Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[MrPickles]

Perhaps I’m getting the wrong end of the stick but in the UK my bank accounts in 1997 didn’t have a ‘passbook’ however my Building Society accounts that ran along similar lines to banks did. Saying that I didn’t have a large amounts of money to withdraw or move around so I can’t really comment on the procedures at that time especially in Australia.

There is a strong probability Marion was using travellers cheques when she came to the UK in order to fund her shopping etc.

Unfortunately Australian banking was well behind the times on the international banking scene for too many years.

I was stuck in Germany for 3 weeks in 2009 because my credit card didn’t have a PIN number. Australia was still predominantly swiping credit cards on an impression swipe machine to paper with a handwritten signature. In Europe it was all PIN numbers and eftpos machines - I had to wait until one was posted to me then wait for a separate PIN number to be mailed. I did have an AU PIN debit card - but I had no money in my account.

Trying to change my Mum from a passbook to an ATM card (she’s not much older than MB would be now) in 2010 was like pulling teeth trying to get her to make the change. Just very old school. Go to the bank on payday - withdraw a portion of your pay. Go and pay your individual bills with cash or post a cheque. A lot has changed in life since 1997.

 

[MrPickles]

I have no recollection of using a bank book in 1997. I most certainly had a card, a ”key card”, the old swipe system, I believe. I also had a pin number back then. From memory statements came via post. And I can remember using a very primitive phone banking to check balances. I also remember the bank having my signature at my local branch.

A lot depends on your age demographic. Even my son, now age 26 had a passbook as a child at school.

If MB had an ATM card you’d remember that in 1997 you had to handover your photographic drivers licence with it to make an in bank withdrawal with a ATM card. Mid 2000’s it became a swipe and pin.

If that was definitely the case - and MB had an ATM card. It was most likely MB doing the withdrawals if her licence pic was being handed over every single time for every withdrawal. IMO.

 

[Brown Alleycat]

The MBFB page wouldn't be putting a call out for accommodation in BB in 1997 if it wasn't relevant to the case.

And given that Accor accommodations are now relevant to the case and that Accor was attached to Trendwest holiday program, it may be he didnt need to spend a cent on accommodation. We dont know if he needed to spend a fortune on accommodation.
We dont have all the cards, so I'm keeping a very opened mind of this search they are doing.
So for me, its very relevant that they may have stayed in accommodation even if their home was half an hour away.

He's a criminal. Criminals dont think or act like one would expect.

We dont know all the cards in this case thus far.

It was only recently revealed he has over 50 aliases, prior to that it was around 30.

I suspect we only know the tip of the iceberg.

JMO of course

Definitely agree Mishy

 

[mishy66]

I have no recollection of using a bank book in 1997. I most certainly had a card, a ”key card”, the old swipe system, I believe. I also had a pin number back then. From memory statements came via post. And I can remember using a very primitive phone banking to check balances. I also remember the bank having my signature at my local branch.

Yes, many people remember having banking cards as apposed to bank books, from the early 80's I think it was they came out.

I just go by what is said by the SL team. They know as they have obviously have evidence of such - and some things are not revealed to the public because it is now an investigation.
Until such time the team says otherwise I stick to what they say at this point


And that was, that "Marion had a bank card eliminating the need to fill out bank forms and she would have also had her change of name documents " if she needed them - you had six months in which to change everything in your old name from the date you changed it, so you didn't really need to show your new name ID. But she had all these documents to access should she need to is what they are saying.

I think this case has shown that some banks don't play by the book - SL wouldn't be in this situation if they had done their job correctly when she first raised concerns in October 1997.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

This is my personal experience, it would have been somewhere between 1997-1999 big 4 bank in Victoria. Me as an early teen walked into my mum's bank with my mum's efpos card and her driver's licence with a stamp over the picture. I went in to withdraw cash, the teller asked me some basic questions like address and date of birth, asked me to sign then just handed the money over to me. And I merrily went on my way. It was all very easy to do for someone who knew the answers to the tellers questions. I will add to this my mum was out in the car and had asked me to get the money out and was very aware of what I was doing.

 

[MrPickles]

Yes, I just go by what is said by the SL team. They know as they have obviously have evidence of such - and some things are not revealed to the public because it is now an investigation.
Until such time the team says otherwise I stick to what they say

There are no banking records available from 1997. Nothing! SL and the team have been very clear.
The only bits of information they have are from FOI police records - and that one phone call SL made to the bank.

All evidence is based upon the memory of those willing to give evidence at the inquest of the most likely banking procedures at the time and their recognition or possible recognition of MB.

The CBA refused to become involved - which was their right.

SL has maintained her Mum was old school and not tech savvy. A bankcard and her FNMR ID is no proof of not using a bank book. A bank book being the most likely 1997 scenario IF someone posed as MB. No ID required. If not the case, it leans more towards MB making the withdrawals by having to identify herself for every single transaction. IMO.

 

[ruby925]

A lot depends on your age demographic. Even my son, now age 26 had a passbook as a child at school.

If MB had an ATM card you’d remember that in 1997 you had to handover your photographic drivers licence with it to make an in bank withdrawal with a ATM card. Mid 2000’s it became a swipe and pin.

If that was definitely the case - and MB had an ATM card. It was most likely MB doing the withdrawals if her licence pic was being handed over every single time for every withdrawal. IMO.

Except Marion's driving license was by then in the FNMR name?

 

[Newby171]

Yes, I just go by what is said by the SL team. They know as they have obviously have evidence of such - and some things are not revealed to the public because it is now an investigation.
Until such time the team says otherwise I stick to what they say

I agree

 

[MrPickles]

Except Marion's driving license was by then in the FNMR name?

Yes. There’s a transition period with deed poll change of name. She would’ve retained her MB drivers licence as identification until all transfer of name was completed, such as bank accounts, life insurance, insurances, superannuation etc.

 

[MrPickles]

This is my personal experience, it would have been somewhere between 1997-1999 big 4 bank in Victoria. Me as an early teen walked into my mum's bank with my mum's efpos card and her driver's licence with a stamp over the picture. I went in to withdraw cash, the teller asked me some basic questions like address and date of birth, asked me to sign then just handed the money over to me. And I merrily went on my way. It was all very easy to do for someone who knew the answers to the tellers questions. I will add to this my mum was out in the car and had asked me to get the money out and was very aware of what I was doing.

I hear what you’re saying - You can get away with something once - but 3 and a half weeks of it at 5k at a time and an 80k transfer from a different account it massive.

It takes massive kahuna’s to fake a photo identification time and time again if it wasn’t MB. To forge a signature after a couple of weeks of practice would be much easier IMO.

Having a wee chuckle at the opposition that MB didn’t have a passbook when there’s absolutely no evidence she didn’t.

Aren’t we all working together to find possible scenarios of how it may or may not have been MB at the bank?

 

[ruby925]

Yes. There’s a transition period with deed poll change of name. She would’ve retained her MB drivers licence as identification until all transfer of name was completed, such as bank accounts, life insurance, insurances, superannuation etc.

Ah, my understanding was that Marion had a driving license in FNMR name, ticked as secondary ID on her passport name change application and needed to hire a car in UK, maybe I just assumed that.

 

[ruby925]

Yes, many people remember having banking cards as apposed to bank books, from the early 80's I think it was they came out.

I just go by what is said by the SL team. They know as they have obviously have evidence of such - and some things are not revealed to the public because it is now an investigation.
Until such time the team says otherwise I stick to what they say at this point


And that was, that "Marion had a bank card eliminating the need to fill out bank forms and she would have also had her change of name documents " if she needed them - you had six months in which to change everything in your old name from the date you changed it, so you didn't really need to show your new name ID. But she had all these documents to access should she need to is what they are saying.

I think this case has shown that some banks don't play by the book - SL wouldn't be in this situation if they had done their job correctly when she first raised concerns in October 1997.

But as we know from other victims, RB liked to 'hold' all their docs, so It can only be assumed that MB had all her change of name docs at this point?

 

[mishy66]

Just to get back on the correct track with Marion in that only her recent passport and the licenses being the only things changed to FNMR name.

Everything else was still in her Marion Barter name. Her bank accounts, her superannuation, her will, all other personal documents.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Just to get back on the correct track with Marion in that only her recent passport and the licenses being the only things changed to FNMR name.

Everything else was still in her Marion Barter name. Her bank accounts, her superannuation, her will, all other personal documents.

Hence why it's likely she had to come back to access her money.

 

[mishy66]

But as we know from other victims, RB liked to 'hold' all their docs, so It can only be assumed that MB had all her change of name docs at this point?

Yes I personally believe 100% he held onto all documents - it was his MO as we have seen. Marion was no exception IMO.

I guess the SL team have to remain neutral in regard to who did the banking at this point. So they share what facts they can in relation to that.

 

[mishy66]

Hence why it's likely she had to come back to access her money.

Not if he held her MB identification - I believe he took all this when he helped her pack. Just as he did with the other victims that came after her. He left his own cousins wife stranded in a foreign country.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Not if he held her MB identification - I believe he took all this when he helped her pack. Just as he did with the other victims that came after her. He left his own cousins wife stranded in a foreign country.

That is very likely too.
Maybe this time stranded, but not able to get help after realising what he was up to and confronting him

 

[mishy66]

That is very likely too.
Maybe this time stranded, but not able to get help after realising what he was up to and confronting him

yes maybe
We have all worked on this case for so many years and that is the one thing we are no clearer on. Marion is out there somewhere and she needs to come home to her family.
Only one person ( maybe 2 ) know what happened to Marion and where she is.
Hopefully one day SL finds out what happened and has closure.

 

[Brown Alleycat]

yes maybe
We have all worked on this case for so many years and that is the one thing we are no clearer on. Marion is out there somewhere and she needs to come home to her family.
Only one person ( maybe 2 ) know what happened to Marion and where she is.
Hopefully one day SL finds out what happened and has closure.

So true Mishy. We all have that one goal and that is to find MB. We have all been on this journey together on this forum and am constantly amazed how much info comes through from members researching in Australia and overseas. I have come complete circles a number of times with what I think happened and value all your opinions. Keep up the great work everyone and hopefully someone might just find that missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[MrPickles]

Hence why it's likely she had to come back to access her money.

Yes. The strongest evidence suggests MB did truly return of her own volition - the alternative includes 2 extra players otherwise. A UK henchman and an imposter.

Is that truly likely?

We are speaking publicly about a beautiful strong woman who lost her mum at age 23. This is about Marion.

I joined WS to collaborate and help. (Absolutely not directed at you, Toots)

Tired of the games in here. Cant we all be proactive and brainstorm the evidence we have and team work?

We clearly have people on the ground in the UK and LUX/BEL. Huge advantage. We have people in NZ. Important.

We have the choice to truly collaborate and make a difference, or linger in one up man ship of likes on a forum. That’s not justice for Marion.

I’m new here. Zero interest in a particular role but I’m ready to brainstorm and collaborate, connect and truly follow up on leads to make a difference.

Where can we can actually help - Individually..