Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[VisitorDog]

Until a few days ago I was firmly in the camp that MB did not withdraw the money. I found the 13 days between MB’s return and the first withdrawal to be a crucial timeframe - if answers can be found.

BUT, after re-listening to Missing Persons Officer, Trudy McKendrick’s evidence in TLV - The Inquest Part 8 (from 2 minutes 30) I’ve changed camps for the time being.

Her diary notes from November 1997 were quite convincing after speaking at length to a female teller from the Ashmore Colonial State Bank branch. A teller who knew and recognised MB as a customer - being it was a small branch they got to know their clientele. The teller was adamant it was MB who made the withdrawal transfer and that she also completed procedural paperwork checks of her identity. Due to privacy the teller wasn’t at liberty to tell the officer of MB’s location as she did not want to be found.

I had become so focused on AKA’s evidence I had forgotten Trudy’s compelling evidence. So at this stage I’m back to the crucial timeframe being from the 14th of October to the 17th (the day before Owen’s birthday)

I’m not suggesting anything about the specific teller in this incidence - but - there’s quite a compelling reason, from a job security perspective, for someone that has processed transactions of these sizes to be adamant they took the necessary safeguards.

 

[MrPickles]

I’m not suggesting anything about the specific teller in this incidence - but - there’s quite a compelling reason, from a job security perspective, for someone that has processed transactions of these sizes to be adamant they took the necessary safeguards.

I hear what you’re saying. I have considered this. But we also have the former Ashmore bank manager saying he recognised MB’s photo immediately as a local branch customer. He remembered a new high interest earning account was set up after the settlement of her house. This seems to be the 80k transfer account - her secondary account seems to be the 5k a day account. Evidence was given by 2 bank officials who found MB had two accounts. The 80k account was closed - the other still had a balance of 14k which has in recent years been been transferred to unclaimed funds.

I’m trying to give these people the benefit of the doubt. The police interview with the teller was only 5 weeks after MB’s account was closed. The female teller had no reason to say she knew MB if she didn’t. She could’ve just said she had never seen this woman before but she did all the relevant identification checks under bank procedure to pass muster to make a transfer - without going into any detail that she knew MB.

I’m not sure why the female teller did not give evidence. Likely they were unable to locate her. Perhaps this is a line of inquiry the TLV team are trying to follow up.

So for the moment - I’m back to it being MB doing the withdrawals.

 

[MrPickles]

No idea why I said Trudy McHendrick - brain fade. The Missing Persons Officer’s name is Paula MacKenzie. Apologies!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Another horrible thought, please forgive me, but if RB hasn't been known for murdering any of his victims since Marion then maybe it's because she put up a ferocious fight and caused him a lot of problems. Maybe he thought he'd better not have to go to all that bother again.

Or maybe she was the one who came closest to his 'real' life. Although, I still can't see how he could have done this to her and left her alive. She wasn't exactly located far from him and she would have a lot of evidence and support of the places they'd been, thing she remembered and noticed about him, people would have seen them together. How could he, in any case, leave her free to whip up a storm with the police, locals, friends and family all searching for him?

 

[caitlincurious]

new podcast episode just dropped!

 

[centred]

IMO - Someone would’ve definitely answered the ‘94 ad.

I still have a question mark over the mystery guy LL would see but was never introduced to in 1994. In her evidence MB was always very friendly over the fence, but she was never introduced to this man who would come and go. It’s wasn’t G the school gardener.

I started a post with notes ,but didn't post yesterday with time restraints , part thereof with this point.

I wondered if they had met previously and MB knew him as Remarkel (hence his little story about the train meeting in the car park when she "fell into arms ")

Cons do use association to recall events names etc ...A magician friend tried to teach me this technique in his act .

Anyway if so she knew him as FNR it can explain the continued con with that name when they hooked up again ....

Also Marion actually sold her house , unlike the others who resisted and he tried to get his hands on JO house with the deeds while she was overseas ...foiled by her return ...

I have more but time restraints at present,

I note MBMP fb has a call out for info around Iluka ....with the realization how close everythnig is re post the other day about things being a hop skip and jump from everywhere else and the suggestion she may have been interested in buying a house in the area .

 

[MrPickles]

I started a post with notes ,but didn't post yesterday with time restraints , part thereof with this point.

I wondered if they had met previously and MB knew him as Remarkel (hence his little story about the train meeting in the car park when she "fell into arms ")

Cons do use association to recall events names etc ...A magician friend tried to teach me this technique in his act .

Anyway if so she knew him as FNR it can explain the continued con with that name when they hooked up again ....

Also Marion actually sold her house , unlike the others who resisted and he tried to get his hands on JO house with the deeds while she was overseas ...foiled by her return ...

I have more but time restraints at present,

I note MBMP fb has a call out for info around Iluka ....with the realization how close everythnig is re post the other day about things being a hop skip and jump from everywhere else and the suggestion she may have been interested in buying a house in the area .

I too brought up a similar theory some weeks ago. MB was in a different headspace in ‘94. She’d just started at TSS and was loving it. She was renting next to LL and looking to buy a house. Any chance she did answer that ad? Form a relationship, but would have nothing to with a push to moving overseas at that stage in her life. Is it possible they reconnected in ‘97 when she was truly vulnerable.

All just speculation - but the ‘94-95 mystery man LL saw from time to time is definitely still question mark for me.

Totally agree a conman will always throw some truth in with their lies. Re the train station story.

Also while giving evidence, he stumbled - he’d maintained he answered MB’s ad - then at one stage he said MB had answered his ad.

 

[KiwiNZ]

there’s quite a compelling reason, from a job security perspective, for someone that has processed transactions of these sizes to be adamant they took the necessary safeguards.

But that wouldn't help the "teller" if the real person turned up, found out that their money had been handed to someone else, and the teller had ignored the police call to alert them to the fact they may have handed money to the wrong person ... while I have no idea if it was Marion or not ... your statement IMO only would apply if they teller knew the real owner of the account was never going to turn up

 

[centred]

I too brought up a similar theory some weeks ago. MB was in a different headspace in ‘94. She’d just started at TSS and was loving it. She was renting next to LL and looking to buy a house. Any chance she did answer that ad? Form a relationship, but would have nothing to with a push to moving overseas at that stage in her life. Is it possible they reconnected in ‘97 when she was truly vulnerable.

All just speculation - but the ‘94-95 mystery man LL saw from time to time is definitely still question mark for me.

Totally agree a conman will always throw some truth in with their lies. Re the train station story.

Also while giving evidence, he stumbled - he’d maintained he answered MB’s ad - then at one stage he said MB had answered his ad.

Yes and he added more issues for her to deal with with his report of her at the school , she would have been confiding in him things he could use in the con ...IMO only

while it is fresh , I wonder now if the move to Wollongbar was in anyway related to the contact Evelyn had with him re the recent podcast in 95/96 ? she could not quite pin down the date ,
Dianne receiving a call like that would have caused issues and they moved, cancelled the phone number etc.....As i recall she did not hear from him again until 20 odd years ago when she tracked him down again ...

And yes some descrepences re her having his contact number or his having hers at same stage too ....
perhaps she did have a contact before or after the move...at work , home , ...whatever ...he may have dropped out of her radar for awhile and then reconnected down the track , hence both are true , she connected to him through add .. lost contact and then he connected back with her when it suited ...

Anyway I am trying to keep relating stories we have to Marion ,trying not to get too side tracked ...

Its difficult because i think he has a tendency to obsess on "we are all bennieficeries "
And cash !!

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Yes and he added more issues for her to deal with with his report of her at the school , she would have been confiding in him things he could use in the con ...IMO only

while it is fresh , I wonder now if the move to Wollongbar was in anyway related to the contact Evelyn had with him re the recent podcast in 95/96 ? she could not quite pin down the date ,
Dianne receiving a call like that would have caused issues and they moved, cancelled the phone number etc.....As i recall she did not hear from him again until 20 odd years ago when she tracked him down again ...

And yes some descrepences re her having his contact number or his having hers at same stage too ....
perhaps she did have a contact before or after the move...at work , home , ...whatever ...he may have dropped out of her radar for awhile and then reconnected down the track , hence both are true , she connected to him through add .. lost contact and then he connected back with her when it suited ...

Anyway I am trying to keep relating stories we have to Marion ,trying not to get too side tracked ...

Its difficult because i think he has a tendency to obsess on "we are all bennieficeries "
And cash !!

Good point re at least one of the moves being due to AHs daughter (and possibly some of the marks) locating their home address.

 

[centred]

Good point re at least one of the moves being due to AHs daughter (and possibly some of the marks) locating their home address.

I dare say finding out your hubby had a daughter from the past pop up either again or for the first time if she wasnt privy to daughter before would or could cause a BIG problem , a separation but still within cooee of the kids school etc for awhile at least ...

I wonder now thinking on this ...is it possible AC is it ? coroners court knew this detail from Evelyn ?

 

[centred]

I dare say finding out your hubby had a daughter from the past pop up either again or for the first time if she wasnt privy to daughter before would or could cause a BIG problem , a separation but still within cooee of the kids school etc for awhile at least ...

I wonder now thinking on this ...is it possible AC is it ? coroners court knew this detail from Evelyn ?

Anyhow they moved back after MB affair ...

 

[Housemartyn]

There were a few officials desperately trying to cover their own backs at the inquest. I wouldn't give them the benefit of doubt.

 

[KiwiNZ]

ok so which is it - he was in an orphanage ( TLV podcast ) or he wasn't ?

keeping in mind the Facebook post was from a few weeks ago.

 

[Housemartyn]

ok so which is it - he was in an orphanage ( TLV podcast ) or he wasn't ?

View attachment 434169

Great point!! I think the podcast and Sally's army are slightly at loggerheads. It's a shame but can understand how this happens.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Great point!! I think the podcast and Sally's army are slightly at loggerheads. It's a shame but can understand how this happens.

Agree, it was bound to happen but also a shame, its Sallys story ... I just hope above all eles she gets the answer as to where her mother is, whatever it takes to get that answer.

 

[centred]

ok so which is it - he was in an orphanage ( TLV podcast ) or he wasn't ?

keeping in mind the Facebook post was from a few weeks ago.

View attachment 434169

Abel Wouters according to Blum at inquest was also known as Abel/Andree Florant . Flourent...variable spelling variants but thats what he said.....?????

I never did get to the bottom of that one , but so much more to go on with re Marion

 

[centred]

There were a few officials desperately trying to cover their own backs at the inquest. I wouldn't give them the benefit of doubt.

I would probably give the ones who gave statements 5 weeks out from the inquiries from Sal back then some benefit IMO

 

[Brown Alleycat]

After listening to the latest podcast episode, I feel like I have travelled to the center of the earth, stared into the abyss and travelled back again. I have so much admiration for Evelyn for sharing her sad story. When hearing her tell of RB inviting her to join him in his "Life Insurance" venture I couldn't help but think if he had taken out a life insurance policy, maybe in Luxembourg or Belgium, on MB in her new name, FNMR, and intended to claim on it once she was deceased very soon after being in England and intending to travel to Europe. He perhaps had an account in Europe in the name of FNR to which the insurance policy claim could be paid to. This could be the reason for the name change for MB before leaving Australia and maybe she realised whilst over in England that something was wrong and needed to come back to Australia to protect her money from being stolen. She may then have confronted RB once back in Australia.

 

[centred]

After listening to the latest podcast episode, I feel like I have travelled to the center of the earth, stared into the abyss and travelled back again. I have so much admiration for Evelyn for sharing her sad story. When hearing her tell of RB inviting her to join him in his "Life Insurance" venture I couldn't help but think if he had taken out a life insurance policy, maybe in Luxembourg or Belgium, on MB in her new name, FNMR, and intended to claim on it once she was deceased very soon after being in England and intending to travel to Europe. He perhaps had an account in Europe in the name of FNR to which the insurance policy claim could be paid to. This could be the reason for the name change for MB before leaving Australia and maybe she realised whilst over in England that something was wrong and needed to come back to Australia to protect her money from being stolen. She may then have confronted RB once back in Australia.

Yep it crossed my mind also