Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[MrPickles]

Evidence states he did steal their documents.

What personal identity documents did he steal from MC, GG-B, AF and GD? He love bombed quickly, had them withdraw large amounts, he stole their money, coins, stamps and anything of value - and anything that connects him to them on a personal level - then he took off. He didn’t need to steal their identity documentation. They sadly willingly handed over their life savings. These women are still alive.

MB’s identity documents needed to be stolen as it would seem by the first withdrawal she wasn’t willing or able to make those withdrawals.

 

[MrPickles]

To me it is all the same. He persuades them to give him their cash, under the table even. Waits conveniently close by. In my mind he never left the victims out if his sight. His methods adjust to each situation. its all in the inquest.

Yes. It is still possible it was MB making the withdrawals. It’s the 5k method that makes it unlikely for me.

 

[Newby171]

Yes. It is still possible it was MB making the withdrawals. It’s the 5k method that makes it unlikely for me.

I thought it was said that she set up a high interest earning account with a daily withdrawal limit of $5000.

 

[mishy66]

A time line with all the known dates would be fantastic

I would love to do a timeline of all the facts known this far, but in all honesty, it isn't worth it.
It will only be taken out of context and ripped apart and I honestly can't be bothered feathering the nest of one.
Someone needs to sit down and listen to the full inquests and realise that many sleuths since 2019 have done an outstanding job of gathering facts that we know fit the case, so we are wasting our breath and time typing up a factual timeline.

I would like to pay homage to the past sleuths who have found so much information previously and the KNOWN facts of the case so many of us now have and don't need constant hammering of proof to such. I can TOTALLY understand why many of them are no longer active on here. Some just make it too tiresome with the constant riding. It has become very obvious.

 

[MrPickles]

Marion had set up a bank account and the daily withdrawal of $5000

Yes. To have withdrawn the total amount she would’ve needed to give the bank notice, full identification and would have paid a fee.

If it were a term deposit account you had to give 28 days notice for early release (at least that was the case 5 years ago - not sure if it was back then) and pay a fee for early withdrawal.

I wonder if this is why there was a big time gap between the 5k withdrawals and the 80k transfer?

 

[MrPickles]

See that there is exactly why we will never be on the same page.
HE actually STOLE all of their documents, that means their person, their lifes worth, who they are, what they do, the only thing that sets them about from others, their identity. Leaving them stranded and alone.
And in doing so, left them vulnerable, hurt, lost and bewildered. Tore the very fabric from their being. He used them and left them without identity by stealing the only thing that showed the world who they were. That leaves the victim feeling overwhelmingly betrayed and isolated and no doubt embarrassed.

And he knows that that embarrassment is one strong reason why some women don't go to the police or even tell their families what has happened to them. Another tool in his kit.

Stealing someone’s life agency is not a document.

 

[MrsWattle]

Yes. It is still possible it was MB making the withdrawals. It’s the 5k method that makes it unlikely for me.

Marion set up a bank account after selling her house and the daily limit was $5000
Who ever drained the bank Marion / Imposter, IMO he would have all Marion's ID documents, he loved cold hard cash and his MO unscrupulous which ever way, he seemed to be flexible with every victim.
His facination with poison and disgusting descriptions of torture, ie burying people alive with wild cats, and the other story of deaths in Vietnam where he said he was a volunteer.
Ketamine might be his method of poison, hopefully daughter ER told authorities.
So many female victims over the years have been ignored and this is what I consider the biggest concern. Sadly statistics are horrific for Domestic violence in Australia.

 

[MrPickles]

Marion set up a bank account after selling her house and the daily limit was $5000
Who ever drained the bank Marion / Imposter, IMO he would have all Marion's ID documents, he loved cold hard cash and his MO unscrupulous which ever way, he seemed to be flexible with every victim.
His facination with poison and disgusting descriptions of torture, ie burying people alive with wild cats, and the other story of deaths in Vietnam where he said he was a volunteer.
Ketamine might be his method of poison, hopefully daughter ER told authorities.
So many female victims over the years have been ignored and this is what I consider the biggest concern. Sadly statistics are horrific for Domestic violence in Australia.

Totally agree. Everything fits IMO for it to have been the most heinous crime before the first withdrawal.

But even SL has stated she has had to come to terms with the ‘possibility’ it was MB making the withdrawals - and then something happened to her.

Unfortunately until there’s evidence to the contrary it remains a possibility.

 

[Newby171]

Yes. To have withdrawn the total amount she would’ve needed to give the bank notice, full identification and would have paid a fee.

If it were a term deposit account you had to give 28 days notice for early release (at least that was the case 5 years ago - not sure if it was back then) and pay a fee for early withdrawal.

I wonder if this is why there was a big time gap between the 5k withdrawals and the 80k transfer?

With all due respect, I think the people that gave evidence and know about the account, would already know this. This has already been covered in the inquest and podcast. Perhaps have a listen? There is so much information that is known already.I am certain we are not privy to everything as this is an investigation.But there are some many facts known already.

 

[MrPickles]

With all due respect, I think the people that gave evidence and know about the account, would already know this. This has already been covered in the inquest and podcast. Perhaps have a listen

Yes. I’ve listened. 2k limit at ATM, 5k in the bank. No fee. No bank can refuse an account holder of withdrawing their funds in their entirety - you would though be required to give notice and to pay a fee for withdrawing outside the original terms and conditions of that said account.

CBA refused to be part of the inquest, as was their right. There’s zero available information of MB’s account(S) details due to the passage of time (and the failure of the BB police) all knowledge is based on SL’s account of her conversation with the Commonwealth Bank phone banking operator.

Giving evidence was a former bank manager giving details of MB’s Colonial State account in Ashmore. That’s were the 80k lump sum transfer came out of. Not the 5k a day from the Commonwealth Bank, but a lump sum. A bank account SL didn’t know MB had set up - she only found out about it through FOI. It was a shock to SL as it showed her Mum had more money stolen than she ever realised.

Then we have loose evidence from a former Commonwealth Bank teller in Byron Bay talking of MB being airy fairy with a flower in her hair, tanned skin - and starting a knew life in Bali. This was the account where the 5k a day was coming out. A different account to Colonial State Bank.

Colonial State later merged with the Commonwealth Bank in the year 2000.

It I have this all wrong I sincerely apologise.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I’ve tried to catch up. Seems lots of conflicting banking opinions. — One thing I haven’t heard mentioned is RB’s talent for enticing women to do detrimental things: in this case female bank tellers. I would not be surprised if RB or RB instructing an accomplice (or even Marion!) concocted a fantastic story to make these transactions. While we imagine him keeping a low profile, his braggadocio gets the better of him. ie. “We’re in love and off to Europe but we don’t want her ex-husband to know. Can you help us?” Smoozing it up like with the car guy. Bank teller was a minimum wage job in the US 1990s. I think RB could have charmed a bank teller “helper.”

 

[MrPickles]

I’ve tried to catch up. Seems lots of conflicting banking opinions. — One thing I haven’t heard mentioned is RB’s talent for enticing women to do detrimental things: in this case female bank tellers. I would not be surprised if RB or RB instructing an accomplice (or even Marion!) concocted a fantastic story to make these transactions. While we imagine him keeping a low profile, his braggadocio gets the better of him. ie. “We’re in love and off to Europe but we don’t want her ex-husband to know. Can you help us?” Smoozing it up like with the car guy. Bank teller was a minimum wage job in the US 1990s. I think RB could have charmed a bank teller “helper.”

While it’s difficult to imagine after watching him give evidence at the inquest - there’s multiple victim accounts that he could charm the pants off anyone. So it wouldn’t be difficult for him to charm a teller with a romantic story.

 

[Newby171]

This is interesting for anyone who wants to read..
Commonwealth Bank had a product called “ Award Saver” in 1997. I am searching for product information. Perhaps someone has already found this?
also internet banking and b pay seem to have been launched that year.

https://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReportArchive/C/ASX_CBA_1997.pdf

History - 1991 onwards - CommBank

The Commonwealth Banks Restructuring Act of 1990 converted the Commonwealth Bank from a statutory authority to a public company with conventional share capital and part-Government ownership.

www.commbank.com.au

 

[KiwiNZ]

And given that Accor accommodations are now relevant to the case and that Accor was attached to Trendwest holiday program, it may be he didnt need to spend a cent on accommodation.

This damn Trendwest !! it's like a whack a mole - just keeps on popping up lol..

I personally feel like the person was correct and there was an association with Trendwest and the Remarkel name .. they say it was investigated and ruled out (no idea if it was TLV or police investigating) but how many things have the police missed !!!! including AH's FR Aus driver's license.

Trendwest was just to close to the HOYA for me to just rule it out!

 

[MrPickles]

Yes. I’ve listened. 2k limit at ATM, 5k in the bank. No fee. No bank can refuse an account holder of withdrawing their funds in their entirety - you would though be required to give notice and to pay a fee for withdrawing outside the original terms and conditions of that said account.

CBA refused to be part of the inquest, as was their right. There’s zero available information of MB’s account(S) details due to the passage of time (and the failure of the BB police) all knowledge is based on SL’s account of her conversation with the Commonwealth Bank phone banking operator.

Giving evidence was a former bank manager giving details of MB’s Colonial State account in Ashmore. That’s were the 80k lump sum transfer came out of. Not the 5k a day from the Commonwealth Bank, but a lump sum. A bank account SL didn’t know MB had set up - she only found out about it through FOI. It was a shock to SL as it showed her Mum had more money stolen than she ever realised.

Then we have loose evidence from a former Commonwealth Bank teller in Byron Bay talking of MB being airy fairy with a flower in her hair, tanned skin - and starting a knew life in Bali. This was the account where the 5k a day was coming out. A different account to Colonial State Bank.

Colonial State later merged with the Commonwealth Bank in the year 2000.

It I have this all wrong I sincerely apologise.

Yes. I’ve listened. 2k limit at ATM, 5k in the bank. No fee. No bank can refuse an account holder of withdrawing their funds in their entirety - you would though be required to give notice and to pay a fee for withdrawing outside the original terms and conditions of that said account.

CBA refused to be part of the inquest, as was their right. There’s zero available information of MB’s account(S) details due to the passage of time (and the failure of the BB police) all knowledge is based on SL’s account of her conversation with the Commonwealth Bank phone banking operator.

Giving evidence was a former bank manager giving details of MB’s Colonial State account in Ashmore. That’s were the 80k lump sum transfer came out of. Not the 5k a day from the Commonwealth Bank, but a lump sum. A bank account SL didn’t know MB had set up - she only found out about it through FOI. It was a shock to SL as it showed her Mum had more money stolen than she ever realised.

Then we have loose evidence from a former Commonwealth Bank teller in Byron Bay talking of MB being airy fairy with a flower in her hair, tanned skin - and starting a knew life in Bali. This was the account where the 5k a day was coming out. A different account to Colonial State Bank.

Colonial State later merged with the Commonwealth Bank in the year 2000.

It I have this all wrong I sincerely apologise.

Okay - I had another listen. Marion had accounts with Colonial State. My confusion was hearing from a gentleman from CBA and David Martin from Colonial State, Ashmore Branch Manager.

Interesting in listening to David again. Not verbatim but withdrawal amounts of over $10,000 a day would’ve been flagged - re: money laundering. He then goes on to say that he had further information that MB’s account was capped at $5,000 a day - I interpret this to mean anything over $5,000 would’ve been flagged, not the usual $10,000.

Another chap from CBA who was interviewed contacted police after listening to the podcast (can’t think of his name) said if $5,000 amounts were being withdrawn at the same bank every few days it would’ve been a red flag - but by going to various branches it would be less likely to be picked up. If someone withdrew a large amount stating it was to purchase a home for example that would be fine.
He further said he’s worked with other missing persons cases. He said MB’s was unusual as $14,000 was left in her account. He had her bank account closed (fees were still being charged) and the money transferred to unclaimed funds.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think I'm all "banked" out today.

I've developed a splitting migraine just thinking about all the possible scenarios.

 

[centred]

What personal identity documents did he steal from MC, GG-B, AF and GD? He love bombed quickly, had them withdraw large amounts, he stole their money, coins, stamps and anything of value - and anything that connects him to them on a personal level - then he took off. He didn’t need to steal their identity documentation. They sadly willingly handed over their life savings. These women are still alive.

MB’s identity documents needed to be stolen as it would seem by the first withdrawal she wasn’t willing or able to make those withdrawals.

I have had thoughts about the name change being something he didn't appear to do again ..

Previous to Marion phoning Sally its possible she had not seen or heard from RB for some time and was concerned enough to book that flight back to find him or she heard a and bull story from him that he had to return for business so she set off to clear it up in her mind, she is not stupid but could at this stage given him the benefit of any doubt , hence saying on incoming card she would be going back ,thinking the future in Lux was still viable ....

Obviously him thinking as he did with others they would be stuck overseas and he would have time to do the deed ..

Marion having a name change IMO buggered up his plans somehow so he never did the same again re name change ...that we know of and may have been something he did previous with others but not since ...

 

[KiwiNZ]

Into Mr Blums safety deposit envelope, I think it went.

agree he likes the cash, so far it's all been cash in brown paper bags .. not direct transfer

 

[centred]

Okay - I had another listen. Marion had accounts with Colonial State. My confusion was hearing from a gentleman from CBA and David Martin from Colonial State, Ashmore Branch Manager.

Interesting in listening to David again. Not verbatim but withdrawal amounts of over $10,000 a day would’ve been flagged - re: money laundering. He then goes on to say that he had further information that MB’s account was capped at $5,000 a day - I interpret this to mean anything over $5,000 would’ve been flagged, not the usual $10,000.

Another chap from CBA who was interviewed contacted police after listening to the podcast (can’t think of his name) said if $5,000 amounts were being withdrawn at the same bank every few days it would’ve been a red flag - but by going to various branches it would be less likely to be picked up. If someone withdrew a large amount stating it was to purchase a home for example that would be fine.
He further said he’s worked with other missing persons cases. He said MB’s was unusual as $14,000 was left in her account. He had her bank account closed (fees were still being charged) and the money transferred to unclaimed funds.

Yes a decent bank or society bank will call you if any withdrawals transfers etc to check as per rules , once satisfied you are the one who made the transaction, no further action is necessary

 

[KiwiNZ]

He further said he’s worked with other missing persons cases. He said MB’s was unusual as $14,000 was left in her account. He had her bank account closed (fees were still being charged) and the money transferred to unclaimed funds.

my understanding is the $14K is the money in the UK account that was then moved to unclaimed funds