Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[Estelle]

Yes this is the passenger list that was put up yesterday and the only Walker on it is this :

Wife is South African and husband is British.

 

[JLZ]

Yes that is what I think too. I am still open to police finding out that Diane took a flight with RB 5 days before Marion using a passport which was not in her legal name. RB seems to be good at doing such things as he's done them at least ten times before.

Do you remember Casselden asking her if she had ever changed her name yesterday, I think? I thought that was pointed at the time. IMO Diane could pass for Marion assuming she was thinner, etc. then. We need to see a photo of her when younger.

Then Diane returned using Marion's passport as she had been tricked into filling it in beforehand and also storing it in luggage with her other documents at Heathrow and RB also had the key.

Then they tricked the bank to think Diane was her to withdraw the money and did things for people to think Marion was still alive as they knew things as Marion had been open and honest with them. I think Diane could have been the "Maz" she met whom Marion mentioned on her postcard to Sally.

Then there are two scenarios I am thinking about.

1. The "Dentist" (whom Marion also mentioned on her postcard) was a killer for hire and Marion met her demise in England soon after her phone call to Sally from the UK.

2. Diane did not fly to the UK. Marion called Sally from Hong Kong airport on her stopover back to Australia. She still had her passport and airline ticket, etc. But when she had got to the airport, her other suitcase was missing with all her documents in it. She then became suspicious of RB. He knew she was going to stay at the Novotel in Brisbane as he had arranged it. So that night he went there to welcome her back. She asked him where was the other suitcase with all her documents in? He could have told her that he had it at his house in Wollongbar for safe-keeping so the next night he said he would drive her there to get it. Did he do something to her on the drive there, put her in the boot of his car and then hid her body in bushland somewhere? IMO I don't think Marion survived long after she returned to Australia (if she ever did).

3. RB tells Marion that he has to fly back to Australia urgently because of a business emergency at home - perhaps via a phone call to where she was staying. He tells her that he has found a preschool that they could buy/invest in and they need to be able to pay it by a certain date otherwise they will miss out but her money is only accessible in Australia. They have to act fast! He tells her to go ASAP to his travel agent in Sussex to book a ticket back to Australia. He advises her to put on her Arrivals card that she is a married housewife living in Luxembourg, that she will be staying at the Novotel (where he will met her and the travel agent will advise him of her date of arrival) and that she will only be staying eight? days. So Marion does what he told her to do. But when she arrives at the airport in Heathrow, she finds that the bag into which she put most of her documents in is missing. So she becomes suspicious of him and what happens after she arrives is a mystery.

I would like to find out from their children if they can remember if their parents went overseas in mid 1997 and if they were independent or if they lived somewhere else with another family for a couple of months then while their parents were overseas?

What are your scenarios?

I was thinking that in late July RB told Marion to wait for him in Europe, and having got some of her documents and information he flew back to Australia to complete the theft. But in his absence Marion quickly realized she'd made herself vulnerable and set off after him. Half way home she rang Sally and was going to tell her and ask her help but in the event she couldn't do it. Then she very quietly set about emptying her bank accounts, so he couldn't. But he found out and found her.

 

[ikarka]

Just going to leave this here ICYMI:

Early Jan 1970 – WW and DW meet aboard the Chusan departing Southampton, UK.
15 Feb 1970 – After living in Aus for the past year, WW and IK depart Aus together, status divorced. They were supposedly married for 11 months and left for Belgium without a re-enty to Aus visa.
Early March 1970 – WW and DW arrive in Sydney on the Chusan after a 3 month journey on the seas.

How could WW meet DW on the Chusan between Jan and Mar 1970 when he was still in Australia with wife IK and immigration records show they left together by plane to Belgium on the 15 Feb 1970?

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

I think my brain is broken. Why would you say clearly remember such a verifiably false detail when you could just have said you didn't remember like you said to everything else?

I am reminded of dealing with someone like this though, where at first I was like 'there must be some greater explanation as this is just too bizarre and dumb to lie about'. I was wrong. They were just lying.

 

[Estelle]

Are they complicit similar to Fred & Rose West although this crime is all about money & greed.

Yes GREED. Melissa Caddick was a fraudster of mega proportions but at least she enjoyed a great lifestyle for over ten years before she was caught out in return for her efforts of defrauding clients.

But these two. Is it just about the challenge of defrauding people and our government and getting away with it? What is the joy of hoarding money in overseas banks, putting cash and jewellery into security envelopes and never wearing it as you never go out so show it off, never have a nice house to live in, no family skiing holidays in Aspen or luxury cars? Pretending you're both invalids so you both get a pension and rent assistance, using a walker when you don't need it, not wearing designer clothes or perhaps going out to restaurants and having to cook at home, moving house every year so authorities don't catch up with you? And giving your victims and their families hell as a result?

What has been the point of it all? ADDICTED TO GREED?

 

[ikarka]

Sorry to get things off but another interesting observation - someone recently (can't remember who, sorry) commented about finding this coin listing which appeared linked to RB: Lot 1627 - World Gold Coins - Sale 126 - Noble Numismatics

Jim Noble was mentioned today as someone RB possibly had dealings with. They seemed to be getting at RB having a fairly coin dealing business - I wonder if there are more records that could be linked to him on this site.

 

[LouLouSleuth]

I think it’s like a Ponzi scheme. He had to keep one victim ahead to find the next. The money from the last goes into funding the con for the next - he pays for flights, dinners, maybe a gift here and there while potting to get his grubby hands on their cash. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Estelle]

Just going to leave this here ICYMI:

Early Jan 1970 – WW and DW meet aboard the Chusan departing Southampton, UK.
15 Feb 1970 – After living in Aus for the past year, WW and IK depart Aus together, status divorced. They were married for 11 months and left for Belgium without a re-enty to Aus visa.
Early Mar 1970 – WW and DW arrive in Sydney on the Chusan after a 3 month journey on the seas.

EXACTLY!

How could WW meet DW on the Chusan between Jan and Mar 1970 when he was still in Australia with wife IK and immigration records show they left together by plane to Belgium on the 15 Feb 1970?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

I think my brain is broken. Why would you say clearly remember such a verifiably false detail when you could just have said you didn't remember like you said to everything else?

I am reminded of dealing with someone like this though, where at first I was like 'there must be some greater explanation as this is just too bizarre and dumb to lie about'. I was wrong. They were just lying.

She can't say she 'can't remember' or 'doesn't know' when and where she met her husband of 46 years. She needed to give an answer but can't give the real answer. One theory is... they met in 1974-75 in Australia, when he secretly entered on an alias.

 

[Estelle]

The other Walkers I found on the Chusan was 3 July 1963 with the same J Walker and wife is M Walker from Taree.
Also on the same passenger list Mrs A Walker Sydney.

Could it be that DdeH connection to the Chusan is because it is the ship her parents often frequented and that is why she name her daughter after it?

Perhaps her parents met on the Chusan and became pregnant with her so their story of her birth was always romantic to her.

 

[JLZ]

Yes this is a speed bump for sure. It is very confusing.
The Gen Site I use to get the info from looked to be very thorough - it traces back some 8 generations. I agree though to human error on these documentations ( have done it myself when researching my own).
I do believe though that it is Andre Wouters as his stepfather.
Having said that Casselden must have documentation to show otherwise UNLESS he has documentation written by RB that shows another of his aliases with a parent Abdel Florent......


There IS though a family connection of Florent.

What is the family connection with Florent? Or do you mean Foulon? Does anyone know where Casselden's suggestion that RB might have identified his father as Abel Florent comes from?

 

[Estelle]

She claimed surgery was very recent, as in the last couple of years.

I remember her saying it was ten years ago after she said "recently".

 

[SLouTh]

Sorry to get things off but another interesting observation - someone recently (can't remember who, sorry) commented about finding this coin listing which appeared linked to RB: Lot 1627 - World Gold Coins - Sale 126 - Noble Numismatics

Jim Noble was mentioned today as someone RB possibly had dealings with. They seemed to be getting at RB having a fairly coin dealing business - I wonder if there are more records that could be linked to him on this site.

Going along this same line of thought ........ The Ballina Coin Company that wasn't allegedly used by the DH's ..... didnt DDH also state later in her testimony that they sold the same company later??? Or did I miss hear this information???
imo

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I remember her saying it was ten years ago after she said "recently".

Oh, I heard two. Either way, it was after GGB's time. Obviously, she could be lying.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive, should be his epitaph.

Along with Here lies Ric Blum, Frederick De Hedervary, Willie Wouters, Richard Lloyd Westbury..........

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I was thinking the same whilst watching the inquest. I hope it unravels… and their cracks become abundantly clear!

I thought it an interesting choice to wear a scarf wrapped around her neck with a tshirt here in summer. Just an interesting observation in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

What is the family connection with Florent? Or do you mean Foulon? Does anyone know where Casselden's suggestion that RB might have identified his father as Abel Florent comes from?

His thorough investigation with detectives, lawyers, homicide squad, witnesses and cooperating organisations, as his team put together the inquest for the court.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

I really feel like I need to make one of these walls.

 

[auntywithflowers]

She said she wrote letters to him in jail. Then said she didn't know where the jail was. ummm, didn't you write an address on his letters? More lies

 

[mishy66]

Sorry to get things off but another interesting observation - someone recently (can't remember who, sorry) commented about finding this coin listing which appeared linked to RB: Lot 1627 - World Gold Coins - Sale 126 - Noble Numismatics

Jim Noble was mentioned today as someone RB possibly had dealings with. They seemed to be getting at RB having a fairly coin dealing business - I wonder if there are more records that could be linked to him on this site.

wowsers!!!
That is very interesting.

 

[mishy66]

I think it’s like a Ponzi scheme. He had to keep one victim ahead to find the next. The money from the last goes into funding the con for the next - he pays for flights, dinners, maybe a gift here and there while potting to get his grubby hands on their cash. Rinse and repeat.

agree