Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[mishy66]

Wouldn’t he be listed there? If he was part of this group?

I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth that is related SOLELY to him.

 

[brjakj]

I have found another version of the family tree that lists WW as male. Généalogie de Maria COPPENOLLE

Of interest it also shows Maria’s father, so WW’s grandfather served in WW1. So it’s possible WW is telling one of his grandfathers war stories!

 

[mishy66]

On WW's application for residency (1969) I am pretty sure (but will check) that he used "Army Pay Book" as one of the forms of ID. if this is so it suggests that the Army Pay Book was in the name WW?

Ohhhhh yes! On his interview report it does too!

( I still dont believe him though lol)

 

[MrsWattle]

@MrsWattle this is showing in 1972 yes?

yes 1972 electoral roll

 

[MrsWattle]

@MrsWattle this is showing in 1972 yes?

yes 1972 electoral rolls. Avalon @mishy66

 

[Zanzibar]

Just a thought. If Mr aka admitted he travelled on the Chusan on the date sleuths have found the incoming passenger cards for, and he also said he never used the alias his incoming card is using… what does Mr aka think they’ll do? Not look? Find another name? Or is it a track he forgot to cover and which will now help to undo him?

edit to undo damned autocorrect

 

[Estelle]

Death notice for RGW from SMH on 21/01/1987 shows children. Interesting they are named as “Anne and Ricky”. More alias names or just family nicknames?

also the one for PW from SMH on 5/9/1988 shows “Diane and Ricky”

So DdH's mother lived at Narrabeen before she died but must have been visiting someone in Lismore when she died.

 

[F.Knab]

67 is pretty young to die and if she died in Lismore and not at her home - I'm eye-balling Rick Blum pretty hard!

 

[mishy66]

So DdH's mother lived at Narrabeen before she died but must have been visiting someone in Lismore when she died.

It is possibly Lismore Hospital

 

[gymtonic]

On WW's application for residency (1969) I am pretty sure (but will check) that he used "Army Pay Book" as one of the forms of ID. if this is so it suggests that the Army Pay Book was in the name WW?

I checked and it was actually on FDdH personal statement to support application for citizenship (23/2/1976 doc p96 in NAA). it is noted that he shows a birth certificate and an Army Pay Book. both would have been in the name of WW. Copy of Name change doc is also noted as attached)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Oh my goodness @caitlincurious you are incredible.

There is a link to him in there alright.


This is part of the extensive ancestral tree that person has undertaken.
He is related within the Maria Coppenelle linage but yet to find the connection.

Adrien Emile Van Coppenolle (1893-1975)

• Born in 1892
• Deceased 30 June 1975 - Houthalen, aged 83 years old
• Buried 3 July 1975 - Houthalen
• Kolonel

Van Coppenolle Adrien Emile
https://www.blogen.wiki/blog/nl/Emile_Van_Coppenolle

Also this on the register ?

 

[KittensAugustus]

Sorry if this has been posted already, Maria Coppenolle family tree showing Willy as female: Family tree of Maria Coppenolle

 

[gymtonic]

Just a thought. If Mr aka admitted he travelled on the Chusan on the date sleuths have found the incoming passenger cards for, and he also said he never used the alias his incoming card is using… what does Mr aka think they’ll do? Not look? Find another name? Or is it a track he forgot to cover and which will now help to undo him?

edit to undo damned autocorrect

I have started writing some vignette theories for myself. on this point it goes:
Theory: He had left as WW in 1970 with residency (courtesy of IK) but no return visa. He has convictions under the name WW in Europe. If he wants to get back in to Australia he probably thinks it’s a risk to fly back using the name WW (he might be picked up for lack of re-entry visa or convictions), so he changes MO of travelling and name, hoping this will confuse the "authorities"...which it did!

IMO:I think the police have uncovered this already because at the inquest the AC:

• listed Fredy David as an alias
• was actually the one who suggested corrected SS Chusan dates from 1970 to 1971
• the AC kept saying to WW do you want to see the travel movements list to refresh your memory? (they have a more extensive list that is in the brief?)

 

[gymtonic]

Also this on the register ?

IMO Because he uses his "Army Pay Book" in the name WW, as ID for later forms, would this not suggest that EITHER he is WW and has the pay book legitimately OR he has obtained the Army Pay Book in the name of WW. Either way does this not suggest that the Gendarmerie records are in the name of WW?

 

[mishy66]

True….. still. A third may still be a significant windfall… If kids weren’t born yet then she may have lied that inheritance went to them (if I remember correctly). Are these deaths suspicious do you think?

Yes just the houses alone in Vaucluse would set them up. One of them most have sold as two separate titles 55 and 55A. ?

They seem to be able to do a lot on two pensions !

 

[artymamma]

04/12/1981 – FDdH departs Aus, no apparent re-entry for 6 years (in my timeline)
1986 FdH and DdH returned to Australia
21/01/1987 RGW died aged 79yo
5/09/1988 PW died aged about 67yo

So they didn't have long to wait until DdH inherited the family fortune.

Do we know how RGW and PW died?

 

[mishy66]

Question: is it possible that prosecutors could go after Diane and offer her a plea bargain to turn on her husband, regarding Marion? Or is that legally not allowed? To turn a wife on a husband?

Section 18 – Family members

A defendant’s spouse, de facto partner, parent or child cannot be forced to testify for the prosecution if:

• it is likely that harm might be caused to the witness, or to the relationship between the witness and the defendant, if they testify, and
• the nature and extent of that harm outweighs the desirability of receiving the evidence.

In making that determination, the court must have regard to the following matters:

• the nature and gravity of the offence,
• the nature and likely importance of the evidence,
• whether the evidence can be obtained in another way,
• the nature of the relationship between the defendant and witness,
• whether the witness would have to disclose confidential information, and
• any other relevant matter.

The relevant time for assessing these matters is when the witness is to give evidence.

Section 19 – Exceptions to section 18

Despite section 18, family members are compellable in proceedings for the following offences under the Children and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act 1998:

• section 222 – endangering children in employment,
• section 223 – certain employers of children to be authorised,
• section 227 – child abuse, and
• section 228 – child neglect.

 

[centred]

Oh my goodness @caitlincurious you are incredible.

There is a link to him in there alright.


This is part of the extensive ancestral tree that person has undertaken.
He is related within the Maria Coppenelle linage but yet to find the connection.

Adrien Emile Van Coppenolle (1893-1975)

• Born in 1892
• Deceased 30 June 1975 - Houthalen, aged 83 years old
• Buried 3 July 1975 - Houthalen
• Kolonel

Van Coppenolle Adrien Emile
Emile Van Coppenolle (Emile Van Coppenolle) 2021 - blogen.wiki

this is an amazing line alright and i delved into it at the time way back and posted some links
but no one seemed as intrigued as i was , the thing is i had trouble trying to connect the claim of the DeH he claimed to be the son of ....

 

[centred]

I have started writing some vignette theories for myself. on this point it goes:
Theory: He had left as WW in 1970 with residency (courtesy of IK) but no return visa. He has convictions under the name WW in Europe. If he wants to get back in to Australia he probably thinks it’s a risk to fly back using the name WW (he might be picked up for lack of re-entry visa or convictions), so he changes MO of travelling and name, hoping this will confuse the "authorities"...which it did!

IMO:I think the police have uncovered this already because at the inquest the AC:

• listed Fredy David as an alias
• was actually the one who suggested corrected SS Chusan dates from 1970 to 1971
• the AC kept saying to WW do you want to see the travel movements list to refresh your memory? (they have a more extensive list that is in the brief?)

Oh i have never doubted they didn't have the majority of what we have here

 

[mishy66]

Oh i have never doubted they didn't have the majority of what we have here

They would have so much evidence of them, we arent even in the ball park haa!- it will be really interesting to see what comes out that no one has thought of that is for sure!