recommendations to give police for their conduct during the early years of investigation. As missing person protocols have improved since then, I doubt her words to police will have any meaningful outcome. Although Sally might be able to pursue legal action.

If I had to guess next steps, then I’d say it’s worth JO, GGB, Ghislaine, and every other victim to come forward to press charges so that he has to go to trial for ‘deceiving for financial gain’ because there is a lot of evidence for it, and maybe in that process, investigators can discover more about other victims, his process, murder and Marion.

I fully expect ASIC, ATO, Centrelink and Immigration to investigate and take him to court as well. So there may be more secrets uncovered there.

I sadly don’t think Marion will get any justice from the Inquest, but at least it’ll be on record that she’s deceased, and Sally can pursue more avenues.

As for RB, I 100% think this is the tip of the iceberg and just the beginning of his downfall.

He’ll spend the rest of his days in court now. I hope he lives to 100. Anything less is not fair to his victims.

My opinion only. And it may change in 5 minutes ;) I sometimes get things very right. And also get things very wrong.

*I don’t know what you mean by ‘future behaviour to support their argument’
I just meant his criminal behaviour before MB and his love scamming for financial gain MO later. But I think now that past behaviour is not relevant and cannot be brought up. All these potential cases, could be pursued by different authorities or individuals.

I agree with your predictions here.
 
  • #899
54 year old Ellen Wilson is still missing from the ballina area. I hope the police have checked every possible connection to RB.

It’s scary to think MB’s link to RB was only discovered by such a slim chance (Remakel advertisement).
If it was not for the name change MB would have no connection to a RB.
I’m working on her case still. I have located several previous addresses for her and guess what suburbs are on the list?
It’s possible.
Also one of her friends told me she had an unknown boyfriend who they hadn’t met… from west Ballina.
The police allegedly never followed it up.
 
Last edited:
  • #900
Run his DNA through the system incase RB is a sex offender or serial murderer.

There are so many unsolved crimes,
Missing persons from Northern NSW.
Not really missing people, they generally either turn up (dead, at a bush doof without service, continued travelling, etc). It’s the ones found dead that are not given the correct attention and written off as suicide they are the problem. See Jackson Stacker, Thea Liddle etc.
I’ve even know of murder suicides that never get reported.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
57
Guests online
2,464
Total visitors
2,521

Forum statistics

Threads
632,157
Messages
18,622,837
Members
243,038
Latest member
anamericaninoz
Back
Top