Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[KiwiNZ]

Holy *advertiser censored*, poor Evelyn, assaulted by biological father when she was 11 (according to Michael). What a horrendous childhood.

I am BLOWN AWAY at how put together, articulate, and calm Evelyn is in this tempest of a life, this mess of a family.

Is C. Reid RB’s son? What a mess. I have so many questions.

No - Ilona by her father

 

[KiwiNZ]

Is C. Reid RB’s son? What a mess. I have so many questions.

I am going to assume that the reason CR's last name was Wouter was because Ilonas last name was Wouter - I don't think they said WW was the father on the birth cert

someone correct me if I am wrong please

 

[KiwiNZ]

I don’t reeeally like Michael, who seems very bitter - but I am inclined to believe what he says about the “agreement” about taking custody of Evelyn being a lie/falsification by RB. He is literally a con artist. It’s not a stretch AT ALL to believe that RB fabricated a signature by Michael or impersonated him. Also, he doesn’t seem like someone who would lie about signing documents given how open he’s been about everything else.

Sadly, he’s clearly of ‘that’ generation. I don’t think he’s the same brand of evil as RB (and frankly I don’t think it’s relevant).

NB: I am still listening to the episode

I didn't find him bitter, he clearly loved Ilona and when you that heartbroken your life can get really out of control and bad decision made - but I agree I think RB signed his name or got someone to do it

For example MR said he was a mess when she died and couldn't face her death, took the blame for not getting Ilona a headstone etc... CR was upset his mother didn't have a headstone, but he himself hasn't bothered to get her one either ... people in glass houses and all ... I don't blame either of them, it is what it is and happens and people make terrible mistakes and decisions .... but it would be nice if others could give people the same pass they give themselves.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I am going to assume that the reason CR's last name was Wouter was because Ilonas last name was Wouter - I don't think they said WW was the father on the birth cert

someone correct me if I am wrong please

I recall reading somewhere else that WW was named as the father on CR’s birth certificate as well. CR could well have been another one of AKA’s biological children. Alternatively, IK may have thought it best to register her son as having married parents rather than have her son labelled as a “” which in those days would have been a significant disadvantage throughout his life. AKA may also have encouraged IK to name himself as the father to suit whatever business activities he was up to at that time. Only a DNA test will tell the truth.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I recall reading somewhere else that WW was named as the father on CR’s birth certificate as well. CR could well have been another one of AKA’s biological children. Alternatively, IK may have thought it best to register her son as having married parents rather than have her son labelled as a “*advertiser censored*” which in those days would have been a significant disadvantage throughout his life. AKA may also have encouraged IK to name himself as the father to suit whatever business activities he was up to at that time. Only a DNA test will tell the truth.

Thanks I will go back and listen again .. could have had something to do with getting a passport or residency as well as I assume MR wasn't a resident?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

There must be some sort of document to say M is the father as CR said his dad travelled back to Belgium at some stage and had his name recorded as Reid so there’s gotto be something to prove that right?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Also.. if CR was born in Tournai did IK and MJR live in tournai? Is that odd? I mean out of all of the towns in the world would you move to where your ex hubby is from? That exact town??

I’m confused think I need to Re listen to the episode

 

[Brown Alleycat]

Also.. if CR was born in Tournai did IK and MJR live in tournai? Is that odd? I mean out of all of the towns in the world would you move to where your ex hubby is from? That exact town??

I’m confused think I need to Re listen to the episode

Yes, I need to re listen as well. I thought it was said that IK & MJR were living near IK's mother as she would babysit but not sure if that was around the time CR was born or later.

 

[KiwiNZ]

At least we got confirmation that RB is a Gambler

 

[Nnbee]

yes this is the first kind of confirmation of the gambling right?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

At least we got confirmation that RB is a Gambler

It’s so much easier to gamble with other peoples money. If you lose just find another victim.

I’m still sticking to some of the Ill-gotten gains going on the ‘orses and European casino’s.

 

[Nnbee]

How can we be sure that RB children haven’t spoken to LE? Maybe they have made statements but we just don’t know yet ?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

How can we be sure that RB children haven’t spoken to LE? Maybe they have made statements but we just don’t know yet ?

I thought the inquest indicated they had been questioned

 

[mishy66]

There must be some sort of document to say M is the father as CR said his dad travelled back to Belgium at some stage and had his name recorded as Reid so there’s gotto be something to prove that right?

It is confusing! and I have listened to it 4 times already. There is SO much in it.

We know what MJR looks like and some of the family and CR does say MJR remarried a Jewish lady so that sits with what we have already found.

I am having some doubt with my first observations on MJR and his interview. A lot of it does make sense to me with what we know but cant post on thread. I do believe a lot of what he says and it is also possible that IK may not have revealed all to him about AH because she knew AH was dangerous and it does sound like she was still in love with him even after marrying MJR. It may have been a marriage of convenience for her to get out of AH clutches?

I have it as IK divorce from AH had not come through nor Chris' name change, but they wanted to get out and back to Aust so using Chris birth cert under Wouters they gained a passport in that name for him in Hungary (even though he was born in Tournai).
He believed he was WW son until he confronted MJR with his birth cert and PP after Evelyn showed him yrs later and MJR told him he would sort it out and flew back to Belgium and it cost him to do so.

Also been looking at the fact he is born in Tournai - ( that alone is fascinating - as you say WHY there? ) in July 1972 - going on MJR saying July birthday celebrations

So if Chris' birthday is July 1972 then IK would have fallen pregnant in the October of 1971

Where was AH - after his Chusan trip meeting Diane, he arrives back in Amsterdam May 1971 and within weeks
23 June 1971 - arrested in France - sentenced to 4 years prison in December 1971


MJR says that IK took Evelyn to see AH not long after they met and that he didn't know at the time
and that he and IK were on the ferry back to the UK 1970 or 1971

We know that IK went to France with Evelyn to AH and lived with him for a short time / weeks, until just prior to his arrest in June 1971
Maybe MJR account of 1970 is incorrect so that leaves 1971 that they are on the ferry to the UK
It could be that MJR is referring to this time that IK lives with AH ?

IF SO then it is possible that MJR is Chris father because IK had already left AH pre JUNE arrest.

IF Chris is his biological son then I am at a loss to understand HOW he could have possibly given up his son at least, aside from his step daughter, 2 weeks after their mother dies. 2 weeks. He says he was grieving, what about the kids losing both mother and father all within 2 weeks! How they have managed to be the beautiful adults they are, having to endure such a life is testament to the formative years with their mother and grandmother. 2 beautiful humans born into a SStorm.

This whole thing is so warped.




TLV also leads people to believe that AH and IK were in Belgium at the same time in early 1977
MJR said IK flew to her mother for 3 months in the October 1976 - so that means she returned to Australia in January 1977

TLV says AH arrives into Aust March 1977 from the UK - for 5 days

We know he is in France from around 1976 to 1977
AH is arrested in Luxembourg February 1977 under RL
So it possible he was in Belgium when IK was

And MJR recollection that IK brother died in 1979 not 1977.
I am still not convinced that IK brother dying of a brain hemorrhage in 1979 , IK mother dying of cancer in 1977 is related to AH - after listening to CR and MJR


And then theres that LARGE discrepancy on IK death cert - which as we know anyone can say anything and it will be documented without proof.

But for now, I believe at lot of what MJR says. It is possible AH has also played MJR for a monetary gain in his favour?

 

[mishy66]

yes this is the first kind of confirmation of the gambling right?

No Diane said at inquest he had 'small wins'

 

[mishy66]

I thought the inquest indicated they had been questioned

They were interviewed but no statements made - MBFB Page

 

[Belleandsebastian]

MR - I found him straight up personally, but TLV team seem to like to burn bridges, instead of letting us come to our own conclusion, they feel the need to disrespect people and give their opinion which IMO is not always on point, something sjust don't need to be said.

Why even bring up if the son is RB's, who cares it doesn't solve the case and only hurts more people, how would they like that seed of doubt planted in their heads about their children.

And AS comes across as sanctimonious and I think I am almost done with the podcast, I just cringe all the way through.

Agree. I feel like they were lucky to get him to agree to the interview and regardless of whether he’s a good person or not, he’s hardly likely to want to talk to anyone else on the record again about any of this. They definitely burn bridges.

 

[Housemartyn]

MR - I found him straight up personally, but TLV team seem to like to burn bridges, instead of letting us come to our own conclusion, they feel the need to disrespect people and give their opinion which IMO is not always on point, something sjust don't need to be said.

Why even bring up if the son is RB's, who cares it doesn't solve the case and only hurts more people, how would they like that seed of doubt planted in their heads about their children.

And AS comes across as sanctimonious and I think I am almost done with the podcast, I just cringe all the way through.

Totally agree with you on this 100%!

 

[Housemartyn]

I am getting very frustrated with the podcast. I just feel that it's going totally off track and milking Sally's story about her missing mum. There will be realms of tales about AKA and his scams and hopefully it will be evidence to get him locked up. It should be anyway... Fingers crossed he gets a sentence.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Ip