Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[mishy66]

The next page in the archives after Fredy David arrival card is I think part of his arrival card. It shows a visa issued in Brussels. I imagine he used the alias as he couldn’t obtain a visa with pending criminal charges. I do wonder why he wanted to travel to Australia though…if to escape, I wonder why he returned?

yes exactly!

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Wow, well done!
I would send any of these finds through to the tips page, just in case they haven’t discovered this yet: Tips — The Lady Vanishes Podcast

 

[BonnieB]

Interesting...A Frederick David WEST is buried at Hull, UK. He died in 1942 on "Destroyer" during the war. Ferry from Amsterdam docks at Hull. Was this the 11hr ferry trip taken by JO? Another coincidence? Does he find his aliases in cemeteries?

 

[mishy66]

Stenographer?
Edit: Oh, I see it’s someone who transcribes shorthand. So she was a secretary after all.

She was a much needed asset I reckon

 

[KiwiNZ]

So DH Lied, she knew him as Freddy which was his name and how he would have introduced himself, not a nick name .. how do you say Hi I am willy ... ok I will call you Freddy .. which happen to be the same name on your passport.

She also admitted to knowing him as Willy and RHD and RB

she knew what he has been up to, you cant be that stupid not to think your husbands multiple names are purely innocent

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Do you think he had a passport in the Fredy David name?
Or could you possibly board a ship for international travel form the UK in 1971 without it?

 

[gymtonic]

This is getting so interesting! I wonder why he lied? He denied being Fredy David "No, that was my brother", hahaha.

Thanks to @mishy66 , here's the link:

Fredy David (pg 621) was on the Chusan from Southampton
Arrived in Aus between Jan-Jun 1971
Nationality: Belgian
Country of birth: Tournai
DOB: 7 June 1942
Address in Aus: 59 Dolphin Cres, Whale Beach NSW (always lying!)

Just something else I noticed: height differences on documents. WW listed as 1.88m and FdH as 1.90/ 1.92. I mean a couple of centimetres isn't much, but....

 

[Jamaha]

Wow, well done!
I would send any of these finds through to the tips page, just in case they haven’t discovered this yet: Tips — The Lady Vanishes Podcast

I’ve emailed them through to The Lady Vanishes Seven email address. Fingers crossed it’s another piece in the puzzle for Sally and her family.

 

[Jamaha]

And so now he has either impersonated another in Australia or perjured himself on the stand. Either way, looks like he has committed dishonesty in Australia…

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Did anyone find Diane's parents on the arrival cards?
I'd like to know if she travelled with them on the Chusan as they claimed.
OR was Diane travelling alone with Mr AKA?

Because Diane's passenger card says she was in the UK for over a year before the Chusan.
And WW was in UK when he departed for Aus to live with IK.

So it's possible DW and Mr AKA already had something going on in UK.
And he just targeted IK as a side swindle.
Then when he got what he needed from IK, he got back with DW.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

This merry go round is still taking me back to my first theory that RB is really one of WW brothers not WW - I posted it a while back ...

I’m starting to think you are right. Freddy or Desire? Remember WW on one of the genealogy sites has female not male which was always a bit weird. So perhaps WW is female and the brothers are F & D and he has used WW as a male? And now F too…

 

[brjakj]

I would love to know what story he gave DW when he met her to get a girl from Vaucluse with a decent job to marry him. Such a fall from grace for her from the life she was raised in to the one she seems to have now

 

[gymtonic]

So DH Lied, she knew him as Freddy which was his name and how he would have introduced himself, not a nick name .. how do you say Hi I am willy ... ok I will call you Freddy .. which happen to be the same name on your passport.

She also admitted to knowing him as Willy and RHD and RB

she knew what he has been up to, you cant be that stupid not to think your husbands multiple names are purely innocent

Yes, and didn't DW say that she didn't want to call him Fred because that was the name of a frog in Australia? (suggesting that he introduced himself as Fredy). So it was DW who introduced the name Ric (which he has been using in derivatives for a lot of subsequent names). IMO Fred or Fredy in Francophone countries is used as a shortened version of Frederic, so it makes more sense for his "real" name being Frederic. There was another interesting exchange in the inquest when an alias as Frederique was raised and he said "that's a woman's name" (or am I imagining that now?). Of course to Anglophones the pronunciation of Frederic and Frederique is almost indistinguishable.
So maybe RB's birth name IS Frederic and the first alias is WW (his brother?).

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

So DH Lied, she knew him as Freddy which was his name and how he would have introduced himself, not a nick name .. how do you say Hi I am willy ... ok I will call you Freddy .. which happen to be the same name on your passport.

She also admitted to knowing him as Willy and RHD and RB

she knew what he has been up to, you cant be that stupid not to think your husbands multiple names are purely innocent

Yes she did and as he put it has always called him R because fredy is a frog … lol

 

[BonnieB]

So DH Lied, she knew him as Freddy which was his name and how he would have introduced himself, not a nick name .. how do you say Hi I am willy ... ok I will call you Freddy .. which happen to be the same name on your passport.

She also admitted to knowing him as Willy and RHD and RB

she knew what he has been up to, you cant be that stupid not to think your husbands multiple names are purely innocent

I think she said he introduced himself as Freddy (Frederick) but she preferred to call him Rick because Freddy was a frog. He explained this as "He was using the Frederick de Hedervary name" but my head is spinning with names!

 

[brjakj]

Did anyone find Diane's parents on the arrival cards?
I'd like to know if she travelled with them on the Chusan as they claimed.
OR was Diane travelling alone with Mr AKA?

Because.... Diane was un the UK for over a year.
And WW was in UK when he departed for Aus to live with IK.

So it's possible DW and Mr AKA already had something going on in UK.
And he just targeted IK as a side swindle.
Then when he got what he needed from IK, he got back with DW.

Yes have found her mother, but not her father.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I would love to know what story he gave DW when he met her to get a girl from Vaucluse with a decent job to marry him. Such a fall from grace for her from the life she was raised in to the one she seems to have now

Well clearly she wasn’t looking for honesty or high moral standards… so perhaps a shag that just went a bit too long.. 45 years too long hahaha sorry I couldn’t help myself

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think she said he introduced himself as Freddy (Frederick) but she preferred to call him Rick because Freddy was a frog. He explained this as "He was using the Frederick de Hedervary name" but my head is spinning with names!

oh yes your right ! thank you

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes have found her mother, but not her father.

What page is it?

 

[gymtonic]

Do you think he had a passport in the Fredy David name?
Or could you possibly board a ship for international travel form the UK in 1971 without it?

As I understand it the timeline goes like this: After WW comes to Australia in 1969, he applies for (and gets) residency based on his marriage to IK. WW and IK depart in Feb 1970 claiming divorce. WW claims his Belgian passport (in name WW with residency visa?) is lost sometime in 1970. He departs Southhampton, UK in Jan 1971, arriving in Australia March 1971 travelling as Fredy David. Does he get another passport using FD documents to replace the "lost" WW passport?

Interestingly he uses the "lost passport" again in 1981, to get another passport in Germany. this is around the time he is trying to cover up another set of criminal activities in Europe and Interpol and AFP are trying to find him (and can't).