Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I too brought up a similar theory some weeks ago. MB was in a different headspace in ‘94. She’d just started at TSS and was loving it. She was renting next to LL and looking to buy a house. Any chance she did answer that ad? Form a relationship, but would have nothing to with a push to moving overseas at that stage in her life. Is it possible they reconnected in ‘97 when she was truly vulnerable.

All just speculation - but the ‘94-95 mystery man LL saw from time to time is definitely still question mark for me.

Totally agree a conman will always throw some truth in with their lies. Re the train station story.

Also while giving evidence, he stumbled - he’d maintained he answered MB’s ad - then at one stage he said MB had answered his ad.

JMO but I don’t believe Marion answered any ads in a niche French language publication. He was looking for French speakers. I don’t believe Marion placed an ad.

I might be wrong (not for the first time) but I’m going with Marion saying she met him, and it must have been him, at the Arts Centre.

 

[MrPickles]

JMO but I don’t believe Marion answered any ads in a niche French language publication. He was looking for French speakers. I don’t believe Marion placed an ad.

I might be wrong (not for the first time) but I’m going with Marion saying she met him, and it must have been him, at the Arts Centre.

I do believe it’s important we listen carefully to MB’s only agency for 26 years, her voice. What she told SL, her letters and postcards. I’m absolutely onboard here.

It’s just the question mark regarding an unknown semi frequent mystery male visitor in 94/95 that piqued my interest. MB was happy to introduce LL to Greg from school, but not the mystery man. He is at least worth noting - unless SL has resolved that persons identity and I cannot remember.

 

[Brown Alleycat]

JMO but I don’t believe Marion answered any ads in a niche French language publication. He was looking for French speakers. I don’t believe Marion placed an ad.

I might be wrong (not for the first time) but I’m going with Marion saying she met him, and it must have been him, at the Arts Centre.

I think this too. Perhaps they have seen each other a few times at the Art Center before actually starting a relationship.

 

[mishy66]

JMO but I don’t believe Marion answered any ads in a niche French language publication. He was looking for French speakers. I don’t believe Marion placed an ad.

I might be wrong (not for the first time) but I’m going with Marion saying she met him, and it must have been him, at the Arts Centre.

Yes I agree it had nothing to do with the advert he placed as MB FB page said the ad was in the December of 1994, she lived in QLD and in any case school had finished and they suggest it was around Feb of 1997

Marions wallet was stolen late 1996 and the woman was seen on cctv using her CC at a service station ATM and "looking just like Marion only a bit younger with the same hair " and sunglasses -

IMO this is how AH met Marion eventually. She may have had the Art Gallery card in her wallet and AH made contact that way - "a good Samaritan" contacting her through her ID and having done research on her then jumped at the chance.
Who was the woman????
JMO of course

And the man LL spoke of and Marion sister testified, was a BF Marion had at her previous school, and he was a married man ( maybe separated ? ) it was on the podcast. Soon afterwards Marion met GE

 

[Housemartyn]

Yes I agree it had nothing to do with the advert he placed as MB FB page said the ad was in the December of 1994, she lived in QLD and in any case school had finished and they suggest it was around Feb of 1997

Totally - AH wasn't interested in "relationships" anyway. All he wanted was fast hard cash.

 

[centred]

I think this too. Perhaps they have seen each other a few times at the Art Center before actually starting a relationship.

Yes I agree it had nothing to do with the advert he placed as MB FB page said the ad was in the December of 1994, she lived in QLD and in any case school had finished and they suggest it was around Feb of 1997

Marions wallet was stolen late 1996 and the woman was seen on cctv using her CC at a service station ATM and "looking just like Marion only a bit younger with the same hair " and sunglasses -

IMO this is how AH met Marion eventually. She may have had the Art Gallery card in her wallet and AH made contact that way - "a good Samaritan" contacting her through her ID and having done research on her then jumped at the chance.
Who was the woman????
JMO of course

And the man LL spoke of and Marion sister testified, was a BF Marion had at her previous school, and he was a married man ( maybe separated ? ) it was on the podcast. Soon afterwards Marion met GE

Yes I agree it had nothing to do with the advert he placed as MB FB page said the ad was in the December of 1994, she lived in QLD and in any case school had finished and they suggest it was around Feb of 1997

Marions wallet was stolen late 1996 and the woman was seen on cctv using her CC at a service station ATM and "looking just like Marion only a bit younger with the same hair " and sunglasses -

IMO this is how AH met Marion eventually. She may have had the Art Gallery card in her wallet and AH made contact that way - "a good Samaritan" contacting her through her ID and having done research on her then jumped at the chance.
Who was the woman????
JMO of course

And the man LL spoke of and Marion sister testified, was a BF Marion had at her previous school, and he was a married man ( maybe separated ? ) it was on the podcast. Soon afterwards Marion met GE

He could have met her many ways, its all speculation , thats what we all do ,

but I am curious about this wallet being stolen ?
why do you think so and how did that happen ?
when he supposedly had not met her yet and how did you come to the conclusion he had a female accomplice helping him ?

A female stole the wallet but how do you make the leap it was him and this women ...

I just never understood this scenario

 

[VisitorDog]

But that wouldn't help the "teller" if the real person turned up, found out that their money had been handed to someone else, and the teller had ignored the police call to alert them to the fact they may have handed money to the wrong person ... while I have no idea if it was Marion or not ... your statement IMO only would apply if they teller knew the real owner of the account was never going to turn up

I’m not sure that people always think that calmly and logically when put on the spot. Also, even if they thought the person might turn up, they might still think / want to say they completed the appropriate checks. And perhaps they did, perhaps even the wrong person had what looked like the right paperwork.

 

[VisitorDog]

I would probably give the ones who gave statements 5 weeks out from the inquiries from Sal back then some benefit IMO

Maybe, but back then was when she got a lot of potential misinformation too - your mother is fine and doesn’t want contact with her family.

 

[VisitorDog]

He could have met her many ways, its all speculation , thats what we all do ,

but I am curious about this wallet being stolen ?
why do you think so and how did that happen ?
when he supposedly had not met her yet and how did you come to the conclusion he had a female accomplice helping him ?

A female stole the wallet but how do you make the leap it was him and this women ...

I just never understood this scenario

We’ve found out far more crazy things in this story than a man like this possibly playing the long game with a wallet theft.

 

[centred]

Maybe, but back then was when she got a lot of potential misinformation too - your mother is fine and doesn’t want contact with her family.

Yes it is all a bit strange , but we cannot say for sure <modsnip>. I believe Marion was known to the bank as her local so there is no reason for me to not believe these people were correct that it was Marion , even Sally is fairly convinced until proven otherwise ..

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed. Discuss the post, not the poster !!

Members who can't post respectfully without engaging in bickering or personalizing will be removed from this discussion.

 

[Housemartyn]

Have we gleaned any extra info from the podcast? it often feels like Marion's case is running into a deep abyss - it's great to get everyone's stories. It helps to build an MO and a timeline with facts. But it's also very confusing with different witnesses giving different observations. I sincerely hope that the police are literally digging into this in every way possible. To make up for major shortfalls in the early years. Where's Marion?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If AKA was in an orphanage until 1951 (when aged 12 and 6 years after WW2 ended) then where were his younger ‘brothers’ Desire & Fredy (cousins according to AKAs own wife) during this time? Which orphanage and what type of orphanage? Was it holding child refugees from other war torn countries looking for sanctuary?

Did anyone go to visit AKA in this orphanage? His ‘father’ was dead and his ‘mother’ an amputee. Would they still recognise him if he was sent to the orphanage at a very early age?

If he was reunited with his family in Germany in 1951 this might explain his fluent use of German (according to ‘Charlotte’). But I return once again to how did he become fluent in Hungarian? He was apparently Belgian by birth with no connection to Hungary until IK comes into his life in the late 1960s when she too was in Belgium.

JMO but something doesn’t feel right.

 

[ruby925]

If AKA was in an orphanage until 1951 (when aged 12 and 6 years after WW2 ended) then where were his younger ‘brothers’ Desire & Fredy (cousins according to AKAs own wife) during this time? Which orphanage and what type of orphanage? Was it holding child refugees from other war torn countries looking for sanctuary?

Did anyone go to visit AKA in this orphanage? His ‘father’ was dead and his ‘mother’ an amputee. Would they still recognise him if he was sent to the orphanage at a very early age?

If he was reunited with his family in Germany in 1951 this might explain his fluent use of German (according to ‘Charlotte’). But I return once again to how did he become fluent in Hungarian? He was apparently Belgian by birth with no connection to Hungary until IK comes into his life in the late 1960s when she too was in Belgium.

JMO but something doesn’t feel right.

The orphanage story was given by RB. Marion's Facebook team have recently said that his mother lost one leg (not both) and RB was taken in by his Aunt and did not go into an orphanage.. I can only presume this info came from living family members, eg the relative who was on the latest podcast.

 

[ruby925]

Listening to the podcast today, where IK's daughter was told by RB that her mother was a , she should become a prostitute if she didn't join in his planned insurance scam etc just reminded me how RB easily gives things away, eg what he thinks of women. IK was a , MB was 'insatiable' when it came to sex, GGB seduced him with her belly dancing, AF couldn't even hold a conversation because of dementia etc. As has been said before, the only woman that he didn't trash at the inquest was MC..and that might change if he is interviewed again having heard her testimony.

 

[caitlincurious]

The orphanage story was given by RB. Marion's Facebook team have recently said that his mother lost one leg (not both) and RB was taken in by his Aunt and did not go into an orphanage.. I can only presume this info came from living family members, eg the relative who was on the latest podcast.

I think the poster is reacting to the latest podcast, in which Alison very clearly states that RB was in an orphanage until 1951 when he was almost a teenager (first 5 min of episode). If this is misinformation then it’s just bad journalism to leave it uncorrected. however, no offence to J, but her FB comments aren’t always accurate. I don’t think we should be so quick to assume we have the facts straight and they don’t

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don’t think we should be so quick to assume we have the facts straight and they don’t

Or vice versa.

 

[MrPickles]

Yes it is all a bit strange , but we cannot say for sure <modsnip>. I believe Marion was known to the bank as her local so there is no reason for me to not believe these people were correct that it was Marion , even Sally is fairly convinced until proven otherwise ..

While the early investigation out of BB was definitely mishandled in ‘97 (evidence by police commissioner)
It seems from the 2 missing persons officers, evidence protocols were followed. If there’s strong enough evidence to support the location of a missing person - not just sighted, but recognised as a customer - as with many missing persons who leave of their own volition, it’s their right to privacy. The officer themselves do not need to sight that person. It’s listed as located, not wanting to be found.

At this point in time - I’m sticking with the evidence thus far. I understand that some people might choose to protect themselves whilst giving evidence, I just can’t come to the conclusion we have many witnesses distorting the truth. The Ashmore teller had no reason to say she knew MB as a customer if she didn’t. Particularly being so adamant and stating that ID protocols still had to be followed as procedure. I live in hope this teller can be found.

The reason the teller’s name wasn’t in the MPO’s diary was because their diaries were just for brief notes of the day. It was the daily running sheets in which they’d write their very detailed reports including names, times, descriptions of events and evidence. The running sheets are unfortunately no longer available. As with much of this case.

Having said all this - I still strongly believe MB is no longer with us and not of her own accord. It’s just changed my opinion of the timeline now being very soon after the last withdrawal on the 15th of October when her account was closed.

If anything, it gives me more hope that someone who is yet to come forward spotted her on the Gold Coast.

 

[MrPickles]

If AKA was in an orphanage until 1951 (when aged 12 and 6 years after WW2 ended) then where were his younger ‘brothers’ Desire & Fredy (cousins according to AKAs own wife) during this time? Which orphanage and what type of orphanage? Was it holding child refugees from other war torn countries looking for sanctuary?

Did anyone go to visit AKA in this orphanage? His ‘father’ was dead and his ‘mother’ an amputee. Would they still recognise him if he was sent to the orphanage at a very early age?

If he was reunited with his family in Germany in 1951 this might explain his fluent use of German (according to ‘Charlotte’). But I return once again to how did he become fluent in Hungarian? He was apparently Belgian by birth with no connection to Hungary until IK comes into his life in the late 1960s when she too was in Belgium.

JMO but something doesn’t feel right.

I have no answers, LPF, but a lot of misplaced Jewish children were placed in Belgium Orphanages during WW11, including Hungarian children. IF he was in fact in an orphanage - it’s likely he learned Hungarian and other languages during that time.

 

[Deleted member 83851]

@CuriousKat99, @MrPickles, @mishy66 thanks for feedback. I’ll correct. I thought it was stated Marion made her first withdrawal long after her supposed return but couldn’t remember where. The Guardian said Marion withdrew right away. So which is it and that seems a huge difference. If Marion planned to stay 8 days in Australia but waited 13 days to start withdrawing money then something is very wrong, and I have a hard time imagining a scenario to explain that.

Yes, the distance and triangulation always struck me as very strange. Obviously it could’ve been someone else using MB’s Medicare Card as a false lead. So much we don’t know.

The mention of land at Nymboida to JO is quite chilling IMO - So close to Grafton.

What went on between MB’s return on the 2nd of August through to the first withdrawal on the 15th? Was MB sick? If only the Novotel still had check in and check out records.

As a further note: Grafton to Armidale (A crime stopper’s caller claimed MB was buried in Armidale) is 2 hours 40 minutes drive. You drive through Nymboida to get to Armidale. Just thought I’d mention it.

In and amongst Mr. AKA’s ridiculous posterings is the claim of owning part of the Nymboida forest.

For some reason I can’t let this go.

Maybe it is the creepy feeling I get thinking of him owning a piece of that beautiful place, “out in the middle of nowhere” as one travel writer described Nymboida on his blog.

JMO, what do I know.