Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[ruby925]

He generally minds any documents for his marks for them ...see post above re JO he disappears with them as well in some cases ..he took them back to Australia is the suggestion

I get that, but Marion's case is unique because of the name change. I don;t understand which 'old documents' you are referring to..is the implication that Marion still had her Barter passport and driving license? If she did, then no reason to return to Australia?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Haha I had to laugh , mine still come via post ..

Some still do come by post.
One of mine which is less than 10 years old still comes by post.

 

[Kie22]

I think she figured it out and paid the price

Or possibly even paid the price before figuring it out if poisoning was his 'thing'. He would have known the game was going to be up when all her valuables and cash were gone. No new home in Lux, no UK school, no OE.... all shattered dreams.

 

[Housemartyn]

Or possibly even paid the price before figuring it out if poisoning was his 'thing'. He would have known the game was going to be up when all her valuables and cash were gone. No new home in Lux, no UK school, no OE.... all shattered dreams.

Poisoning? He had this on his mind all the time. From a young man. In difficult circumstances. Not making excuses but it appears that he had an appauling childhood.

 

[Laughing]

Poisoning? He had this on his mind all the time. From a young man. In difficult circumstances. Not making excuses but it appears that he had an appauling childhood.

imho as well as an appalling adulthood!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[mishy66]

But to say it’s his MO to steal their identity Docs is not correct.

Evidence states he did steal their documents.

 

[mishy66]

He steals the remainder of their sanity as a vulnerable human being. Far worse than their docs.

See that there is exactly why we will never be on the same page.
HE actually STOLE all of their documents, that means their person, their lifes worth, who they are, what they do, the only thing that sets them about from others, their identity. Leaving them stranded and alone.
And in doing so, left them vulnerable, hurt, lost and bewildered. Tore the very fabric from their being. He used them and left them without identity by stealing the only thing that showed the world who they were. That leaves the victim feeling overwhelmingly betrayed and isolated and no doubt embarrassed.

And he knows that that embarrassment is one strong reason why some women don't go to the police or even tell their families what has happened to them. Another tool in his kit.

 

[mishy66]

But he would have needed Marion's deed poll name change too as her passport and driving license was in the name of FNMR and her bank accounts still in the name of Barter.
I can understand him wanting Marion to dye her hair, new hair colour, new name etc more likely not to be recognised but no clue about the others.

He would have had her 1996 Marion Barter passport that she renewed just prior to her meeting him - another thing stolen at her home when he went to help her pack. IMO

 

[mishy66]

Searching for Marion Barter: a daughter’s 25-year quest to find her missing mother

This year’s coronial inquest into the case has revealed more shocking detail. For those of us who have spent years looking for answers, it has been confronting and baffling

www.theguardian.com

The final woman, Janet Oldenburgh, told the inquest she was contacted by Rick West after her husband left her. After she was granted sole ownership of her home she said that West asked her to start a fresh life with him on the French Riviera. She told the coroner she had given him power of attorney over her “in case something happens” before they flew to Europe, with West carrying all of Oldenburgh’s identity documents and title deeds in a small tapestry bag.

They travelled to the same places that Barter’s postcards had come from, before she said West left her with a cousin in Manchester, claiming that he had urgent business elsewhere and then that he’d been robbed, was in hospital and all her documents had been stolen. When Oldenburgh rushed back to her house, after borrowing money from her cousin to return home (she said West was unable to get her a return flight for weeks), she said she found West there – without any sign of injury.


One of his victims who lost all her indentity documents to him.

So yes it is one of his Mo's

Yes Janet is a good example of his MO

While she was dating him, she knew him as Ric West - she saw that he also went by the name Richard Lloyd Westbury and then he changed his name to Rich Richard via deed poll so she started calling him Rich.

Before leaving overseas, they both got new passports. AH assisted Janet with her new passport and he then collected it for her.

He made her take her documents Overseas
The title deed of her house
Her birth certificate
Her Aust citizen cert
Her POA cert
Her marriage cert
Keys to her house and $1000 in cash
He said to her that they were going to settle in Europe and she needed to be able to prove who she was.

So in JO's very statement there is proof he needs their ID

In Marion's case years earlier it is very feasible he stole her MB documents when he went to help her pack - WHY would he be so interested in helping anyone? He probably hasn't packed away the dishes in a dishwasher in his life, let alone help someone pack their house! UNLESS it was to benefit him.

 

[MrPickles]

Why did Marion draw her own funds in such a fashion? It doesn't make any sense. I believe that it definitely wasn't her because there was simply no reason for her to do it that way.

I totally agree. MB’s withdrawals are highly suspicious. Different to his other victims. He sent them off to withdraw large sums and they complied to his wishes. His love bombing MO is the same - but with MB, I sadly don’t believe she was alive by the calculated method of so many withdrawals. This is the difference between the cases IMO.

 

[Carovb5]

Have you received it now Carovb5?

Yes, thx!

 

[ruby925]

He would have had her 1996 Marion Barter passport that she renewed just prior to her meeting him - another thing stolen at her home when he went to help her pack. IMO

ah ok mishy, I don't think I have heard this before, I remember Marion's FNMR passport application form was shown at the inquest, presumably that would have shown the reason her Barter passport was not surrendered. RB has definitely 'lost' a passport or two...
All MOO.

 

[MrPickles]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> I suppose I’m suggesting his MO was a little different with MB because perhaps she didn’t comply. Perhaps she insisted on contacting her kids? Maybe by the time she returned she smelled a big rat by his disappearing acts OS. Were alarm bells ringing? Did she come to the realisation it was more fantasy he was feeding her than truth. As mentioned before, he moved very very quickly with the others - within weeks he had their money and fled. Was his mistake that he spent too many months with MB and that led her to believe all was not as it seemed.

I agree it looks like someone else was posing as MB at the bank. The nature of the withdrawals seem to be calculated to avoid providing photographic identification. Very different to his other victims.

 

[Jamaha]

Perhaps a crazy thought...any possibility he had both Marion and another taking turns withdrawing the funds? Whoever he was with that day?

 

[Newby171]

I totally agree. MB’s withdrawals are highly suspicious. Different to his other victims. He sent them off to withdraw large sums and they complied to his wishes. His love bombing MO is the same - but with MB, I sadly don’t believe she was alive by the calculated method of so many withdrawals. This is the difference between the cases IMO.

To me it is all the same. He persuades them to give him their cash, under the table even. Waits conveniently close by. In my mind he never left the victims out if his sight. His methods adjust to each situation. its all in the inquest.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

ah ok mishy, I don't think I have heard this before, I remember Marion's FNMR passport application form was shown at the inquest, presumably that would have shown the reason her Barter passport was not surrendered. RB has definitely 'lost' a passport or two...
All MOO.

Also one of RB's 'tells' is when he asks 'how could I do that?', 'why would I do that?' type questions and this is when he knows exactly how and why. On the subject of passports, at some point during the inquest he said that it's not possible to keep and use the previous one as the cover is cut - why would he offer up this challenge?

We've all seen out of date passports with the corners cut off. But if you ask for a replacement passport or a passport in your new name and claim the previous one is definitely accidentally destroyed, then you can keep the old one. He knows this full well and yet he chose to do one of his 'how could I do that, it's not possible?' phoney faux naive questions. He must think everyone's really stupid.

 

[MrPickles]

Searching for Marion Barter: a daughter’s 25-year quest to find her missing mother

This year’s coronial inquest into the case has revealed more shocking detail. For those of us who have spent years looking for answers, it has been confronting and baffling

www.theguardian.com

The final woman, Janet Oldenburgh, told the inquest she was contacted by Rick West after her husband left her. After she was granted sole ownership of her home she said that West asked her to start a fresh life with him on the French Riviera. She told the coroner she had given him power of attorney over her “in case something happens” before they flew to Europe, with West carrying all of Oldenburgh’s identity documents and title deeds in a small tapestry bag.

They travelled to the same places that Barter’s postcards had come from, before she said West left her with a cousin in Manchester, claiming that he had urgent business elsewhere and then that he’d been robbed, was in hospital and all her documents had been stolen. When Oldenburgh rushed back to her house, after borrowing money from her cousin to return home (she said West was unable to get her a return flight for weeks), she said she found West there – without any sign of injury.


One of his victims who lost all her indentity documents to him.

So yes it is one of his Mo's

Yes. I asked who apart from Fernand’s and JO. I agree it’s one of his MO’s, but it was said he steals his victims ID papers every time.

His other victims are alive to tell their story. On the other hand we have a woman missing for 26 years. Something went very wrong and MB’s ID was needed to make those withdrawals.

 

[mishy66]

ah ok mishy, I don't think I have heard this before, I remember Marion's FNMR passport application form was shown at the inquest, presumably that would have shown the reason her Barter passport was not surrendered. RB has definitely 'lost' a passport or two...
All MOO.

Marion had renewed her MB passport in the July 1996. She won Teacher of Year and her relationship with GE had ended around the same time in October. She then created a new will in the November 1996.

Which, when you look at it that she then signs an agreement to sell her house only 4 months later in the March 1997, it is pretty telling.

Yep passports are no problem for AH. "Lost passports and coming in on his "brothers" passport is testament to that.

 

[mishy66]

Also one of RB's 'tells' is when he asks 'how could I do that?', 'why would I do that?' type questions and this is when he knows exactly how and why. On the subject of passports, at some point during the inquest he said that it's not possible to keep and use the previous one as the cover is cut - why would he offer up this challenge?

We've all seen out of date passports with the corners cut off. But if you ask for a replacement passport or a passport in your new name and claim the previous one is definitely accidentally destroyed, then you can keep the old one. He knows this full well and yet he chose to do one of his 'how could I do that, it's not possible?' phoney faux naive questions. He must think everyone's really stupid.

Yes he is very sly.

I took it that he knew this about old passports as we all do, and also may have read about the cutting of cnr etc on here because prior to that remark of his, it was a long discussion on here for weeks. And we all know he reads everything and listens to everything.

But he shot himself in the foot with the remark because there is evidence he continued to use his "brothers" passport and his other aliases passports switching them up when it suited him.

His other little handbag of passports - passports for a criminal are the least of their worries. He has been doing this for over 40 years. He is a master at fraud. He does think everyone is stupid. AC put paid to that a few times over the inquests!

 

[MrsWattle]

I totally agree. MB’s withdrawals are highly suspicious. Different to his other victims. He sent them off to withdraw large sums and they complied to his wishes. His love bombing MO is the same - but with MB, I sadly don’t believe she was alive by the calculated method of so many withdrawals. This is the difference between the cases IMO.

Marion had set up a bank account and the daily withdrawal of $5000