Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #20

[RingoStarr]

It’s amazing how much time and effort he must have put into each one of the scams. When you add it all up, the financial return was relatively low, but I guess the motivation was just as much about power and control.

For sure. But the overall returns would have far outweighed the effort involved.

Every player would have have clipped their ticket.

Whatever that ticket happened to be.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He may have hit the jackpot on some of his "works" that we don't know about yet.

But for his victims it was all they had. He took the lot.

Not only did he want all they had. He wanted them left humiliated and heartbroken as well.

If he hit the jackpot anyhow, how come he was having to scam his kids into dental care? For me, that speaks volumes.

I mean how much does dental treatment cost in Australia? Aren't ones children entitled to some form of low cost treatment before the age of 18 and especially if one is on disability benefits?

Some people suspect AKA was gambling. I don't. Anyone with his mindset would know gambling is a mug's game and deride the very idea. If he ever did hang out in casinos it would be looking for 'marks', IMO JMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It could also have simply been Marion. We just don't know.

True. Altho I have dithered between thinking M returned or not, I am personally back to my previous stance that she didn't. JMO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If he hit the jackpot anyhow, how come he was having to scam his kids into dental care? For me, that speaks volumes.

I don't think it mattered to him how much he had.

He always wanted more, and why pay for something when you can get if for free by fraudulent means,

I think he got a great deal of pleasure from how he was able to con people.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There wouldn’t have been any financial benefit for him in using the Medicare card

If Marion didn't return to Australia, it is possible that AKA set up someone with some fake ID, maybe sold on her passport and medicare (altho by then they were in two diff names) to someone desperate to get to Australia or even two different people.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

True. Altho I have dithered between thinking M returned or not, I am personally back to my previous stance that she didn't. JMO

I waver between one or the other.

Right now I'm thinking it's either she came back or she didn't.

I just don't know. Both scenarios have things going for them, and both have some against them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I waver between one or the other.

Right now I'm thinking it's either she came back or she didn't.

I just don't know. Both scenarios have things going for them, and both have some against them.

I know right!? The only thing I'm absolutely certain of is that there is really only a small time frame during which M was most certainly alive and then most certainly not, IMO.

To my mind, although the background research and discoveries of AKA and all his activities have been remarkable brilliant sleuthing and built the whole picture, the only way to really ever know what became of M is at some point for the time after her phone call to SL to become the focal point - I'm not saying it hasn't been already but seemingly even yet more.

There must be some people in the UK who would recall M or somewhere she wrote her name in a visitor book or anything / something. She was a gregarious and friendly person by the sounds of it and I'm sure people would remember her.

 

[CuriousKat99]

Wow… It has not been established that MB returned to withdraw the money from her account
Hi Kaypee
Imo it is more credible that she returned for her money - it is more far fetched to me that someone impersonated her - I just think that is very risky…also the bank manager or ? Teller said she seemed airy fairy and mentioned she had “another name” The manager says she cannot remember that name she used <it’s possible that Florabella was a short lived name for her and if she returned to Europe or Asia etc post money she may have used a new name so leaving the country was not recorded. It is what RB would do - again not a popular idea but she may have learned some moves from RB

I understand coercive control toooo well unfortunately and the story you mention of your family is very sad and happens - so yes so with coercive control I don’t see mb being controlled when retrieving her own money - unless maybe RB had offered her a way to get her money overseas and that method may have lost Marion her money because RB is like a vacuum cleaner with other peoples money - sorry I wish I buy into the Marion as total victim thing but part victim I can buy into.

I am not sure MB was in a vulnerable place in her life but she may well have been under a lot of pressure to change her life - the realisation that the pilot was going to marry someone else - possible blackmail with the LG who lived on the school grounds and was a nightmare apparently to navigate his horridness and narcissistic ways. So my theory is that RB was a person who could enable her to do what she has /had set out to do - change her life leaving it all behind. I also think there is a possibility that her son may have got himself in some trouble and she tried to help but possibly but off more than she could chew and there was threats <<conjecture as I do not know what the son was like but on the coast at that time their was a lot of bikie gangs and they ruled “everything” especially tattoo salons and motorbike dealing etc
They just went into tattoo salons opened up by just normal you and me type couple and demand payments and if no pay they burn it down. So if threatened or in the wrong side of them it’s a no win get away at all costs situation. Just thinking out loud.
Then you have the school pressure - I don’t think MB was naive sexually - she’d been around a long time had a few husbands and even the best of us can be love bombed and fall for it but I just see her reasons for leaving stems from him - I see it either work related…or related to some situation that was untenable so the only way is to change one’s name and get away.
The sledged allegation about fiddling with a boy at school sounds to me to have come from the narcy LG and that would horrify someone in Mb,s position to the core - in a lot of ways there is no coming back from that even if the allegations were false it will do enough damage to ruin a person in their life as they know it - that would be a catylist to vamoose and reinvent one’s self imo

IMO, no matter what theory we consider, the following are certain:

1. AKA knows a lot more about Marion’s disappearance than he has let on so far.
2. AKA lied multiple times in police interviews and while giving evidence as a witness at the inquest.
3. There is enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a very thorough and extensive investigation into AKA’s involvement in Marion’s disappearance.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It’s amazing how much time and effort he must have put into each one of the scams. When you add it all up, the financial return was relatively low, but I guess the motivation was just as much about power and control.

I think he was also committed to it as a lifestyle. Probably has some pretty grandiose ideas of himself being so much cleverer and wittier than 99% of the population, international playboy.

A bit like the real life character portrayed by Leonardo di Caprio in 'Catch Me If You Can'.

Also clearly absolutely hates women so he was utilising that aspect of his psyche IMO.

 

[KathPlumber]

I know right!? The only thing I'm absolutely certain of is that there is really only a small time frame during which M was most certainly alive and then most certainly not, IMO.

To my mind, although the background research and discoveries of AKA and all his activities have been remarkable brilliant sleuthing and built the whole picture, the only way to really ever know what became of M is at some point for the time after her phone call to SL to become the focal point - I'm not saying it hasn't been already but seemingly even yet more.

There must be some people in the UK who would recall M or somewhere she wrote her name in a visitor book or anything / something. She was a gregarious and friendly person by the sounds of it and I'm sure people would remember her.

Yeah I agree. And if she came back, there must be SOMEONE that recalls her… a Novotel employee, a shop assistant, anything…

I’m one of those people who remembers everyone and finds it weird when other people don’t. So I’m like, come ON! Someone has to remember SOMETHING.

 

[RingoStarr]

Also could have been an admin error on behalf of Medicare, ie something mis-filed or wrongly recorded?

Could have been a completely false visit report by Medicare (dunno if they would have anything to gain from that except some form of minimum charge fee claim)?

Could have been some form of telephone contact wrongly recorded as a physical visit?

Could have been a scammer trying to do a bit of digging to check if it's of some use anyhow?

Could have been a scammer checking the profile is active because they're using it to scaffold a fake ID?

Could have been a person who stole Marion's ID wanting to shut it down to ensure no ongoing contact?

Could have been a person who stole Marion's ID wanting to demonstrate proof of life?

Could have been a person who stole Marion's ID wanting to scope out the premises for stuff to steal?

For sure, and we have to consider all possibilities , but let's put aside the outliers and all get across this:

It's either Marion (prompted or unprompted) (with/out visual disturbance) having an eye exam (and all that implies)

OR

An imposter proving proof of life.

Dates. Time. Location.

The RACQ cancellation and her visiting an optometrist could be seen as 'tidying up loose ends' before heading back overseas.

How convenient

She was back in Aus. She must have taken the money out herself.

Job done.

 

[mishy66]

If Marion didn't return to Australia, it is possible that AKA set up someone with some fake ID, maybe sold on her passport and medicare (altho by then they were in two diff names) to someone desperate to get to Australia or even two different people.

My thoughts too, although the medicare card etc that were all in Marions name would be with him also - he had the lot - safe keeping her OS ID in FNMR "in case she lost it " as he did with another victim, leaving her stranded OS and all the MB ID packed up nicely in his filing cabinet back home after he helped Marion pack - he only needed a female here to do the rest.

JMO

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #20

AH do you know the name Simon Attila West :cool: put my mind at rest and say no In a VERY short space in time I now see that SAW has closed up shop already!? No more website. Now was that before or after Evelyn disclosed her uncles name? It would be just one of many coincidences in this case...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Kaypee3]

Wow… It has not been established that MB returned to withdraw the money from her account
Hi Kaypee
Imo it is more credible that she returned for her money - it is more far fetched to me that someone impersonated her - I just think that is very risky…also the bank manager or ? Teller said she seemed airy fairy and mentioned she had “another name” The manager says she cannot remember that name she used <it’s possible that Florabella was a short lived name for her and if she returned to Europe or Asia etc post money she may have used a new name so leaving the country was not recorded. It is what RB would do - again not a popular idea but she may have learned some moves from RB

I understand coercive control toooo well unfortunately and the story you mention of your family is very sad and happens - so yes so with coercive control I don’t see mb being controlled when retrieving her own money - unless maybe RB had offered her a way to get her money overseas and that method may have lost Marion her money because RB is like a vacuum cleaner with other peoples money - sorry I wish I buy into the Marion as total victim thing but part victim I can buy into.

I am not sure MB was in a vulnerable place in her life but she may well have been under a lot of pressure to change her life - the realisation that the pilot was going to marry someone else - possible blackmail with the LG who lived on the school grounds and was a nightmare apparently to navigate his horridness and narcissistic ways. So my theory is that RB was a person who could enable her to do what she has /had set out to do - change her life leaving it all behind. I also think there is a possibility that her son may have got himself in some trouble and she tried to help but possibly but off more than she could chew and there was threats <<conjecture as I do not know what the son was like but on the coast at that time their was a lot of bikie gangs and they ruled “everything” especially tattoo salons and motorbike dealing etc
They just went into tattoo salons opened up by just normal you and me type couple and demand payments and if no pay they burn it down. So if threatened or in the wrong side of them it’s a no win get away at all costs situation. Just thinking out loud.
Then you have the school pressure - I don’t think MB was naive sexually - she’d been around a long time had a few husbands and even the best of us can be love bombed and fall for it but I just see her reasons for leaving stems from him - I see it either work related…or related to some situation that was untenable so the only way is to change one’s name and get away.
The sledged allegation about fiddling with a boy at school sounds to me to have come from the narcy LG and that would horrify someone in Mb,s position to the core - in a lot of ways there is no coming back from that even if the allegations were false it will do enough damage to ruin a person in their life as they know it - that would be a catylist to vamoose and reinvent one’s self imo

IMO, the teller may not be a credible witness and her account of her alleged interaction with MB is vague and unsure.
I agree it would be quite risky to impersonate someone but RB seems to be quite adept at taking risks and partaking in various deceitful and fraudulent activities… I do think it is very possible ‘someone’ close to him could easily stick a flower in her hair and behave ‘airy fairy’ pretending to be someone else, particularly as it wasn’t MB’s local branch where the money was withdrawn from.

Your view on bikie gangs on the coast ruling everything is somewhat dramatic… having lived there at that time, for many years and being a motorcycle rider myself, I would not consider this to be true.
Yes RB may have taught MB some tricks of the trade, however, IMO, that is highly unlikely and far less probable than her being conned and taken advantage of by a master manipulator.
The other topics you’ve raised are very speculative re the issues with the school, sexual naivety and the pilot etc IMO

I stand by my post and my opinion and hope that regardless of opinions and theories, yours or mine, the truth regarding what happened to MB comes out the end and those responsible for her disappearance are held accountable.

JMO & MOO

 

[mishy66]

My thoughts too, although the medicare card etc that were all in Marions name would be with him also - he had the lot - safe keeping her OS ID in FNMR "in case she lost it " as he did with another victim, leaving her stranded OS and all the MB ID packed up nicely in his filing cabinet back home after he helped Marion pack - he only needed a female here to do the rest.

JMO

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #20

AH do you know the name Simon Attila West :cool: put my mind at rest and say no In a VERY short space in time I now see that SAW has closed up shop already!? No more website. Now was that before or after Evelyn disclosed her uncles name? It would be just one of many coincidences in this case...

www.websleuths.com

Although.... MB was the 'first' we know of in his line of victims traveling OS, so he could have upped his game IF Marion did return home with her FNMR passport and that was why he chose to hold onto the future victims passports.?

Gawd round and round the mulberry bush.

MARION WHERE ARE YOU!

 

[Kaypee3]

IMO, no matter what theory we consider, the following are certain:

1. AKA knows a lot more about Marion’s disappearance than he has let on so far.
2. AKA lied multiple times in police interviews and while giving evidence as a witness at the inquest.
3. There is enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a very thorough and extensive investigation into AKA’s involvement in Marion’s disappearance.

100% agree

 

[TootsieFootsie]

At times, I think RB might have unwittingly used women, by getting them to change their hair colour.
I think the reason most likely had to do with some scam, and not because of his preference for hair colour.

Ages ago I thought, it was just to get them out of the house for awhile so he could ransack it.
But what if it was more than that sometimes and he was trying to get them to "be seen" as someone.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I mean how much does dental treatment cost in Australia? Aren't ones children entitled to some form of low cost treatment before the age of 18 and especially if one is on disability benefits?

Dental treatment can be quite expensive in Australia as it is not part of the Medicare system. There are a few government subsidised options for welfare recipients but they are few and far between.

Also note that this dentist visit was in Belgium so would have been user pays, or rather, in this case, user scams.

 

[mishy66]

At times, I think RB might have unwittingly used women, by getting them to change their hair colour.
I think the reason most likely had to do with some scam, and not because of his preference for hair colour.

Ages ago I thought, it was just to get them out of the house for awhile so he could ransack it.
But what if it was more than that sometimes and he was trying to get them to "be seen" as someone.

I go back and forth on this too.
When the sleep test was done on one of the victims though I thought WHY would he need to know the outcome of that sort of test?
The length of time to undergo these tests, the liver tests, the sleep tests and also a couple of victims for the hair colour change, obviously not all on the SAME day, DOES provide time. And time is a valuable commodity for a lying thieving creep.
He would have needed hours to go through all of the victims things at their homes. And having the place to himself knowing they were at actual appointments would give him space and time to fossick for treasure, find documents, check computers, address books maybe, and whatever else.

 

[mishy66]

Here is the Dentist that was shown. IF it is this actual dentist he took them to.

Cabinet dentaire Ixelles dental​

Chau. d'Ixelles 264 · Chau. d'Ixelles 264, 1050 Ixelles, Belgium

Chau. d'Ixelles 264, 1050 Ixelles, Belgium

www.google.com

 

[Housemartyn]

I feel pretty sure it was AH who phoned the school and anonymously reported Marion - spurring her to hastily leave her beloved career and head off to her demise. He is such a despicable piece of s**t. She must have felt extremely vulnerable after that.

He did this to poor GDB.