Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[mishy66]

Yes but why? There is no financial gain for using a Medicare card. It would be the last thing of someone else’s you’d think of using. (Unless you were an illegal immigrant). I think this makes it slightly more likely it was Marian.

Or, as has already been said, him making sure it was 'proof' that MB did return of her own accord....

 

[mishy66]

But he doesn’t seem that particular about covering his tracks … unless of course she did pass away overseas then you would definitely go to that extreme. But then if he knew she was gone I think he would have been too chicken to try and get her money out of the bank as he knew if she was found deceased the person accessing money would have a huge spotlight on themselves.

Another reason to make sure she would never be found .....

There is nothing chicken about him.

 

[mishy66]

But why a Barclays branch in the quaint little town of Rye in East Sussex? Why wasn’t it a Barclays branch in London or the one in Tunbridge Wells? When Marion landed in the UK I suspect she had little idea then the places she would be visiting or staying especially Rye which came later in her visit. Of course Rye is but a short distance from Burwash where RB (FdeH as he was then) and his family lived in the 1980s and he admits to visiting.

My thoughts too @Lord Peter Flimsy
Something important to RB with this branch and the name changes

 

[Deleted member 249471]

But if she didn’t return…who would have risked prosecution by travelling back on her passport?

Who? Professional scam artists who have a long history of doing exactly that!

There’s at least one person we all know who put himself at risk by continuously evading immigration laws, lying on paperwork, committing forgery, travelling internationally with fraudulent ID and other people’s ID.

Not to mention the possibility it could have been one of his business partners, someone he blackmailed or anyone he had coercive control over.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

On a completely separate and unrelated note, can we just marvel at the fact that MC would have been known as Mrs FNMR at some point in her adult life? Women were often referred to as their husband’s name. Spooky. It sends shivers down my spine.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes but why? There is no financial gain for using a Medicare card.

It’s faking proof of life. When someone is killed by accident or on purpose, it is very common for the perpetrator to create the illusion the person is still alive so that it messes up the timeline, adds confusion, and creates distance between them and the crime. It happens all the time if you follow to true crime. It’s basically ‘trying to get away with murder 101’!!!

 

[ruby925]

My thoughts too @Lord Peter Flimsy
Something important to RB with this branch and the name changes

Marion's postcard says she left some of her luggage at Heathrow and then got on a train to Tunbridge Wells, which suggests she did know she was initially going to be in the Kent/East Sussex area, which then makes sense for Barclays in Rye as an agent bank for her money. I think ID would have been a sticking point though, as her money was held in the name of Barter and her valid passport and drivers license was FNMR. If MB (and not RB) was in possession of the legal name change document, that may have been ok, but that money was never accessed.

 

[mishy66]

Unless he knew she was gone and was plotting planning paper trails..
I think that’s a bit unlikely..

He lives for paper trails, thats his lifelong habit - just in different names that suit his current project at the time.

When he travelled overseas at the time Marion did, he was using his passport of Richard Lloyd Westbury, a name he travelled on many times since 1992. He had already changed his name legally to FdeH back in 1992, so he wasn't Westbury anymore, but he travelled on that passport illegally.
It is a game to him. He has no moral compass so he isnt concerned about any legal standings as far as immigration goes, or for the law in general for that matter.

Actually he has no regard for people, not even his own family. Otherwise he wouldnt have led the life he has been since he was a teen. He is a creep.

 

[Bagpus]

I don't understand the significance of RB asking women to have their livers scanned. I realize poison can show up in results, but why would he want to flag that? Any theories

One possible theory is that he wanted it on record that they were having trouble with their livers.

"Oh, did she die of something going wrong with her liver? I remember now. She did complain of something about her liver. She even had a scan."

 

[mishy66]

I imagine his ad is the sort of thing a lovely cultured and educated woman like Marion would have responded to, also because she was interested in the French language. It's a crying shame she had responded to a sociopath

I dont think she even saw the ad he placed.

Marion was living in QLD at the time the ad was in a NSW paper.
She was also dating GE at the time.

AC did ask Blum if he had placed an Ad in the QLD paper also.....possibly eluding to the fact that there was no way Marion would have answered his Ad UNLESS he also placed the same one in a QLD paper.

He was full of BS

Placing that Ad was his undoing. I bet he regrets it every day while the rest of us rejoice in his stupidity!

 

[mishy66]

On a completely separate and unrelated note, can we just marvel at the fact that MC would have been known as Mrs FNMR at some point in her adult life? Women were often referred to as their husband’s name. Spooky. It sends shivers down my spine.

This is the reason why I have the theory he used MB to help hatch a plan for his future prospects with his 'singing testicles' lover.

Somewhere in all this is MC and her reasoning for producing all the correspondence that was so damning to him at the inquest.

Their friendship was years long. They were still corresponding even when the DeH's had moved to Tasmania - this was years after she looked after '"a little boy who looked like frederick" and says she stopped the relationship when she found out he was married .... yeah right.


IMO he hatched a plan to swindle FR with the help of MC and used Marion as the scapegoat. Somewhere along the way it all turned to and MC had to find a way out of a disaster so she set up to out him and remove herself from any potential criminal activity. That letter was used to embarrass him and let everyone see he had used her too.

She played him at his own game. Neither will implicate the other now.

 

[Brown Alleycat]

IMO it was to show proof of life here when she was back in the UK.

Yes I agree. I also think he was aware that she was deceased because if she made a few more phone calls to her family or sent more postcards after the money started being drained from her account then it would soon unravel.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Sally has confirmed Marion had the Passport and her own Licence in the name of FNMR.

The only two IDs she had in that name.
Everything else was in MB.

I wonder in this case if Marion simply believed some type of ruse that in order to travel with RB, she needed to use this 'disguise' because of his high level secret work, as per stories he'd told before about working for the UK embassy. Maybe it was just intended as a temporary identity for their joint travels, in her mind. And make it look as if they are a married couple when they check into places together. Why did she not join the dots that this would leave her in trouble accessing her own bank accounts and paperwork affairs?

Effectively seems was RB was going to abandon Marion in the UK where she was *only* known as Florabella Remakel? She may have had her hair cut and coloured so at that point anyone looking for Marion in the UK is off to a non-starter, not the correct name and not the same look.

Then he could use her MB identity in Australia to strip her of everything because no doubt he had taken hold of all her MB documents and accounts details - kept in 'storage' or put in a safe deposit locker in Australia by him before they left.

After perpetrating the swindle, if it ever came to light and a link made to him, he would claim all the documents had been stolen by someone else so any theft was perpetrated by someone else, not him. He might say all the secrecy was because he was having an affair. But how could it ever be linked to him in the first place?

Marion would simply come back to Australia and find out everything she ever had has been taken from her and report it to the police that a Mr FR has done this terrible thing to her, she would only have a description of his physical looks and a whole load of fake life description he'd fed her with. Even if she saw him in the street he would just say wow you're crazy if someone stole your stuff it certainly wasn't me. If the police even so much as interviewed him, he'd say he was hoping to leave his wife for Marion but it didn't work out and the rest of it is all crazy talk of a spurned woman.

A sure fire reason that RB would have to get rid of Marion and not just do his usual is because she had proof and she was on to him.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Only that it is mentioned on her missing persons stories that she had one that she kept secret to her friends.

I don't see why RB should be ruled out from this incident, the secret boyfriend is exactly his MO. Maybe people say he wouldn't do this so close to home but what do we know about him - the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I can't seem to quote Fastpiece's post #905.

But there are two postcards from Marion which mention her going to Amsterdam and she seems excited about it.

In yet another postcard, she mentions meeting a Dutch dentist and Mazz. Because MB mentions going to Winchester Cathedral, others have assumed she met them there. But it doesn't say that. IMO we cannot assume that MB met them there.

Because I predict that mentioning Amsterdam twice and the Dutch dentist, there could be some relevance to MB's fate.
It has been my theory for some time that RB has excited MB about the prospect of her visiting Amsterdam for the second time. He has probably told her that he will take her there. But he eventually tells her that he is too busy now or had had an accident, etc. to do that so he has asked his friend, the Dutch Dentist to accompany her as he will be visiting the UK with his friend, Mazz, later in July and RB tells MB that he has arranged an apartment in the south of England so that they can all be together to get to know each other before the trip. (one postcard was sent from Kent)

Marion cannot mention RB's friends to family on any postcards as she doesn't want them to know about RB (as he has instructed her) so she mentions Amsterdam and the Dutch dentist on three postcards so on her last postcard, she drops it in as if she just casually met them one day and that was it.

IMO MB was never informed that RB had flown back to Australia and he was the one who probably wrote the outgoing and incoming passenger cards forging her handwriting as he had collected them on a previous trip for this purpose. IMO he probably told MB that this was the story she had to tell on her outgoing passenger card so it was best for him to write it so she did what he said. He later booked the flight for Mazz and gave her the incoming passenger card to use so they would match both in handwriting and story.

It was then the Dutch dentist's job to give proof of life in England after RB flew back home by advising MB to phone Sally after RB left and writing the postcards stating in one she wouldn't be writing much as she'd be travelling which he posted later from Kent. His next job was to end MB's life and hide her body. I have also wondered whether this possible accomplice of RB's was the so-called travel agent he mentioned to JO.

Just trying to make possible connections between what we know. But IMO MB never got to go to Amsterdam. Her life ended in August, 1997.

I agree with your theory, sadly. Now the thing is who on earth could the male and female accomplices be?
Someone he knew from his time in prison?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think the only way to follow up RB after the inquest is through financial illegality’s. Just from personal experience Im Australian but was able to leave the country on my Irish passport in 1999 and my Centrelink payments continued as per normal whilst I was away (you aren’t allowed to do this now). RB may have been continuing to get uninterrupted disability payments even though he was often out of the country. The department would have been none the wiser. The change of names may have been to include this reason.

I don't know anything about Centrelink payments as I live in the UK but is it possible that some social welfare payments have different terms and conditions than others? Meaning that a person on lifelong disability welfare can travel with no penalty or disruption to payments?

For example, here in the UK (until recent history) someone who is considered life long disabled and on a disability benefits could be consented to travel overseas for long periods and it wouldn't affect their claim at all. Whereas someone who is claiming unemployment benefits as a job seeker would have their claim cancelled for leaving the UK (if the Social Security found out, which they may not).

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I definitely think MB returned. I think there was a problem accessing money. RB may have been in control of it and did his ‘I was mugged’ thing again. It may have been too difficult to access her money with different IDs in the UK. Even when I was living there in 1999 it was an absolute nightmare with security etc and so much stricter than here in OZ. She may have flown home initially to get hold of it under RB instructions.

But I don’t believe the bank tellers testimony for second. Too many holes.

I think she passed away either accidentally or after a confrontation with RB. I think it’s easier to hide a body where you live, you are more familiar and comfortable with your surroundings. There is more you can control and you have more aids to assist. (ie vehicle, house, tools etc). Everything is harder when you are away from home.

I think the bank testimony is a 100% cover up - of either her guilt that she badly effed up and released funds to a fraudster and the ensuing nightmare of a disappeared woman. Or, she's an accomplice of RB.
The fact she claims to recognise MB from the roadside hoarding as being the person who came in the bank with a flower in her hair is the real give away - she knows she needs to positively ID the person as Marion, that's her main goal. It's all complete BS, IMO JMO. I hope she will be interrogated further. Her motivation - as someone who messed up that badly, she could possibly be retroactively penalised and maybe lose her pension rights or something? As someone who was an accomplice, well, say no more...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Do you guys think RB is of high intelligence? … I can’t make out if he is so sure he is ‘just a con man and not responsible for anyones murder’ or if he truly believes he is so supremely intelligent that no one could catch him anyway…no matter what he did…

Getting away with all this activity for so long would surely add to his confidence.

The only thing that makes me think he couldn’t have done something to MB is that there was no break in activities after MB. You would think after a struggle and possibly MBs demise he may have had a break from the deception. It appears however he was right back to work not long after ..scamming the other lady in 1998.

Why would there be a break? If he had perpetrated the perfect swindle and murder he would be empowered. Most forensic psychologists / psychiatrists say that criminals tend to escalate in the frequency and severity of their crimes as time goes by. Usually they stop in older age for multiple reasons but in the case of RB seems he just kept on going. I imagine he would have felt incredibly empowered. He took everything from a woman that was well known in her community, well loved, and had close family, lots of work colleagues, friends, parents of the kids she taught, neighbours, and not one single person even mentioned it. No police looking for her, no news reports, no detectives asking awkward questions, no missing persons reports, nothing. Wow. Imagine how omnipotent he felt.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

On a completely separate and unrelated note, can we just marvel at the fact that MC would have been known as Mrs FNMR at some point in her adult life? Women were often referred to as their husband’s name. Spooky. It sends shivers down my spine.

Agreed but it was Mrs FNR (no M) I think? And for this reason it makes me wonder about MC's involvement.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm sure he got a lot of stroking of his ego that he was able to attract so many women.
Some of whom he managed to get them to agree to "start a new life with him" and seemingly give up everything to be with him. Little did they know that it wasn't love on his part, but something much more cruel.

He must have had the hugest ego.

I was going to say something else but it's not for publication...

The creep