Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[mishy66]

I find the NAA a bth to search, but maybe it's just me lol .. but wondering if we can find incoming passenger cards around the same time as Marion with correction on them to figure out if that is typical of customs / immigration to do ?

Unfortunately NAA records are only on open access after 20 yrs I think and then some arent available ???
I think this is why we could never find records on Marion new name until the inquest started ?

 

[lrb66]

But he left before she called Sally on the 1st August...

IMO
Didn’t he explain/impart to his daughter Evelyn how to poison someone?
He gives them a substance (unspecified but stated to Allison Sandy)
They take a few weeks to die
They develop flu like symptoms
No trace(allegedly) of poison left??

 

[Martinie]

He would have had to have someone else do his dirty work if Marion was overseas. She wouldn't have waited a year for him to return. This makes me think more about who Maz and the dentist are and how she met them. Did they keep her busy and take her to some put of the way place to discard of her while he went back to Aus and emptied her bank accounts? Gaaahhhh! It's so frustrating.

 

[mishy66]

He would have had to have someone else do his dirty work if Marion was overseas. She wouldn't have waited a year for him to return. This makes me think more about who Maz and the dentist are and how she met them. Did they keep her busy and take her to some put of the way place to discard of her while he went back to Aus and emptied her bank accounts? Gaaahhhh! It's so frustrating.

He used is R Westbury PP numerous times over many years - 10 OS trips from 1992

That is just on that PP - what other PP's did he use ?

He could have had someone do his dirty work OS for sure.
Or he could have gone back himself to make sure MB never came back to Australia again.

 

[Martinie]

He used is R Westbury PP numerous times over many years - 10 OS trips from 1992

That is just on that PP - what other PP's did he use ?

He could have had someone do his dirty work OS for sure.
Or he could have gone back himself to make sure MB never came back to Australia again.

Well I was just thinking he could have travelled back on a completely fake pp or another alias that hasn't been found on any flights out of Aus, but I think they have all his aliases now, unless he used some else's identity to create more aliases?? I don't even know anymore...

 

[mishy66]

Well I was just thinking he could have travelled back on a completely fake pp or another alias that hasn't been found on any flights out of Aus, but I think they have all his aliases now, unless he used some else's identity to create more aliases?? I don't even know anymore...

Totally agree.
He definitely could have used a passport that we, the public, dont know about yet!
They have only released a small number of the 50 odd aliases he had and passports so who knows what the other names are.
He certainly didn't stop going overseas after coming back in July 1997 that year IMO
6 months of staying in Australia the rest of 1997 ?? Going on his past travels I doubt that very much.

 

[Martinie]

Totally agree.
He definitely could have used a passport that we, the public, dont know about yet!
They have only released a small number of the 50 odd aliases he had and passports so who knows what the other names are.
He certainly didn't stop going overseas after coming back in July 1997 that year IMO
6 months of staying in Australia the rest of 1997 ?? Going on his past travels I doubt that very much.

I agree. I was just going off the available information that we have and trying to make it fit, which it doesn't when looking at all aspects of this case. I also wonder what online dating he had been getting into since I only heard of 1 person saying he had tried to scam her on a dating website, but I can't remember if I heard that at the inquest or somewhere else.

 

[mishy66]

I was trying to do a timeline of events from when Marion left Australia - so tricky with finding dates with all he has done just in that 6 mth period !



**********************

1997

Late 1996 - deH family move from Ballina to another house in Wollongbar - 20 mins away - Daughter is driven to high school every day & son goes to Lismore Uni by public transport - both live at house. - (setting himself up for a sting IMO)

17 June 1997 - AH flies out of Australia - *Richard Westbury (flies out of Aus on his illegal PP with this name - he is now known legally as FdeH - so his documents never match up)*

22 June 1997 - MB / FNMR flies out of Australia

31 July 1997 - AH flies back into Australia from Amsterdam - *Richard Westbury (returned to Aus on his illegal passport )*

*AC questions him in regards to his "cheap JAL air fares - "They came to a screeching halt on 31/7/97"

1 August - the day MB calls SL , claiming to be in Tunbridge Wells

1 August 1997 - The closure of Willy Coppenolle business - registered since 1974

2 August - passenger card for Florabella R arrives into Australia, originating out of Amsterdam

7 August - the postcard sent to Marions sister with the Tunbridge Wells postmark

7 August - RACQ Roadside Assist Policy canceled by phone

10th August - the day MB leaves Novotel as per passenger card

11 August - AH buys a car in Alstonville, near his home in WOLLONGBAR NSW

13 August - Her MEDICARE CARD under the name Marion Barter was USED AT GRAFTON NSW for an initial eye consultation - The Grafton records show one visit for eye exam only

18 August to 28 August - WITHDRAWALS start at BYRON BAY BANK - 30 minutes from AH home and Burleigh Heads in QLD = Byron Bay / Burleigh Heads / Byron bay

30 August - another postcard arrives to family

1 September - MB credit card used for a purchase

21 September - Rick dH - an official for the Far North Coast Swimming Association - doesn't turn up to do his job at the Opening Event Swim Meet at the Grafton Pool - where his kids were racing

* He was Vice President and Diane was Secretary and sponsors of trophies for their kids events*

24 & 25 September - a few days after the Grafton Opening Event - M deH competes at Aust Swimming Championships Sydney International Aquatic Centre - who went with her?

5 & 6 October - Aust Open Championships Chandler Brisbane - did the kids go to watch the dream team or compete??? IF SO, who took them

14 October - AH pays $13 to put something into safe custody deposit facility at Commonwealth Bank in Ballina, which only he can access

15 October - 80K final electronically transfer from MB account in Ashmore into another account

18th & 19 October 1997 - Alstonville Pool Swim Meet - job listed as a race starter that day- both kids competing

18 Oct 1997 - Owen’s birthday

20 OCTOBER 1997 - SL reports Marion as a missing person at BB police station.

Late October 1997 - The dH family move from their HOUSE in Wollongbar back to ‘The Terrace’ Angel Beach Ballina into a tiny UNIT


1998 - He meets GGB - her advert placed march 1998

Mid 1998 Lennox Heads PO burns to the ground. - the same PO his FR advert address shows

1999 - they move into another Unit in the same Ballina complex - (getting ready for the next victim IMO)

1999 - JO - new victim
**********************************************

*A QLD license under Fernand Nocolas REMAKEL expires the end of 1997 after it being renewed in 1992

Final day of Inquest - at the time you had a QLD drivers license in the name of FR.
AH - " yes I had for a certain time until it disappeared, it was stolen from me or lost it, because previous I cant remember if it was Ballina or Byron I.... I... I... I... er... er... er... can you repeat the question."
( First time he ever talked of Byron Bay)

*From 1992 to 1997 the potential for more victims using the FR 'alias' and this license, along with his 1994 advert, is huge IMO

Multiple trips OS, the PO box and office with the phone number used connected to the Advert, Ballina Coin Investments owned by AH and Diane, was right up until MB trip in 1997

Over 50 aliases and 12 deed poll name changes for 1 psycho

 

[KiwiNZ]

Unfortunately NAA records are only on open access after 20 yrs I think and then some arent available ???
I think this is why we could never find records on Marion new name until the inquest started ?

Thats right! doh .. thank you

 

[KiwiNZ]

IMO
Didn’t he explain/impart to his daughter Evelyn how to poison someone?
He gives them a substance (unspecified but stated to Allison Sandy)
They take a few weeks to die
They develop flu like symptoms
No trace(allegedly) of poison left??

I think it this was the case, someone would have found her dead, like in her B&B or something, he would need help to pull anything like that off, or she would have seen a Dr since he wasn't there to control her ... IMO

 

[lrb66]

I think it this was the case, someone would have found her dead, like in her B&B or something, he would need help to pull anything like that off, or she would have seen a Dr since he wasn't there to control her ... IMO

Perhaps my scenario works better if others are eventually involved and the place she was calling from wasn’t Tunbridge Wells but somewhere much much more isolated
He had compliance tested Marion
IMO. All MOO

 

[Deleted member 83851]

IMO Monsieur AKA poisoned Marion while they were both in the UK, she or her passport travelled to Amsterdam, she either died there or in UK, his associates made sure she had no identification.

 

[Newby171]

Unfortunately NAA records are only on open access after 20 yrs I think and then some arent available ???
I think this is why we could never find records on Marion new name until the inquest started ?

have you noticed the spelling of Remakel?

 

[Candytuft]

I was just wondering about the Dutch dentist and his companion, Maz. My friend Marion used her nickname - Maz, a common shortening( like Kaz ) I would be interested to know what she looked like. Could this Maz have been assuming Marions identity for the trip back ?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I was initially of the opinion Marion never came back. The thing that made me doubt this was the optometrist appointment in Grafton on the 13 Aug 97. We know Marion had an eye issue. If it was a ruse to deceive authorities then wouldn’t the name change have achieved that already?

Saying that it is entirely possible there is another actor in Marion’s case who flew in as Mrs Remakel (playing the part of a Luxembourg housewife) but left Australia again in Oct 97 under their real identity when the deed was done. Would this be picked up at passport control back in 1997 that someone left Australia without ever entering?

I would love to know when Aka next went back to Europe after returning to Australia on the 31 July 97. Did any accomplice return to Europe at or around the same time? Hopefully this date will be disclosed after the Coroner’s findings next month as I can’t see any reason to keep this away from public knowledge now.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Perhaps I'm delusionally optimistic but I have a feeling there's got to be thousands of people who are now aware of this case that have known the family over the years. Particularly other school parents and neighbours.

They must have been racking their minds to think of anything pertinent that they ever heard, saw, or got brought up in conversation.

I'd imagine they'd be giving information directly and confidentially to LE and not posting on FB or any other public forum. So there's probably a ton of stuff we don't know about.

I also imagine that there's a huge network of dodgy dealers and 'black market economy' people RB has interacted with over the years who are sitting tight and hoping no-one comes to ask them any questions.

JMO MOO

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Aka said he was around 3 years old (so around 1942) when his ‘mother’ lost her legs (leg as we now know) and was in an orphanage (when he ‘walked out of the orphanage’) until 1951 (presumably without his 2 ‘brothers’) so was aged around 12. No mention of his ‘mother’ or ‘step-father’ coming looking for him. He then seems to rejoin them in Germany.

He says his birth father had the surname deH which doesn’t fit in with his ‘brothers’ father surname of ‘David’.

Would a family recognise their former 3 year old ‘son/brother’ when he reappears as a 12 year old? I ask as I looked very different in photos between those ages.

 

[KiwiNZ]

IMO Monsieur AKA poisoned Marion while they were both in the UK, she or her passport travelled to Amsterdam, she either died there or in UK, his associates made sure she had no identification.

Poisoned her before he left, she made the call to Sally on the 1st I just don't see her not mentioning that she maybe had a touch of the flu or feeling a little unwell, if she was under someone's control, I don't see them allowing her to make a call, it has no purpose, she was supposedly on a flight back home if we believe AH used a stand in as proof of life, the call doesn't play into AH's plan - Just my opinion

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

So he would have to persuade M that they are going deep undercover / off radar for some reason or another and she should let S know not to expect to hear from her for a few weeks.

He already knows he's booked his flight back to Australia.

He rents a double room in a hotel (where? UK or Amsterdam?) under some other name and makes sure that M is heavily dosed with a highly poisonous toxin. We have seen from another recent case that death cap mushrooms will usually kill within a couple of days after a bout of vomiting and diarrhea (sp?) then the liver shuts down.

Then M would have been found passed away inside a hotel in a mystery name? Possibly assumed natural causes? Or a suicide? Possibly with zero paperwork? A bit like Jennifer Fairgate (except she was shot dead). Would it become a huge mystery or do sometimes officials and authorities assume a very sad ending to life of a lonely woman and deal with it and nobody ever really wonders much? Are we even certain that in these circs a Jane Doe would be logged?

JMO MOO

 

[KiwiNZ]

thank you mishy66 for the timeline !!

31 July 1997 - AH flies back into Australia from Amsterdam - *Richard Westbury (returned to Aus on his illegal passport )*

1 August - the day MB calls SL , claiming to be in Tunbridge Wells

2 August - passenger card for Florabella R arrives into Australia, originating out of Amsterdam


If this was Marion, she was only 2 days behind him, AH plays his role right up until he disappears, his victims take a while to cotton on something is wrong. Returning so close behind him and the booking at the novotel, no contact with her family or police, says to me if she did come back it was because that was his plan and he needed her physically in Aus, not because she was on to him - IMO